Comair Pilots - can you tell us....

[N813CA]

PCL_128 vbmenu_register("postmenu_547204", true);

How the He_L do you know Comair wasn't going to furlough if we didn't do this. Everyone in Comair's management said Comair was going to loose their 70 seat aircraft if they didn't. That would be 350 pilots on the street. Comair didn't hurt the industry. Everyone else did after Comair got their contract. No one else step up to the plate and got a better contract. You can only be the "highest" paid for so long, and watch every airplane go to a different regional before you have to do something to insure some kind of job security.

 

[Typhoon1244]

My $0.02:

(1) I don't think the Comair LOA is the disaster a lot of people think it is. Unless I'm very much mistaken, even after the freeze, they've got a better contract than we do.

(2) The quickest way for management to screw us over is to keep us at each others throats. If we don't stand behind Comair's pilots on this, how likely are they to stand behind us (ASA) when it's our turn?

 

[~~~^~~~]

....how likely are they to stand behind us (ASA) when it's our turn?

It is our turn. 0% probability of a Comair pilot standing behind anyone.

 

[h25b]

Glad to see that I've been having such and effect on you that you mention me even in the threads that I haven't been participating in. It's always nice to be noticed. At least get it right though. My "daddy" is not a Delta pilot. I'm the first pilot in my family. I just happen to have grown up in the Atlanta area and know many Delta and former EAL pilots.

Surplus, what you and 60% of the CMR pilots have decided does not just affect the CMR pilots, it affects everyone in the industry. All of us will suffer for your selfishness. You and 60% of the CMR pilot group are nothing but whores. You saw visions of shiny new airplanes in your head and gave up money that you had already fought hard for just to get those planes. At least the pilots of Mesa and Mesaba had alter-ego airlines breathing down their necks to make them take such disappointing contracts, but you had no such excuse. This wasn't about saving your jobs, this was about growth. Pathetic.

As for your claim that we have "bragged" about invading Mesaba "territory", you couldn't be more wrong about me. I haven't bragged about any such thing. You know my view of that Surplus: Mesaba doesn't have any territory and neither does Pinnacle. All the flying and territory belongs to Northwest and the NWA pilots. The NWA pilots decide what flying is allowed to go to us, and the Northwest management decides who it goes to. Nothing for us at Pinnacle to brag about. It's completely out of our hands. I can see that you RJDC supporters still can't understand these basic concepts. Pretty sad really.

The regionals board is enough to make you want to go run through the house with scissors these days. The constant debate over who the whore of the month is... Getting ridiculous people!!!!!!!

 

[328dude]

The regionals board is enough to make you want to go run through the house with scissors these days. The constant debate over who the whore of the month is... Getting ridiculous people!!!!!!!

Agreed. Let's just all agree we are all whores and our own personal agenda's are our own business.

 

[doh]

1. What economic data was provided to you for consideration in ratifying you concessions?
2. What analysis of this data was provided you by ALPA?
3. Some of you have written that management has now endorsed the viability of Comair's contract & cost structure at ASA. How did you reach this conclusion?
4. If cost savings was an issue, was a merger and consolidation of redundancies a consideration?
5. Any prognostications for the future?
6. Do you think that management will return for more concessions?
7. What do you expect the changes will be now that unity between the Comair and ASA pilots has been lost?

