Comair Part Of Delta Cuts

[StaySeated]

Someone help me out, how did the three year pay/longevity freeze save jobs? I am not trying to be a d1ck here, I just can't come up with any logical reason behind this statement. Do some people really think that this is the low water mark? You don't have to read between any lines, comair labor has artificially become more expensive overnight due to the reduction in flying. The loa was the first nibble. The new casm (you know they have pretty charts ready to parade around the crew room) will be crammed down everyone's throats for the next few weeks. They will take another bite prior to bk in a "last ditch effort to avoid the judge". Once they get that they will 1113 your arse and whatever is left of work rules and pay will also go bye bye. Airline management looks at negotiations/labor cuts as an ultra marathon, and they always win. We are just too short-sighted, greedy, and forgetful to reallize that they have plan. They make a small move, we attack each other. They make another move, repeat...

 

[DDpaysoff]

I am curious bucause I am low enough i might be gone, but it was my understanding that if the planes werent here in time the LOA would become void. Does that mean the furlough protection too?

Now, if Delta files for protection under the ch. 11 code of bankruptcy they could go in front of a judge and try to amend the LOA, however, by the time all this got done, there will be enough attrition between now and then that the company would not need to furlough.

However, in ch. 11 anything is possible, they could just furlough right away and make us grieve it and go through a long arbitration period while the furloughee is on the street unsure about his/her future.

I don't think it is in the best interest of the company to violate the LOA. They would boost us back up to payrates that are not even in the same ballpark as most of our competitors along with in increased casm from the loss of a half hour a day per a/c in utilization would make Comair's costs unbearable. If this were to happen, Delta would likely have no choice but to sell a/c to try to get the utilization up and casm's back down. This is one reason why I don't see us getting our payscale back regardless. In this case they could furlough all they want, sell the a/c and the and possibly the certificate and this airline will look nothing like it does now if it even exists.

That's why I am saying it is nice to have this LOA, otherwise they could have done whatever they wanted to with us. Now, they would have to wait a year and a half or file ch. 11 to violate it. That gives us a little leverage in protecting our jobs, which is better than nothing.

We gave Fred what he asked for. Now, it is up to him to win the growth and protect the airline. I can't see myself, for one, voting for a paycut in the future. We gave delta some help, and this is what we get in return. Good luck getting more....If they even ask, they must truly think we are fools.

These decisions were made and announced today to prepare delta for ch. 11, as if this were a post filing announcement they would have to go in front of a judge and waste resources on lawyers and all that. Don't be mistaken, it is still very likely that delta will file, they are just getting a head start on their restructuring. In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were forced to downsize cincinnati becasue they knew they were going to file and GE will recieve a/c (Comair CRJ's), if delta does not pay on it's restructrued debt. Now, GE can take their 40-50 CRJ's and it wouldn't "shock" the DAL system that much. I'm afraid that is what is happening, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[relief tube]

if those jobs end up getting saved, god-willing, then that'll be the best news I've heard in a while. A good buddy of mine is one of those 153. A bar-raising pilot group derves only the best. Good luck

 

[General Lee]

if those jobs end up getting saved, god-willing, then that'll be the best news I've heard in a while. A good buddy of mine is one of those 153. A bar-raising pilot group derves only the best. Good luck

We raised the bar higher than it has ever been before (when we thought the company could afford it), and we eventually took at 32.5% pay cut and had 1300 furloughs at one time. Going to the top makes you an easy target.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bvt1151]

Revisionist history, eh. Thank god you now have an excuse to hide behind for you concessions for "growth" vote.

Fast Freddie's had a master plan for you from day one. You don't actually think this is the first he has heard of what was in the works for CVG, do you???

Go back through the threads and you'll see that furlough protection was the single most important reason to Comair pilots for voting in the LOA. It is well worth it to take a pay freeze to save the jobs of at least 153 pilots.

If nothing else, the Comair pilots have shown through the strike, negotiated FO wages, and now the pay freeze for furlough protection, that they take care of their young. That is extraordinary in today's union environment.

 

[bvt1151]

Someone help me out, how did the three year pay/longevity freeze save jobs? I am not trying to be a d1ck here, I just can't come up with any logical reason behind this statement. Do some people really think that this is the low water mark? You don't have to read between any lines, comair labor has artificially become more expensive overnight due to the reduction in flying. The loa was the first nibble. The new casm (you know they have pretty charts ready to parade around the crew room) will be crammed down everyone's throats for the next few weeks.

The cat is out of the bag that both costs and revenues are calcuated by block cost, not CASM. This means that in reality, daily utilization is not as important as some will try to make it out to be. If it were, CHQ would be the most expensive airline with their low utilization.

They will take another bite prior to bk in a "last ditch effort to avoid the judge". Once they get that they will 1113 your arse and whatever is left of work rules and pay will also go bye bye. Airline management looks at negotiations/labor cuts as an ultra marathon, and they always win. We are just too short-sighted, greedy, and forgetful to reallize that they have plan. They make a small move, we attack each other. They make another move, repeat...

Whatever happens now is entirely moot when it comes to chapter 11. Comair could have given us a 100% pay increase, but in chapter 11, it means nothing. Bankruptcy is a whole-nother matter, and it makes no difference what happens before, because everything is out the window in Ch11. It's pointless to even argue. What will affect the Comair pilots in a post-bk world is other pilot agreements. This is why the Comair pilot group is so sensitive to the Mesa's, and CHQ's underbidding everyone for quick upgrade. It is their lowsy contracts that we will be compared to.

That being said, the Comair pilots are doing what is necessary to survive before bankruptcy. Successfully staving off a 10% furlough is an incredible defensive manuever. I would much rather go into bankruptcy with those 153 pilots, even if it means the same result. Our local union council has proven its worth by protecting the jobs of Comair pilots first and foremost.

National union worth (or Woerth [sp?]) is another matter.

 

[Tim47SIP]

As I understand what is going on there are 165 pilot positions that either need to be lost by personal leaves or by furlough. Uba757

Well if this comes to fruitition, maybe ASA/Skywest could put those pilots to work. Minimum training required and we would get the number of people we need. Just a thought.

 

[uba757]

Great idea TIM. UBA757

 

[uba757]

Hey I am 100 pilots from the bottom and have no idea what is going to happend. I will say this about CMR it is a great company to work for and 99.9% of the people I met were OK by me. UBA757

 

[DGdaPilot]

Hey I am 100 pilots from the bottom and have no idea what is going to happend. I will say this about CMR it is a great company to work for and 99.9% of the people I met were OK by me. UBA757

Here, Here