Comair or COEX

[Bluto]

Thanks Surplus, I thought that was the case. In all seriousness, whichever one you choose will have positive and negative repercussions. I personally would look at Comair seriously. The bird in the hand and all that. Coex is likely to recall soon, Comair is hiring now. Imagine how much you'll kick yourself if you wait it out for Coex and end up furloughed another year. I agree, this exercise requires some crystal ball skills, but you're in a pretty good spot. Both companies look like they'll have promising futures. Pick one and don't look back.

 

[skydiverdriver]

I have a good friend at Coex, and I would pick Comair. At least we are a "regional" that isn't afraid to fight for the rights of our pilots. At Coex, their future is more closely tied to the profitability of the mainline, because of the flowthrough. I think it's funny how the mainline Delta guys can't understand why we won't ask their management for a flow, even after they have seen what it's done to Coex and Eagle guys. Really, they are both good airlines, but I think your future would be better at Comair. Good luck to you.

 

[mckpickle]

I have a good friend at Coex, and I would pick Comair. At least we are a "regional" that isn't afraid to fight for the rights of our pilots.

What the He11 is that all about. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a group of people more closely knit. What should we do, go on strike for 90 days and then still get a sh1tty contract? Ya thats the fight I want.

 

[captjim]

I have a good friend at Coex, and I would pick Comair. At least we are a "regional" that isn't afraid to fight for the rights of our pilots. At Coex, their future is more closely tied to the profitability of the mainline, because of the flowthrough. I think it's funny how the mainline Delta guys can't understand why we won't ask their management for a flow, even after they have seen what it's done to Coex and Eagle guys. Really, they are both good airlines, but I think your future would be better at Comair. Good luck to you.

Yeah, what the hell are you talking about? This pilot group is very close net and looks out for each other for the most part.

The flow through was a document that was negotiated when the pilot group was 600 strong. It was never meant for 2,000 plus pilot as it is now. In my opinion it's time has come to die, but it is in full force.

Your comments are way off base, and inflamatory towards my pilot group. I do take offense when you accuse us of being not unified. I don't think you meant to be offensive but you were.

 

[General Lee]

Skydiverdriver,

Oh no, here we go again. You complaining about how Delta pilots can't see "your problems." What problems? You are hiring a lot, growing a lot, and getting cocky. You seem to forget that we helped pay for you during your strike, and now you won't help us---it is as simple as that. Don't worry---what goes around comes around. Sure, we MIGHT hire a couple of you guys when things eventually turn around and our furloughs come back, but we won't hire guys like you with that attitude. ASA will benefit, and unfortunately--you won't. And ASA has only hired 13 of our guys---but that was good enough. It's literally "money in the bank."

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[skyslug]

Skydivedriver, what in the wild wild world of sports are you talking about? I also have a good friend at Coex and your remark about fighting for our rights as pilots hold true at Coex also. I dont' think you meant your post to appear like a slap in the face of the Coex guys but it did. They're a great bunch of pilots, as are the Delta guys.

We've got a ton of furloughed Coex guys here who all gave up their seniority number. They seem very content here.

Both companies are fine choices. You'll have seniority at Coex when you get recalled, you'll be on the bottom of our list if you get hired here. Reserve is I think a year in CVG, which incidently is our only base at this juncture. We're all hoping that management springs a new base on us in the next year or so, hopefully sooner. We're running out of space in our bag room.

When do you expect to get recalled? I hear everyone should be recalled by years end.

 

[captainv]

DTNflyer,

i can't say much about COEX, since i'm not familiar with their fleet and pilot numbers, but if you were to come to Comair early this year there's a good chance you'll have 200-250 guys below you by year's end. that means lots of things - probably being a lineholder instead of sitting reserve, insurance against getting furloughed in case things go south, etc. but also look at quality of life, which airline has a domicile near where you live? which would be an easier commute? what about benefits or travel priviledges?
i've heard rumours continental might sell express jet to raise cash - if so how would that affect things? express jet might do even better as an independent with strong ties to continental.

as for the whole delta vs. comair thing, i wouldn't let that affect your decision. pilots on both sides have strong opinions, and i can see valid points for each. for me personally, i'd love to have delta furloughees come to comair without giving up their number. one of my best friends, the guy who taught me how to fly, is a Delta furloughee. if he's willing to take first-year pay and sit reserve, i think he deserves a job much more than a corporate guy with no airline experience, like me. i don't see Comair suffering a big drain when delta recalls, unless we hired tons of furloughees. on the other hand, i wasn't at comair during the strike, so i have no idea what those guys went through or how they were treated. i can only formulate opinions based on my own limited experiences.

also, comair is doing well now, and serves a major airline that has a lot of financial flexibility despite recent losses. even if delta were to shun Comair pilots, that's something we won't have to worry about for years. even after delta recalls everyone and starts hiring, there will be a lot of more qualified guys ahead of me wanting to interview. at this point, i'd love to fly for delta someday. but who knows what the picture will look like in 3, 5, 10 years? i wouldn't sweat that decision until you've got competitive numbers.....

captainv

 

[General Lee]