1 and 2 belong together. ALPA's financial analysts and the MEC signed confidentiality agreements, just like NWA did in 93 when they gave concessions. They saw the data, the members don't get to see the specifics. Some of you know I was a flight attendant at NWA and it was no fun to vote with out specifics. My pilot friends felt the same way, but there you go. The analysis of the data was what I expected. Delta is losing money, we are owned by them and they can show profit and loss at will. They were showing bigger losses (to get bigger concessions from the Delta pilots) at big D and carrying some of our costs over there. Now they are showing the costs on our books so we are not profitable. What, you didn't expect that?
3 I never said that but if that cost structure is acceptable to grow us, maybe you should present yor management with that. I never said it so what do I know?
4 Oh don't be niave! What and end the whipsaw! We were the only ones who ever considered a merger scenario.
I'll answer 6 out of order. No, they will sell us and the new management will ask for more concessions. Management always asks for concessions. Go read the history books!
5 and 7 belong together too. If ASA gets a better contract than we have you will admit that we didn't screw you over. If you cave, then you will blame us. Since we make about 8% more right now than any other 50 drivers except maybe XJT ( I don't know yet how the profit sharing will work out, but hope you guys make more than us because it will help us in section 6 in '07!) every one will hopefully catch up. That would also help us in section 6 in '07. Since we make about $10-$12 more than any one else flying the 70, there is an incentive for you to catch up! I have left the Horizon guys out of my calculations because Alaska is after them for concessions right now and we don't know where that's going yet. It is good to be them now though! Look it up. ASA has a ways to go to catch up to our concessions. We do support you while at the same time we have to support ourelves too. Oh, and lastly, as you see from my tag line, I voted NO, but I'm not letting that rot my life. How's that for ad libbing?

 

[atrdriver]

I've never seen any of you bitc_hing about it when you took our base, got assigned our airplanes, or got new flying that we didn't get or took your own brand of concessions. I didn't see or hear any of your overnight captains complaining about the money you got for yourselves, by not protecting the wages of your own First Officers. I didn't see you complaining or doing anything about giveing your seniority and your left seats or right seats to the pilots of another airline in exchange for more jets. I never saw or heard you complaining for one second about undercutting our 70-seat wages or about your decision to fly 99 seat jets for 50-seat wage rates. I didn't hear any of you complaining about sacred "mainline" pilots agreeing to fly 70-seat jets for less than 60 dollars in the left seat.

I didn't see a lot of CMR pilots too upset when you came into ATL and took about 30% of our flying. All I heard from the CMR pilots was that they could do it better and they wouldn't be there if we (ASA) could have handled it ourselves. Now DAL sends us to CVG and you're all upset about it. WAAAAH. BTW, when you're in ATL it's CATERING, not commissary.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

I didn't see a lot of CMR pilots too upset when you came into ATL and took about 30% of our flying. All I heard from the CMR pilots was that they could do it better and they wouldn't be there if we (ASA) could have handled it ourselves. Now DAL sends us to CVG and you're all upset about it. WAAAAH...

Really? Those are rather broad statements, don't you think? ASA has been flying into CVG off and on for several years now including your venerable ATR 72 (nice ride BTW). I've never seen any resentment directed towards ASA pilots now or back then. Which of us is "all upset about it?"

 

[Broke in CVG]

How the He_L do you know Comair wasn't going to furlough if we didn't do this. Everyone in Comair's management said Comair was going to loose their 70 seat aircraft if they didn't. That would be 350 pilots on the street.

Actually management did not make this statement. Fred showed us the carrot and hid the stick behind his back. He let people like you use their imagination to create your own doomsday predictions. I talked to him directly in ops and he said that if the LOA was voted down then they would cross that bridge when they came to it. All I ever heard out of his mouth was "there were no guarantees if the LOA failed."

Then Chicken Littles ran around and made up their own senarios... They didn't have to threaten loss of aircraft, you did it for them.

 

[sleepy]

My $0.02:

(1) I don't think the Comair LOA is the disaster a lot of people think it is. Unless I'm very much mistaken, even after the freeze, they've got a better contract than we do.

(2) The quickest way for management to screw us over is to keep us at each others throats. If we don't stand behind Comair's pilots on this, how likely are they to stand behind us (ASA) when it's our turn?

I would be a little nervous if a Comair pilot was standing behind me, and I was an ASA pilot. There is just no telling what they might try to put where.

 

[doh]

Sleepster,

So by your logic, Comair pilots should be nervous when Chataqua, Skywest, Mesaba, Mesa and possibly Express Jet pilots are behind us? Hmm, I think I'll call flame bait on that one!

