Comair MEC

acarpe3448

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TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATE: December 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533
 

buscap

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I believe it was 'Frak You!!'

..in Battlestar Galactica geekspeak
 

doh

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At the time that happened I told one of the reps it was a huge mistake. We should have told management: "Hiring is a management function. If you want us to make management decisions, we will start with the retirement, move to the scheduling and on to medical. If you don't want us making management decisions, then you take care of this!" We then could have said to Delta, we don't make that decision, take it up with management. Comair management never did anything we wanted, so asking us if they could hire "X" was nothing but a ploy to drive a wedge between pilot groups. JC & co. fell right into their hands. We should have stayed away from the whole thing.
 

acarpe3448

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At the time that happened I told one of the reps it was a huge mistake. We should have told management: "Hiring is a management function. If you want us to make management decisions, we will start with the retirement, move to the scheduling and on to medical. If you don't want us making management decisions, then you take care of this!" We then could have said to Delta, we don't make that decision, take it up with management. Comair management never did anything we wanted, so asking us if they could hire "X" was nothing but a ploy to drive a wedge between pilot groups. JC & co. fell right into their hands. We should have stayed away from the whole thing.

That is a different spin on the story! I had not heard that. Good insight on your part.
 

General Lee

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TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATE: December 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533

This still makes my blood boil. Luckily Comair took a historic fall and is now one step above Mesa. Lawson can suck it now.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Raskal

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"Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots."

Wow. That didn't work out to well, did it? Didn't Delta go on to become the biggest regional whore of a major with like 9 or so regionals providing feed? Ouch.
 

acarpe3448

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This still makes my blood boil. Luckily Comair took a historic fall and is now one step above Mesa. Lawson can suck it now.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Makes me furious also! While myself and hundreds and hundreds of others were furloughed, making a push for unlimited larger jets, and a senority grab! It was an unfortunate time for sure. One that will never be forgotten I am sure.
 

Broke in CVG

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Makes me furious also! While myself and hundreds and hundreds of others were furloughed, making a push for unlimited larger jets, and a senority grab! It was an unfortunate time for sure. One that will never be forgotten I am sure.
As long as you want to bring up history, March 2001: Thanks for the strike checks.... oh, that's right every other airline pilots sent checks except for ONE ~ Delta. I take that back, there was one Delta pilot who sent in a check. One! And for the record, a majority of Comair pilots voiced their opinion to JC on this matter and he tried to use the DL furloughs as negotiation chips with DALPA anyway.

You're a big A-hole for even trudging this up.
 

JoeMerchant

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While we are digging up history....This will help put things in perspective:

http://www.rjdefense.com/dalmecmergsub.pdf

The Delta MEC makes a point to distinguish the ASA and CMR hiring process...Then a year later, they want to ignore that because they need help....They made the case that they are separate....when it suits them....

Pages 5, 8, and 13 are very clear that the pilot hiring process and groups are separate....Seems they wanted to change that tune a year later....
 
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acarpe3448

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As long as you want to bring up history, March 2001: Thanks for the strike checks.... oh, that's right every other airline pilots sent checks except for ONE ~ Delta. I take that back, there was one Delta pilot who sent in a check. One! And for the record, a majority of Comair pilots voiced their opinion to JC on this matter and he tried to use the DL furloughs as negotiation chips with DALPA anyway.

You're a big A-hole for even trudging this up.
How much did you send in to me while I was on furlough A-Hole! This is your history, don't get mad at me because of it! Or are you pissed because you are shrinking into nasty history?
 

acarpe3448

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While we are digging up history....This will help put things in perspective:

http://www.rjdefense.com/dalmecmergsub.pdf

The Delta MEC makes a point to distinguish the ASA and CMR hiring process...Then a year later, they want to ignore that because they need help....They made the case that they are separate....when it suits them....

Pages 5, 8, and 13 are very clear that the pilot hiring process and groups are separate....Seems they wanted to change that tune a year later....

