Comair MEC recall...

[PuffDriver]

Before being too critical of the Comair MEC (which I am likely to be from here) we probably should remember that even the Delta pilots signed off on their Company's final offer with only very minor changes. The Comair MEC had less power and was in much worse a position than the Delta MEC was.

You would think you might get something right just once or twice through sheer luck, but no.

List of things management did not achieve in their 1113 wish list:

19.5% pay cut with no raises
No 401k company contribution
5 year duration
Delete all furlough protections
No financial returns
325 million in concessions per year with no credit for DB termination
79 seat DCI aircraft
Delete change of control provisions
Establish a sick leave reliability program and impose draconian sick leave terms
minutes under offset by minutes over
15 minute release per duty period
no xtra captain on crew for over 12 hour flights(1 captain, 3 f/os
change contractual max duty scheduled time
change duty period minumum
deltte duty period average pay
delete trip rig (1:2)
reduce rotation credit (1:3.5)
delete OJI
increase category freeze
100 seater upgrade restriction
change trip assignment ladder
reserve assignment up to alv +15
delete pay back x-days for reserve
reduce inverse assignment pay
establish flight attendant satellite base parking without benefit to pilots

Not even close to "very minor changes" from their "final" offer

BTW, I voted no anyway

 

[surplus1]

As JC put it, "I have a vested interest in Comair..." What?

YOU may not have a vested interest in Comair. In fact based on your profile you really don't have a "vested interest" in anything. However, JC and a whole lot of other people do. It's spelled s-e-n-i-o-r-i-t-y.

Do not expect them to fall on their swords in support of your lack of a vested interest.

The drop dead in event of sale clause is not pretty. And the longevity is less than clear in the summary. I'm sure they'll explain it in the presentation, and it may still be unsat. There is no way to make these things perfect. There are always a lot of things not to like.

If you are going to compare the deal only on the basis of the book rates, consider the following.

• Compare the 07 TA CL 700 rates with those of the 05 TA which was for a seat range of 69 to 80 seats. The rates have been improved and the seat range of 69-80 has been eliminated. A significant improvement.

• Compare the CL705/900 rates to the rates negotiated at NWA for the 76-seat "Compass" operation. They are virtually identical. In fact CMR’s are better in that Compass has no rigs.

• Compare the CL705/900 rates to the rates for the EMB-190 (100 seats) at USAirways, Delta and Jet Blue. In making that comparison, remember that the CL705/900 rate is for CMR’s largest (potential) aircraft. The rates at USA, DAL and JBLU are for their smallest aircraft.

• If Comair should operate the CL705/900 it is very unlikely that any CA with less than 10 years seniority would fly that aircraft, whereas the pilots at USA, DAL or JBLU are likely to have less than 5 years seniority, plus the E190 is substantially larger. The rates compare favorably on that basis. No, that doesn't mean they are good - it just means that is where the industry is today.

The principle reason for rates in that aircraft being low are the low ball rates created by mainline pilots in order to hold on to that flying or try to take it back.

• Under the circumstance of bankruptcy, CMR negotiators have not done poorly on book rates.

Does it "suck"? Sure it does. There has never been an agreement negotiated in bankruptcy that didn't suck compared to what was there before. Just ask a UAL pilot, a USA pilot, a DAL pilot or a NWA pilot. There aren't a lot of "smiles" on those faces either.

Under the circumstances, your negotiating committe deserves a hand shake for their efforts - even if you don't like this and decide to vote it down.

Life is full of hard knocks and this is one of them. Nevertheless, reality cannot be ignored. When you get to where you have a "vested interest" in something you'll figure that out.

 

[embdrvr]

Rates still better than SkyWest with the new deal?

 

[FightingIrish]

Can someone post the details of the agreement?

 

[737 Pylt]

YOU may not have a vested interest in Comair. In fact based on your profile you really don't have a "vested interest" in anything. However, JC and a whole lot of other people do. It's spelled s-e-n-i-o-r-i-t-y.

It's also spelled R-E-T-I-R-E-M-E-N-T!!
Enjoy the shuffleboards, viagra, and bright Florida sunshine old man!
The cmr boys and girls will vote as they see fit! You don't have a say pops, you're out.
Worry about your aarp benefits!

737

 

[wrigley23]

Rates still better than SkyWest with the new deal?

No. Although very close across the board only Comair 50 FO is slightly higher. 50 CA, 70 CA, and 70 FO are either identical or slightly lower than Skywest according to the comparison provided.

I agree that ALPA negotiators did about all they could and protected the majority of the pilots at Comair which are 50 seat guys (I use the term protect losely, 8% paycut as opposed to higher cuts the company had proposed). However what really hurts are the 70 and 70+ rates. They are really, really bad, thanks to the "industry average", ie Skywest and Mesa. That being said, at least there are scales, there is a 50,70, and 70+ scale for captains and fo's, when the company wanted only three, a 50 CA, 70+ CA and one FO scale.