 

[wrigley23]

My $0.02:

(1) I don't think the Comair LOA is the disaster a lot of people think it is. Unless I'm very much mistaken, even after the freeze, they've got a better contract than we do.

(2) The quickest way for management to screw us over is to keep us at each others throats. If we don't stand behind Comair's pilots on this, how likely are they to stand behind us (ASA) when it's our turn?

Finally, someone with some common sense who has taken the emotion out of this issue and looked at it with a level head. Thank you Typhoon.

 

[skyslug]

I didn't see a lot of CMR pilots too upset when you came into ATL and took about 30% of our flying. All I heard from the CMR pilots was that they could do it better and they wouldn't be there if we (ASA) could have handled it ourselves. Now DAL sends us to CVG and you're all upset about it. WAAAAH. BTW, when you're in ATL it's CATERING, not commissary.

ATR driver, Comair NEVER took 30% of your flying!! IF Comair had in deed "taken" 30% (meaning you LOST 30%) you guys would have furloughed. You didn't furlough. Instead ASA shifted their flying to DFW. Unfortunately DFW is now closed (with a lot of displaced guys) and in it's place SLC opened up.

AS for ASA flying into CVG, I personally (and just about 99.999% of those I fly with) am happy you're here . I've yet to meet or even hear of someone upset about ASA coming to CVG. Again, we've never had any reservations about you guys flying here. If you open a base (which I suspect you will eventually) here, you will still always be welcomed! You are not taking our flying as our flying has shifted to JFK and more of the east coast (ugh!).

AS for the Catering vs Commissary debate....just words. Who cares...they both start with a C and involve food and drinks! The same could be argued about CVG "exceptions" vs "ops" call. Just words...they both get the job done!

 

[surplus1]

Glad to see that I've been having such and effect on you that you mention me even in the threads that I haven't been participating in. It's always nice to be noticed. At least get it right though. My "daddy" is not a Delta pilot. I'm the first pilot in my family. I just happen to have grown up in the Atlanta area and know many Delta and former EAL pilots.

Since I didn't mention your handle and I don't know your name, I wonder how you "guessed" I wasl talking about you? In any case, if the shoe fits wear it. My guess is you have a lot of Delta "daddy's" among the furloughed instructors at your airline. We don't have that privilege for two reasons: 1) our management figured out they couldn't teach us what they don't know themselves; 2) our contract does not permit the use of sim instructors that ate not on the CMR list or retired from the CMR list. I also guess that you "know" the EAL scabs than run your former training camp. Do you know any rEAL pilots? Are you even old enough?

Just so you'll know a NW 747 pilot once spoke to me. I got so excited that I had to run to the "john". Then he came in and stood next to me and I realized that mine was bigger than his. I've been disillusioned ever since. Woe is me. I won't mention the Delta pilots I know, because they're a very different breed than the new generation that writes in these forums. They date from the time when being a Dela pilot also meant you were a gentleman, i.e., something more than a blowhard. Too bad they'll soon be outnumberd by the "new" breed of bad genes.

Surplus, what you and 60% of the CMR pilots have decided does not just affect the CMR pilots, it affects everyone in the industry. All of us will suffer for your selfishness.

How did Comair pilots suddenly become so important that we now affect everyone in the industry? Just yesterday you all were telling us that we were just "arrogant a$$holes" and now we're affecting everyone? How are you going to suffer because we gave up a pay raise that we earned for ourselves? Are you saying that you don't have the courage to stand up for yourselves without hanging on to our coatails? It sure sounds like it. How did you manage to develop such low self-esteem? Is that our fault too?

This wasn't about saving your jobs, this was about growth. Pathetic.

It comes as no surprise to me that you and others know more about what this was about than do Comair pilots. You all always seem to know better what is best for us. I guess we have the bad habit of deciding for ourselves what Comair pilots think is best for Comair pilots. But, you know what, I'm sure glad we can decide for ourselves instead of having you decide for us.