CaptainV,

I know you weren't there when Comair had its strike, and I am glad that you would be willing to allow a Delta Furlough to go to the bottom of your list. During the strike at Comair, Delta and DALPA were nothing but supportive to Comair. We paid money (along with other ALPA carriers) and we told management that we would not fly Comair's struck work. I personally flew for a regional, and I wanted Comair to get better wages and work rules. But, in the end, Delta lost $250 million, and they outlasted the Comair pilots. That was the way it was. We did not do anything to deserve the treatment our furloughs are getting right now. In a time of NEED, just like when the Comair pilots NEEDED money and support, our furloughs are now pawns in a Comair vs Delta MEC game, and the big losers are the furloughs. The Comair MEC wants unlimited 70 seaters and the ability to fly 90 seaters, which would result in us at Mainline probably losing our 737-200's and losing many more jobs. Keeping "big jets" on the property ensures that more people will eventually benefit from our better contract, and move up to Delta. We didn't blink when the Comair pilot's needed help, and now they are not just "blinking", but closing their eyes to this problem. The pilots that were furloughed were not the ones making the "big bucks.." They were on their way, but now aren't even close.

Bottomline....Comair seems to be a great regional to fly for, with nice planes and an opportunity to see different places on both coasts. But, if you ever want to go on to Delta from Comair---there may be a big obstacle in your way-----The Comair MEC's ego. Most Captains I fly with have the same attitude towards this, "Well, we won't hire them..." Keep that in mind when you decide.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[surplus1]

During the strike at Comair, Delta and DALPA were nothing but supportive to Comair. We paid money (along with other ALPA carriers) and we told management that we would not fly Comair's struck work. I personally flew for a regional, and I wanted Comair to get better wages and work rules. But, in the end, Delta lost $250 million, and they outlasted the Comair pilots. That was the way it was. We did not do anything to deserve the treatment our furloughs are getting right now. In a time of NEED, just like when the Comair pilots NEEDED money and support, our furloughs are now pawns in a Comair vs Delta MEC game, and the big losers are the furloughs. The Comair MEC wants unlimited 70 seaters and the ability to fly 90 seaters, which would result in us at Mainline probably losing our 737-200's and losing many more jobs. Keeping "big jets" on the property ensures that more people will eventually benefit from our better contract, and move up to Delta. We didn't blink when the Comair pilot's needed help, and now they are not just "blinking", but closing their eyes to this problem.

Bottomline....Comair seems to be a great regional to fly for, with nice planes and an opportunity to see different places on both coasts. But, if you ever want to go on to Delta from Comair---there may be a big obstacle in your way-----The Comair MEC's ego. Most Captains I fly with have the same attitude towards this, "Well, we won't hire them..." Keep that in mind when you decide.

Bye Bye---General Lee

General,

I guess someone has to point out that your views on some of these issues are slanted in favor of your own perspectives, so it might as well be me.

1. Yes, you paid the assessment -- as did all ALPA pilots. Thanks. Notably, you are also the ONLY ALPA pilots that continuously remind us that you met your obligations, not to Comair pilots, but to the union. For those constant "reminders" --- no thanks.

2. True, you did not fly struck work. Now spare me the effort of trying to indicate that you did Comair pilots a "favor" by not making yourselves Scabs. You did us no favor. You merely did what every other union pilot did and does, i.e., you didn't make yourselves scabs. Bravo.

3. Delta did not lose $250 millions. According to Delta's annual report, Delta lost in excess of $680 millions (over 90 days) during the CMR strike. Many would argue that was an extremely stupid manuever on the part of management, especially since it would have cost about $50 millions (over 5 years), above the costs of the new contract, to give CMR pilots everything they were asking. Others, like me, wont argue -- they'll just say "a fool and his money soon part." But yes, they did outlast us in their folly.

4. Your (Delta) furloughees aren't getting any "treatment" from the Comair MEC or from Comair pilots. Our Company doesn't hire pilots with dual seniority numbers. That is not a policy set by the Comair MEC. It is set by management.

As for the "treatment" your MEC got from our MEC, it is far less onerous than the "treatment" we have enjoyed for years. Your DMEC has acted against the best interests of Comair pilots repeatedly for nearly a decade.

Yes, we want more 70-seaters. We had unlimited 70-seaters before your MEC first attempted to take them all away and failing to succeed, eventually managed to limit the number to half of what we intended to buy and then on top of that, divided them between all of DCI contractors. A predatory manuever detrimental to the careers of every Comair pilot.

Your MEC further sought to restrict and limit all of our flying in 50-seaters and overall. Only circumstances beyond your MEC's control prevented that from happening. Another move by the DMEC that is detrimental to the careers of every Comair pilot.

Your MEC, with regard to your furloughees, made a clearly political request of our MEC, coupled with a threat of retaliation if we did not agree to its wishes. Your "request" included and "offer" that your MEC can't deliver. Additionally, your MEC made it clear that its bogus "offer" of preferential hiring was subject to "super preferential" hiring of military pilots that do not work for ANY airline. People like me, and other Comair pilots that have been around long enough to know the truth, are more than greatful that the CMR MEC represented the interests of Comair pilots and rejected the political BS coming from the DMEC.

