Comair Paycuts!!!

[av8erab]

5th year pay is basically what I make at ASA.

 

[J32driver]

Those pay rates are a couple bucks an hour less than what I make to fly a 50 seater at Air Willy... after UAL stuffed the concessions down our throats.

 

[RJ Bum]

Not to mention productivity going to sh1t. The memo that just came out warned us of fewer days off and line value going down to 76 hrs. a month. These two things alone mean a substantial hit in pay and QOL. Now add these new pay scales to the mix, Ouch. All this for an airline that WAS profitable going into bankruptcy.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

These posts are funny.

After Comair is undercut by numerous airlines recently, the Comair pilots take a pay freeze in some hope of having a future. Everyone calls us growth whores. Now, in bankruptcy, with no leverage, all the same people are telling us to, "Say NO. Take a stand. Shut your airline down. Don't do this to us. We'll all be screwed if Comair pilots don't take a stand for us."

Funny.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Boys, Boys,

You know ole J.C. and Corey are going to drag you guys over to the Radisson and give ya the "sermon on the mount" speech. Everybody is going to cry, but J.C. will tell you everything is going to be OK under his leadership, something like this:

"We've seen good days and dark days men, nows the time for us to unify and roll up our sleeves, we'll be back, BIGGER, BETTER, and STRONGER, now who's with me!"

Fifty bucks says when this is all over, if CMR is still standing; Lawson will be too.

 

[RJ Bum]

"We've seen good days and dark days men, nows the time for us to unify and roll up our sleeves, we'll be back, BIGGER, BETTER, and STRONGER, now who's with me!"

:laugh:

 

["GO AROUND"]

Hey Mike Don't do it for me. Add me to the list that think those people should fall on their own sword. Look out for number one cause noone else will. We're all screwed regardless if this is the way the industry is going.

 

[StaySeated]

From the recent Q&A

I am a first officer. This is my fourth airline and my third bankruptcy. I have been furloughed three times in my six years of flying. I am on a pay freeze and my story is not unique. Why should I and other pilots like me have to endure another pay reduction?
A. I realize that these pay reductions are not easy for any of us, and they have a significant impact our lifestyles and what we have become accustomed to. But, as I have said, we have no choice but to get our costs in line with what Delta is willing to pay us to fly. Our employment costs are certainly a big part of that equation. Without adjustments to these costs, we will not get through restructuring as a going concern. That being said, I also understand that everyone as individuals has to make their own personal decisions about their tolerance for these pay reductions and whether employment at Comair is a value proposition that still makes sense for them.

In other words, fred is telling you to go fuk yourself. Don't go away mad, just go away.

"What delta is willing to pay us to fly". Oh god, I love it when they pull this angle.

This is not a negotiation. This is a take it or leave it shock treatment in an effort to make as many senior people jump ship as possible. They know that for every one senior pilot that leaves there is three fools ready to take their place. If a four year FO leaves and a new hire takes his place they have effectively acheived a four year pay freeze in that position. Multiply that by the number of cola's, voluntary furloughs, and straight up "blow me"s that are about to happen and you are talking about some serious cost savings. They are actually training new hires because they know people are getting the f out of dodge.

The only thing missing from this crock of sh1t is more of freds big words. He sure does love the "I know more than you silly pilots" big words. I think he named his first child Arbitrage. That is one of his favorites. Pro rata, mmmmm pro rata.

Good luck to all, for those that stay I hope that it works out for the best and for those that have left or are leaving I wish you the best in your new endeavors. Quite frankly, comair doesn't deserve any of you.

 

[surplus1]

If we say NO, Delta will go to the judge and seek to cancel our contract. The judge may agree and the judge may not.

If we say Yes, there is no guarantee of anything. Delta will simply continue to down size us and give our flying to other carriers.

So, how are we better off by agreeing to what they want than we are by forcing them to go to the judge? What is the real difference between the two?

That's the question we have to answer. Will they file 1113(c) against Comair? Probably yes. That still leaves time to negotiate and if we do not agree, then they ask the judge to cancel our contract. So what? Doesn't this blackmail have the same effect?

 

[surplus1]

You forgot to mention how its all the Delta mainline pilots' fault!
737

I'm sorry, it's the Delta pilots' fault. There, do you fell better now?

 

[jetflyer]

How long after the vote, would the judge decide whether to cancel our contract?

Things happen pretty fast when they want to take our pay away huh?

---What is the history of other union groups saying "NO"?
Do judges usually just assign what the company wanted, MORE pay cuts OR LESS?