As for your claim that we have "bragged" about invading Mesaba "territory", you couldn't be more wrong about me. I haven't bragged about any such thing. You know my view of that Surplus: Mesaba doesn't have any territory and neither does Pinnacle. All the flying and territory belongs to Northwest and the NWA pilots. The NWA pilots decide what flying is allowed to go to us, and the Northwest management decides who it goes to. Nothing for us at Pinnacle to brag about. It's completely out of our hands. I can see that you RJDC supporters still can't understand these basic concepts. Pretty sad really.

You're right, I do know your view and you know mine. Let's just say that on that subject, never the twain shall meet. Apparently a whole lot of things are "out of your hands". Things like the responsibility for your own contract and your own future. According to you, the first is apparently in the hands of Comair pilots, and the second in the hands of the Northwest pilots. If that is the case, about all I can say is you don't amount to much of anything.

You call us whores, but at least we're working without pimps. I guess you all are just "escorts". Comair pilots have to pimp for your contract and NW pilots pimp for your living. Tell me, do you even get to keep the tips or do the NW pilots get a cut of that too?

You should take your theory of who "owns" all the flying up to DW. I'm sure he'll put his arm around your shoulder, pat you on the back and tell you what a smart little boy you are. Your so-called friends at NW just screwed both MSA and PCL, but you're still sucking at their trough like piglets. I find that far more disgusting than you find our wage freeze.

Fortunately, in our system none of the flying "belongs" to the Delta pilots. It all belongs to Delta Air Lines, Inc. Delta Air Lines decides who gets what part of it and when, not the Delta pilots and not the ALPA. That suits me just fine. I wish you luck with your system of belief, but I don't mind at all telling you that I want no part of it.

Like they say, "different strokes for different folks". We're happy to make our own luck. You can let whomever make your decisions for you, but we ain't into that. I hope you understand. If you don't well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I won't hate you for doing what you think is best for you.

 

[surplus1]

ASA pilots, Comair pilots are not against you. We continue to support your efforts just as we did before and will support whatever decisions you make for yourselves.

I think that some of you seem to be confusing support with responisbility. Comair pilots are not responsible for ASA pilots, but we do support you and wish you nothing but the best. There is a difference.

I will echo Skyslug and tell you that you are welcome in CVG, even if some of you feel that we are not welcome in ATL. Surely you know that we did not ask to be sent to ATL. I think you also know that the destinations of CMR are not determined by CMR pilots.

I don't think you will find that many of us were eager to fly into or out of Atlanta. That has nothing to do with ASA pilots. It is not your fault that ATL was an operational disaster and it is not our fault either. We hope you will be happier flying to CVG than we were flying to ATL.

 

[PCL_128]

My guess is you have a lot of Delta "daddy's" among the furloughed instructors at your airline. We don't have that privilege for two reasons: 1) our management figured out they couldn't teach us what they don't know themselves; 2) our contract does not permit the use of sim instructors that ate not on the CMR list or retired from the CMR list. I also guess that you "know" the EAL scabs than run your former training camp. Do you know any rEAL pilots? Are you even old enough?

Yes, we do have several furloughed DAL pilots in the training dept at PCL. They are some of the best instructors we have. In fact, a few of them are former ASA and CMR pilots that went to DAL the old-fashioned way (you know, they got hired instead of filing a lawsuit attempting a seniority grab). As for the rEAL pilots, yes I do know several of them. I also met a few SCABs at GIA, and I have zero respect for them.

Too bad they'll soon be outnumberd by the "new" breed of bad genes.

You mean the CMR whores?

How did Comair pilots suddenly become so important that we now affect everyone in the industry? Just yesterday you all were telling us that we were just "arrogant a$$holes" and now we're affecting everyone? How are you going to suffer because we gave up a pay raise that we earned for ourselves? Are you saying that you don't have the courage to stand up for yourselves without hanging on to our coatails? It sure sounds like it. How did you manage to develop such low self-esteem? Is that our fault too?