I think the point is, that by hiring (very few) furloughed Delta pilots and not requiring them to resign senority;

1. Would not have made any difference on upgrades or advancement to any Comair pilot.

2. This request was due to a unusual situation(post 9-11)

3. In order to agree to any furlough coming over to the bottom of your list for a short time: you demanded that we get rid of all of our scope and allow you to get as many large jets that you wanted-(that would put even more Delta pilots on the street)

In any case, different opinions I guess. It's been a while
 

JoeMerchant

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I think the point is, that by hiring (very few) furloughed Delta pilots and not requiring them to resign senority;

1. Would not have made any difference on upgrades or advancement to any Comair pilot.

2. This request was due to a unusual situation(post 9-11)

3. In order to agree to any furlough coming over to the bottom of your list for a short time: you demanded that we get rid of all of our scope and allow you to get as many large jets that you wanted-(that would put even more Delta pilots on the street)

In any case, different opinions I guess. It's been a while
The point is that your MEC used the different hiring criteria as a case in why there isn't sufficient operational integration for a PID....The CMR hiring criteria required resigning seniority and YOUR MEC said that DAL/CMR/ASA are separate and that the separate hiring criteria proved that...You reep what you sow.....The DAL MEC likes asking for help when it needs it...but it never does anything for anyone else.....Midwest Express is just the latest example....What have they done for them?
 

acarpe3448

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The point is that your MEC used the different hiring criteria as a case in why there isn't sufficient operational integration for a PID....The CMR hiring criteria required resigning seniority and YOUR MEC said that DAL/CMR/ASA are separate and that the separate hiring criteria proved that...You reep what you sow.....The DAL MEC likes asking for help when it needs it...but it never does anything for anyone else.....Midwest Express is just the latest example....What have they done for them?

Ok! Thanks! The letter was still put out there. Water under the bridge. As far as "You reep what you sow" I agree 100%. Comair is going to be nothing but a memory soon. Not to many other airlines out there to hire them. But as you say, You reep what you sow. It's to bad it all happened. I bet no more than 20 Delta pilots would have elected to go there. Probably more like 5 at the most.
 

PA44Jockey

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I almost think it would be unsafe to put a Delta pilot with an ego larger than the state of Texas on a flight deck with a Comair pilot. Comair should have allowed you Delta guys to have preferential hiring. You guys should have kept your Delta seniority for when you were recalled at Delta, but while you would have been at Comair you should have come in at the BOTTOM at First Year Pay. With every other carrier when you get preferential hiring you start at the bottom, not at your seniority on their pay scale. Hey, this sounds familiar.........Delta pilots, kids, getting on Comair aircraft before Comair employees.

As a local to the Cincinnati area and a Delta customer for the past 17 years, I hope DELTA AIR LINES gets theirs! Delta Air Lines is the Saddam Hussein of the airlines industry. They have done nothing but screw over their customers and even their employees.
 

Broke in CVG

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How much did you send in to me while I was on furlough A-Hole! This is your history, don't get mad at me because of it! Or are you pissed because you are shrinking into nasty history?
How much did I send to you? NOTHING. WHO DO YOU THINK I AM, OBAMA? However, I would have bent over backwards to help you help yourself.

First off, I was 100% for hiring the Delta furloughs and I didn't give a rats ass if you held on to your DL seniority number as long as you didn't display me out of my seat. I actually flew with 3 furloughed DL guys ~ so they did come to Comair after all (no thanks to JC Lawson's PR nightmare).

Secondly, my family's business directly hired 6 Delta Furloughees and that was directly as a result of me going to the BOD and recommending a friend who needed some help, who in turn brought several others with him. None of these guys had any business experience and I argued that the leadership skills would make up for it. They all turned out to be great employees and 4/6 are still there and decided that a desk job making $100k+ wasn't so bad after all.
 

bvt1151

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Wow, you guys really bought hard on the flame bait.
 
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