That your furloughees got no benefit is NOT the fault of the CMR MEC, it is the fault of the Delta MEC. When the DMEC gets off its high horse, stops trying to limit our careers and starts to recognize that it cannot dictate to Comair pilots, we'll make progress.

We have made NO effort to take your "big" airplanes. We have not demanded anything from you nor have we asked you for any favors. We have made no claim to 90-seaters, that's up to the Company. You don't have any 90-seaters and neither do we. We also had none on order before we were acquired by Delta. If the Company buys 90-seaters and gives them to you we won't cry. If they give them to us, we will fly them.

Your MEC has consistently attempted to use Comair and other Delta subsidiaries as bargaining chips in your negotiations. A behavior that most of us despise. Many of you have stated that you will try again to take our 70-seaters, just as you did before. If there is a predator in this "game" (your word), it is the Delta MEC and ALPA, not the CMR MEC. Your MEC came to the table making threats and even now, you continue to make future "threats" that you will attempt to obstruct the future hiring of CMR pilots at Delta. With "friends" like the DMEC, who needs enemies?

I'm sorry your pilots are furloughed and would really like to help. Comair pilots haven't "closed their eyes" to anything. On the contrary, our eyes are wide open --- we see the Delta MEC for what it is -- a predator stalking Comair pilots as potential victims. No more, no less. Like our MEC told your MEC, the door is open. When your MEC has something credible to say, I'm sure our MEC is more than willing to listen. Until then, this pilot thinks your MEC can pack sand.

I've noticed that many of you have said that you think Comair pilots should recall our MEC. This Comair pilot thinks you should recall the DMEC. Then we might get somewhere.

Bottom line .... Comair IS a great place to work and the pilot group is super. We welcome all comers from any source as long as they want to be Comair pilots. The industry as a whole is in deep trouble and we can't predict the future. Today Comair is doing OK, but tomorrow that may be different. Hopefully it will continue to get better, but there is no guarantee. We can only hope for the best and do our best to keep our Company successful.

We hope that Delta pilots will also expereince success and that those on furlough will soon be able to return to their airline. We hope too that in the future, we will be able to work together in harmony. Meanwhile, some of us will continue to call a spade, a spade.

Don't take this personal, for it isn't. I don't know any Comair pilot that has anything against the Delta line pilot. We would like to call you "friend". We just aren't willing to call you Dad. You'll have to get used to that.

 

[DTNflyer]

JETLINKING

First of all I would like to thank all the pilots that replied and good luck in all your career goals.

Second I didn't even know there was a little turbulence between the CMR and DAL pilot group about furloughs and hiring and returning favors.......but that was not even an issue when I decided.

Third I think Delta and Comair are a top notch combination thats hard to beat, and from the replies I got sounds like everyone likes to work there.

When I interviewed with comair I kind of felt bad, like I was betraying the pilots at COEX, but I knew I had to keep my options open.......I know its stupid and i'm sure people will say i'm a big ol P***Y but that was the truth.......but by the end of the day I was impressed by the operation at comair.

If theres any "regional" (for lack of a better word) airline to work for I think it would be COEX, Comair, ASA, ACA, and Skywest in no particular order. These airlines seem to be setting the standard in my short lived eyes.

For my fellow pilots at X-Jet I am still here and patiently waiting till april, YOU GUYS ARE THE S**T!!!!

When I got the word I was furloughed I found out I was going to have a baby five minutes after the news. I sat quite for about two hours thinking what I was going to do. Then a few weeks after that the CAL/COEX pilot group voted to pay for the furloughees 's health insurance. IF IT WERE NOT FOR THOSE PILOTS I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE SO THANK YOU IF ANYONE OF YOU READS THIS.

Anyways COEX has taken care of me in my time of need and although some COEX furloughee's may not see it this way I see all the furloughs as taking one for the team...you guys can say what you want but thats my opinion......all the off the street guys and COEX flowups will remember that we lost our jobs so they wouldn't, ahhhh the safety of seniority. But I think they will remember us when things are in the upswing and I'm trying to join the ranks at BIG CAL, if not f**K it thats life i'll suck it up and move on.

Everyone I have worked with at COEX is awesome from the rampees to the CPT's I flew with and when it all comes down to it I like working with cool people even if I was cleaning lav's all day.

Houston is also the place for me and my family, always a big factor in any decision. Second year pay would come in three months and so would my voting rights on the upcoming contract. I think we can better if not match Comair's contract.

In all your just rolling the dice in this career field, if the s**T hits the fan it wouldn't even matter if I was at Comair or COEX at least I wouldn't get furloughed twice waiting it out at COEX. And I get a couple of months to spend some time with my daughter.

SO X-JET ALL I WANT TO HEAR IS "HI ITS HR AND AND WE WANT YOU BACK SO GET YOUR A** DOWN IN HOUSTON!!!".....and I think I speak for all the X-JET and CAL furloughs waiting patiently.

I am but one of thousands of furloughed pilots who have it worse than I do, or hopefully better.

p.s. Bluto i'll see you at rick's whoever the hell you are.