Well, you are still arrogant a$$holes, but that doesn't change the fact that what you do affects the entire industry. Do you honestly think that anyone can get an industry leading contract now that you've admitted that you're overpayed? The ASA and PCL management teams are salivating now that you've sold us all down the river. Do you even know what pattern bargaining is? No wonder you support the RJDC when you don't even understand these basic collective bargaining concepts.

Fortunately, in our system none of the flying "belongs" to the Delta pilots. It all belongs to Delta Air Lines, Inc. Delta Air Lines decides who gets what part of it and when, not the Delta pilots and not the ALPA. That suits me just fine. I wish you luck with your system of belief, but I don't mind at all telling you that I want no part of it.

You still don't get it Surplus. Yes, the flying is all owned by Delta, but the DAL PWA is the agreement that Delta is bound to follow. The DAL PWA has scope language that must be adhered to by management. That PWA allows certain flying to go to you, and it prohibits other flying from going to you. At any time the DAL pilots can negotiate a new scope section if they are willing to expend the negotiating capital. You have no say over that whether you like it or not. I know I've told you this multiple times, but I'll say it again: YOU DON'T WORK FOR DELTA!!! You have no right to negotiate with a company that you don't work for. The only pilot group that Delta can negotiate with is the DAL pilot group. You aren't a part of it, so either earn a spot there when they start hiring again, or just get over it.

 

[acarpe3448]

I would be careful how you talk to Surplus or he will write a 15 page letter to
1) ALPA national wanting $1,000,000,000 in damages
2) His attorney wanting to file a personal suit against you
3) USA Today explaining how he is a hero for their 89 day strike
4) Flightinfo.com to explain how Comair are legends in the airline industry

 

[PCL_128]

I would be careful how you talk to Surplus or he will write a 15 page letter

15 pages? Wow, has Surplus learned how to condense his letters?

 

[737 Pylt]

My guess is you have a lot of Delta "daddy's" among the furloughed instructors at your airline.

With a statement like that it just proves you're a classless pig!

I won't mention the Delta pilots I know, because they're a very different breed than the new generation that writes in these forums. They date from the time when being a Dela pilot also meant you were a gentleman, i.e., something more than a blowhard. Too bad they'll soon be outnumberd by the "new" breed of bad genes.

Well one things for sure. The same classless backstabbing bunch at CMR has and always will be the same. This from the spokesperson surplus!

How did Comair pilots suddenly become so important that we now affect everyone in the industry? Just yesterday you all were telling us that we were just "arrogant a$$holes" and now we're affecting everyone? How are you going to suffer because we gave up a pay raise that we earned for ourselves? Are you saying that you don't have the courage to stand up for yourselves without hanging on to our coatails? It sure sounds like it. How did you manage to develop such low self-esteem? Is that our fault too?

Shouldn't you be thumping you chest when you're saying this??
You are so pathetic, its almost shameful!

It comes as no surprise to me that you and others know more about what this was about than do Comair pilots. You all always seem to know better what is best for us. I guess we have the bad habit of deciding for ourselves what Comair pilots think is best for Comair pilots. But, you know what, I'm sure glad we can decide for ourselves instead of having you decide for us.

So when the evil DAL pilots took concessions, it was harmful to the CMR pilots, but when the CMR pilots take concessions, its just looking out for themselves?!?
You are a moron!


I would respond to the rest of your jibberish, but it just isn't worth the time. Maybe you should stick to what you're good at. Slamming the rest of the industry and sounding rediculous!
737

 

[av8tor4239]

I will echo Skyslug and tell you that you are welcome in CVG, even if some of you feel that we are not welcome in ATL. Surely you know that we did not ask to be sent to ATL. I think you also know that the destinations of CMR are not determined by CMR pilots.

Finally in Defending your YES vote you put your foot in your mouth... Not only are "your destinations not determined by CMR pilots", but your growth, furlough protections, and whatever else you voted in with the LOA are not protected.. your management has written in loopholes to hose you and like has been said on this board a million times will bargin another concession out of you soon!