I heard the flight attendants are being asked for an average of about an $8,000 pay cut!! I predict the flight attendants vote goes down 5-95%! Those girls are going to be just as pissed or more so than the pilots.

I predict both the pilots and flight attendants agreements will be in front of the judge. It will be interesting.

Jet

 

[KingAirKiddo]

If we say NO, Delta will go to the judge and seek to cancel our contract. The judge may agree and the judge may not.

If we say Yes, there is no guarantee of anything. Delta will simply continue to down size us and give our flying to other carriers.

So, how are we better off by agreeing to what they want than we are by forcing them to go to the judge? What is the real difference between the two?

That's the question we have to answer. Will they file 1113(c) against Comair? Probably yes. That still leaves time to negotiate and if we do not agree, then they ask the judge to cancel our contract. So what? Doesn't this blackmail have the same effect?[/quo

 

[surplus1]

Kiddo,

What were you intending to say?

 

[whymeworry?]

If we say NO, Delta will go to the judge and seek to cancel our contract. The judge may agree and the judge may not.

If we say Yes, there is no guarantee of anything. Delta will simply continue to down size us and give our flying to other carriers.

So, how are we better off by agreeing to what they want than we are by forcing them to go to the judge? What is the real difference between the two?

That's the question we have to answer. Will they file 1113(c) against Comair? Probably yes. That still leaves time to negotiate and if we do not agree, then they ask the judge to cancel our contract. So what? Doesn't this blackmail have the same effect?[/quo

All of this capitulation of what to do, what not to do is just another example of the pathetic state of our industry. Everyone is so pissed off about the complete walmartization of our profession but nobody seems willing to do anything about it. Fact is, DAL and NW mgmt went Ch11 in order to secure a better future for management... which is why they filed BEFORE Oct 17th. Furthermore, You guys and gals gave at the office with a pay freeze, the DAL pilots gave up 32% and the NW pilots first gave a freeze then concessions. Y'all (those being told to "take it or leave it" don't seem willing to say enough is enough. The bancruptcy process should only be used to get creditors in line with market rates, not to subrogate pilot contracts. But management sees ALPA as a complete joke, which it indeed is, and therefore is running with free reign to outright cancel contracts.

There are thousands of GOOD JOBS out there. There IS life beyond aviation, and a good life at that. If the flying club younglings want to come in and take over our profession for $50K a year, have at it. This job is hardly worth it at a $200K max. We are the only profession that will indefinitely miss the most vaulable moments in our kids lives because we're destined to living out of a suitcase half the month. Now managements think they can fill our cockpits with flight school grads who are foaming at the mouth with SJS, well... have at it.

And to the young guys coming in. Spare me the lecture about how you all need a fair shot, or about how my rhetoric is discriminating. I spent 7 years doing IOE at the regionals and if I had a nickal for every new guy who told me he'd do this job for free if they insisted, well, I wouldn't need to make a living flying airplanes any longer. By their 12 month anniversary date they're just as pissed off at our prospects as everyone else. Sure I was young once to, and I equally suffered from SJS when I left the flight school life, but I would have never continued pursuit of this profession if I thought I wouldn't be able to life a nice life. Nor would I ever even contemplate flying an airplane for free... any airplane.

If CMR pilots accept these 100 seat rates, the entire industry (read: majors and regionals) will eventually follow suit. We'll have senior wide-body captains making a MAXIMUM of $100k a year. Now that may sound just dandy to the average jet-school grad with 300hrs TT, hence there will be absolutely no shortage of new pilots willing to fill the shoes of those who leave the business, but that kind of living just won't cut it in this country.

It is pathetic to see ALPA National as impotent as it has ever been. It is equally tragic to see the NW MEC offer up their pilots profession on a platter to the company. DAL pilots will be next and so long as no pilot group is willing to "not rock the boat" our profession will continue to be decimated and any damage we do will take at least 20 years to recover from.

I must say, however, the Comair guys seem to have more gnads than the NW pilots, if the comments on these boards are any indication of the group. Imagine that, RJ pilots teaching the major guys a thing or two about growing a pair.

Remember, if there ain't any pilots to fly the birds, the judges will have absolutely no say in the matter. And the creditors will be screaming at managment to get their planes in the air again. There is only so much bloodshed that labor can take, isn't there?

 

[RCA]

I have been with CMR one year, and my feeling is if they want to shut this billion dollar company down over 17.3 million in pilot concesions go ahead. I would like to see how delta could realocate 173 airplanes.