 

[V-1]

Not entirely pleased with it either...however:

It is a significant improvement over what 50% + 8 voted "Yes" for just a year ago.

There is a bankruptcy claim of $82.5 million attached to the T.A. That could be a significant amount of money to sweeten the deal...even if sold for less.

F.O. rates are closer to 60% of Captain rates than they were before.

Longevity is restored by 2011...not great, but better than the judge allowed.

Not a great deal by any stretch of the imagination, but a significant improvement over what half the pilot group agreed to in the recent past....and still better than the lowest compensated DCI pilots out there.

 

[staylow]

Who said I don't have a vested interest?

YOU may not have a vested interest in Comair. In fact based on your profile you really don't have a "vested interest" in anything. However, JC and a whole lot of other people do. It's spelled s-e-n-i-o-r-i-t-y!

Life is full of hard knocks and this is one of them. Nevertheless, reality cannot be ignored. When you get to where you have a "vested interest" in something you'll figure that out.

What are you talking about? What? Easy...sir...please step away form the KoolAid...I believe it has impaired your judgement. Pssss...can I have a little taste? (Hear me laughing...)

 

[AuburnRedneck9]

I'm not taking a shot at ComAir and I am not unsympathetic to their situation however it's about time to stop the bleeding. Along that line of reason didn't our new ALPA president run on a platform which essentially encompassed a theme of no more give backs or paycuts. I would never wish unemployment on anyone but I sincerely hope that he never signs another concessionary contract, especially one at CA where you guys do a good job and make money. You don't deserve this but caving in won't make this situation any better. Our pilot group can't get motivated to earn a good contract, we basically can't get the job done so I don't have much room to talk. However, I sincerely hope that our new ALPA president steps up to the plate and refuses to sign a concessionary deal. If you could strike I'd walk the picket lines with you.

On a side note I have some time invested in ASA and I would rather strike than take what the company has been offering. Surplus I'm glad you care about yourself, seniority and investment in CA I can appreciate that but what about your obligation to the business and the ranks of pilots that will follow you? Degrade it and get what you can out of it that's the attitude that will be the end of this career. That goes for the hardcore coolaid drinking senior pilots at ASA, you're not the only one who thinks that way.

 

[172driver]

It amazes me how the same pattern is repeated over and over again, almost verbatim. I thought maybe Comair would break it, but it sure doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

All I hear is tough talk until the company budges an inch, then it's justification and rationalization of why it's acceptable. I can hardly believe I heard a Comair pilot (I assume) say

....and still better than the lowest compensated DCI pilots out there.

Unbelievable. From the highest compensated to well, at least we're not the lowest.

 

[bvt1151]

It amazes me how the same pattern is repeated over and over again, almost verbatim. I thought maybe Comair would break it, but it sure doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

What? Exactly how is Comair supposed to break the cycle? Management has been given the ability to impose the contract, and the judge has made any work action (or talk of one) illegal. The Comair pilots effectively have their hands tied yet were still able to significantly improve over their last TA. No other airline that has substandard contracts (ASA, Skywest, Pinnacle, etc...) has anywhere near the limitations Comair does, and yet they're the ones complaining about Comair's inability to "hold the bar."

The recent TA is a HUGE win for pilots. You will not see any other imposed contract coupled with a strike injunction improve over the last voted offer.

Congrats to the Comair pilots. It was a huge feat, even though not everyone can see it.

 

[veneratio]

Strike Strike Strike

 

[N2264J]

You don't have a say pops, you're out. Worry about your aarp benefits!

You know, Surplus can impart more pertinent information in one paragraph than you have in 1,600 acrimonious screeds.

People are actually dumber for reading your crap.

You hang around the regional board reminding everybody that you're a 767 pilot because you have serious self esteem issues. Isn't that true?

 

[DrewBlows]

Strike Strike Strike

Ratings: ATP, CFI, CFII, MEI, ERJ-145

Most people are more subtle when they want to take your job.

 

[ohplease!]

I'm not taking a shot at ComAir and I am not unsympathetic to their situation however it's about time to stop the bleeding. Along that line of reason didn't our new ALPA president run on a platform which essentially encompassed a theme of no more give backs or paycuts. I would never wish unemployment on anyone but I sincerely hope that he never signs another concessionary contract, especially one at CA where you guys do a good job and make money. You don't deserve this but caving in won't make this situation any better. Our pilot group can't get motivated to earn a good contract, we basically can't get the job done so I don't have much room to talk. However, I sincerely hope that our new ALPA president steps up to the plate and refuses to sign a concessionary deal. If you could strike I'd walk the picket lines with you.

pretty easy for him to say since every one of the majors has taken huge cuts already and he heads an organization that couldn't care less about its regional groups.

As far as your last sentence here: they can't strike and WE WON'T be released. Not that it ever did but, ALPA has no backbone to stand for anything (especially at regionals), its been riped out by the courts (lawyers again)