 

[atrdriver]

Really? Those are rather broad statements, don't you think? ASA has been flying into CVG off and on for several years now including your venerable ATR 72 (nice ride BTW). I've never seen any resentment directed towards ASA pilots now or back then. Which of us is "all upset about it?"

I guess you need to read the first line of Surplus that was quoted in my post. As far as flying the ATR up there was concerned the CMR pilots were very nice to us, and we enjoyed the experience, although to a man we felt bad for taking flying that had been yours to begin with.

 

[chperplt]

Give it a rest and get back to work. You have your own fight to worry about.

 

[737 Pylt]

Give it a rest and get back to work. You have your own fight to worry about.

And thanks to the CMR pilots, it just got tougher!
737

 

[FlyComAirJets]

As far as flying the ATR up there was concerned the CMR pilots were very nice to us, and we enjoyed the experience, although to a man we felt bad for taking flying that had been yours to begin with.

I feel the same way 'bout ATL. That's why I bid against trips through there and stay out of the 70 seater.

 

[surplus1]

First let's get one thing clear. Comair pilots never appointed me as their spokesperson and I don't presume to be. It is our custom to speak for ourselves as individuals. I speak for myself and my opinions are my own. Some CMR pilots may agree with me, others may not.

Any differences Comair pilots may have with each other or with me we will settle with each other. Your input is both unnecessary and irrelevant to that process. You are redundant.

So when the evil DAL pilots took concessions, it was harmful to the CMR pilots, but when the CMR pilots take concessions, its just looking out for themselves?!?
You are a moron!

Fortunately for me, whether or not I'm a moron can't be determined by you. I'll not bother to tell you what I think of you, it's irrelevant. I don't find your name calling intimidating at all, it simply speaks to who you are so have at it.

I never said that Delta pilots were evil. I did say that most Delta pilots are gentlemen, and that some of you come from a bad gene pool. You can decide for yourself where you fit into that.

Also, I never said that the concessions granted by Delta pilots were harmful to Comair. You appear to have trouble with reading comprhension as well as expressing your views without resorting to personal insults.

A majority of Delta pilots approved the concessions because they believed them to be the the right decision at that time. Yes, they were protecting their interests and I agree with them. I have never said otherwise nor have I criticized Delta pilots for taking concessions. I'm not a Delta pilot and I have no right to decide what concessions Delta pilots should or should not take.

A majority of CMR pilots have agreed to this concession for the very same reason, we believe it is best for us at this time. I agree with them as well. You are not a Comair pilot and you have no right to decide what concessions Comair pilots should or should not take.

You seem unable or unwilling to grasp that. As to whether or not you choose to reply, that's your call. Do as you wish.

 

[surplus1]

Finally in Defending your YES vote you put your foot in your mouth...

NOTAM - Surplus1 foot firmly on ground.

As I think I told you before, a "defense" of my yes vote is only required when it is challenged by another Comair pilot. Since you are not a Comair pilot, no "defense" is necessary.

I listen to your views. If you attack Comair pilots, I may respond but do not interpret that to be a defense of our vote for it is not. It is merely a contradiction to the views you choose to express.

If and when the company comes back for more concessions, Comair pilots will again decide what we should do about it at that time, just as we did this time. We will cross that bridge when we get to it.

What you and others must understand is pretty simple. No matter what you think of our decision, it is still our decision and you cannot make it for us.

A majority of Comair pilots have already made the decision on this issue that we deemed appropriate. No amount of rhetoric or name calling is going to change it.

If you wish to improve on what we have done you may do so and we will support you. If you make a different decision we will still support you. No one has to live with our decison except us. You are free to make whatever decision your group wants to make and to negotiate any agreement you choose for yourselves.

I'm pretty sure that all of us wish you the very best.

 

[Bizjet]

NOTAM - Surplus1 foot firmly on ground.

As I think I told you before, a "defense" of my yes vote is only required when it is challenged by another Comair pilot. Since you are not a Comair pilot, no "defense" is necessary.

Retired pilots get to vote? How interesting.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Some past quotes from surplus1

Your "different car" is to little to late. You SKYW folks started the regional concession trend with your last unnecessary agreement and your willingness to fly everything for the same rate. I remember your telling us that you would fix it all in 18 months and get a proper rate for your bigger airplanes. You were dreaming then and you're dreaming now.

You deserve to reap what you have sown. It is just unfortunate that you negatively affected so many other carriers. I have little doubt that you'll be applauding with glee if your Company succeeds in taking some or all of AWAC's flying.

As long as you don't lose the jobs you already have, selling your souls for potential growth that is almost never guaranteed is, IMO, foolish over the long term. The "young" are often willing to give up their QOL for a few extra bucks and the promise of growth. That's because they are not convinced that they won't be flying for Delta mainline next month or anytime soon, or they would love to fly for JBlue because it has "big" airplanes. The more seasoned realize that more money glitters in the begining, but QOL once given up is almost impossible to recover. It is the job of your leadership to achieve balance between the two positions and get everybody on the same page.

It is true that you do not have any 50-seat jets. It is also true that lot's of other ALPA carriers and non-ALPA carriers do. The fact is the rates you propose to agree to will put increasingly intense pressure on the contracts of the industry leaders, and will probably force the two carriers now in negotiations (ASA and COEX) to make lesser agreements than they otherwise could. When it's PCL's turn, what they can do will likewise be limited by what you are doing.

Your Avro rates, will also put intense pressure on all of the carriers operating 70-seat jets, and may very well force concessions on those that have not already made them.

I concede that you haven't "lowered the bar" because you have not agreed to fly for less than Mesa, but to say that you are raising it or holding the line, is a monumental exaggeration on the part of your leaders and the national union.

Think about this. PSA is a USAirGroup subsidiary. Another USAG subsidiary (USAirways/Mid Atlantic) has already "agreed" to rates for 70-seat jets. If I'm not mistaken, those agreed rates match the rates at American Eagle. It is therefore unlikely that a rate negotiated by PSA will be any higher.

I hope that Master's paper is in a non-aviation field. By the time this is over (at the rate we're going) there aren't going to be any "high paying career jobs" and the low paying regional jobs will be as worthless as a gig on the Tyson Foods chicken plucking production line. The PIC we are rushing over the precipice to acquire won't get you to "the show" for the "run" will be over and the theatre closed and the only thing "playing" will be re-runs of class B "shows" in back alley theatres. What you gain won't be worth the gaining.

There seems to be little doubt that the race to the bottom will be won by all of us. The wisdom of the hour sure doesn't appear to reside in a majority of regional pilot groups and failing mega airlines. Aspiring to AirTran or Jet Blue used to be for those who "didn't quite make it", now it seems to have become the glory standard.

WE are in this together!

The recent contracts signed by SKYW, ACA, ARW, CHQ, et al, have indeed created negative pressure on the CMR contract and have adversely affected the bargaining at ASA (not to mention COEX and Mesaba). Likewise, there are far greater pressures on the Delta PWA, created by actions at AA, UAL, NWA, U, and the already low scales at CAL. Additional pressure on the Delta PWA comes from JBlue, AirTran and to a lesser degree SWA.

Compared to the differential between DAL and AA, UAL, and U, the spread between CMR and other regionals is relatively small. Notice that in the case of the regional carriers I did not mention Mesa. That is because their contract has always been so far below every other regional that it can be ignored, unless of course other regional carriers do not choose to make Mesa the standard they seek to match. I also did not mention carriers like CAL and AWA for the same reason. Why do we need to emulate the aberrations?

With all due respect, either the actions of one pilot group affects all others, or they don't. You can't have it both ways as you are trying to do now. Something about living in a glass house and throwing stones comes to mind.......

AF

 

[Terry Hunter]

Wow

An excellent assortment of collected evidence.

 

[FL000]

I've never given credence to anything Surplus had to say...ever. Arcticflier, your post is a crystalization of why.