Comair/major airline discussion

[skydiverdriver]

[Moderator note: This post was from the thread titled "Airline Industry" originally. It was moved here because it opened a discussion that didn't fall under the title of the original thread, yet deserves debate.- If4f]

Comair is a major that is hiring and purchasing new aircraft.

 

[Ty Webb]

Not a Major by my definiton!!

Sorry, Guy, but Comair is not a major, not by any stretch of the imagination. Neither is Eagle, neither is COEX. To claim other than that is simply deluding yourself.

They may sell more than $1 Bil in tickets, but that just means that they are a regional that sells a lot of tickets- they are still a regional.

Majors don't operate a 60 seat airplane as their "Heavy Iron".

 

[ifly4food]

Not a Major in your opinion!!

Sorry, Guy, but Comair is not a major, not by any stretch of the imagination. Neither is Eagle, neither is COEX. To claim other than that is simply deluding yourself.

They may sell more than $1 Bil in tickets, but that just means that they are a regional that sells a lot of tickets- they are still a regional.

Majors don't operate a 60 seat airplane as their "Heavy Iron".

As you said "by your deffinition", and you know what they say about opinions...
Last time I checked, the "official" deffinition of a "major" was $1 billion revenue. It mentions nothing about "heavy iron". Comair would in fact BE A MAJOR AIRLINE right now if they hadn't been absorbed by Delta.
You are deluding yourself to say that if you don't fly what you consider a "real airplane" you're not a "real airline". Get Real.

BTW- Comair flies 40, 50, and 70 seat aircraft (not 60 seat).

 

[skydiverdriver]

Well, if you say so. However, Comair is part of Delta, and they are a major, so I guess Delta is hiring. They are also furloughing at another side of the business, but I guess that cancels us out, right? What if a major had small jets, would your definition of a major have to change? Have you ever heard of Air Canada, as they are a major that flies CRJ's under the same senority list as Airbuses and 737's? Did you know America West used to fly DH-8's? I'm not sure how the size of the aircraft matters. What if Comair/ASA were larger than Delta Mainline, and we merged lists? Would Comair still be a Regional? I guess I don't understand YOUR definition. Good day.

 

[Ty Webb]

Look, Disneyworld sells over a Billion dollars' worth of tickets- that doesn't make them a major airline, and flying a bunch of REGIONAL jets out of one main base does not make Comair a major airline, regardless of how many tickets they sell.

If you want to know what a "major" airline is to most pilots, you should pick up a book delineating the history of the airlines.

I know this must break your heart, but a job flying a REGIONAL jet out of CVG does not make you a major airline pilot, no matter what you tell the girls at the laundromat.

 

[snowback]

C'mon Ty,

When you send or sent out resumes, wasn't your list made up of American, United, Delta, Continental, Northwest and Comair?

I guess I could have gone to Comair, but Delta trained me for free.

 

[ifly4food]

Ty: Disneyworld is not an airline. You are comparing apples to oranges. It is a fact that in the year Delta took over Comair they met the DOT deffinition of a major airline by earning $1 billion in revenue.

Snowback: Comair hasn't asked anyone to pay for training in several years. Neither has ASA.
I'm impressed that your first airline was Delta. Not everyone is so fortunate.

 

[d328pilot]

why dont you post a poll....and see what the majority thinks..use some of the neat features of the new board.

 

[antney]

eagle is one of the major airlines. a major airlines is based on 1 billion dollars in revenue expense, not the type of aircraft. so yes american eagle is considered a major air carrier without ties to american airlines. no other regional carrier is a major besides american eagle.
antney

 

[eddie]

If Comair and Eagle are major airlines, then we need a new name for United and American. No matter how you look at it, a twenty year captain at Comair is not going to live the life of a twenty year United captain. Nor is he going to fly a 777.

Or maybe I've been trying to get my big job with the wrong companies.

PS: Does this mean that Airtran, Frontier, and Alaska are Regionals?

 

[antney]

well heres the deal to be a major airlines you have to make 1 billion dollars on your operating expense, does not mean pilots will get paid like United, American etc. this is just for claffication to airlines, others might fall under, National carriers, regional carriers, but with this classification is strictly based on operating expense, not pilot wages, and if your going for a job just for money, then you have to research that.
antney

 

[FlyinBrian]

Please guys...

I'm a little curious why there is even a pissing match over the label "major." Why does the label matter? Are we not all pilots? Do we not all deserve work rules we can live with and salaries we can feed our families with? I'm not saying that RJ captains should be paid the same as 777 captains, but pissing on each other over whether the DOT's definition of "major" is appropriate or not does nothing for pilots. Division among our ranks makes it easier to take advantage of us, and one of the biggest divisions between pilots it the one that exists between "regional" pilots and "major" pilots. So let's not perpetuate this phenomenon with silly rhetoric about semantics.

 

[eddie]

I think the label matters so we, as pilots, can differentiate between the type of flying we will see at a specific airline.

Major Airlines fly large airplanes long distances. You can count on flying 4+ hour legs when you become senior enough at a major.

At a Regional, you can bet most flights will be under two hours and you will fly an airplane which holds less than 100 people.

I don't think the work rules should be any different between the two classifications of airlines, but I think the distinction (at least in everyday conversation) should remain as it has been.

Here's my opinion: Eagle may make a lot of money, but if you asked AMR whether they own 1 or 2 major airlines, I would assume they would say they run One Major and One Regional which feeds that major airline.

 

[Airline Pilot27]

I agree with the previous post. These labels i.e. regional pilot/airline, major pilot/airline just divide an already divided pilot community. I think BA flies my "regional jet" as well as B-747's...so what are they labeled as a "regajor"? Hey I may have coined a new term.

 

[cmrflyer]

BA don't fly E-RJs. BA bought a company called Briman a few years ago, they are the ones that fly the RJs, just like the deal with Comair and Delta.
The guys a Briman (Bryman?) make a lot more money than the guys a Comair, and the guys at Delta make a lot more money than the guys a British Airways.

Strange how that works out.

 

[Old Crow]

Well, I guess I'll join this just for the fun...

Comair, Delta, ASA... Are we all doing the same thing?

I believe that the issue of Comair not being a Major is quite elementary... No they are not.

The topic of discussion should be, Is Comair unfairly paid? Yes, most definately, and so is ASA.

Let's not make ourselves enemies because we then allow the barriers to build rather than grow together as one.


Thanks.

 

[Two-9-9-TwoSet]

You might be a regional airline pilot if

Regardless of what the "DOT" definition says..

THE REALITY IS....if you are ANYTHING "EXPRESS"...you are working for a regional airline..

If your day involves 13 hours of duty and you still don't even leave a state, you're working for a regional airline

If you fly 8 legs a day, you're working for a regional airline..(sorry you SWA guys, i heard the major will be hiring soon)

If you carry a little blue bag with sandwiches made from home in the cockpit..you're working for a regional airline..

If you keep referring to a 737 as "THE WHALE", you're working for a regional airline..

If your airline takes 30 minutes to board 40 passengers, you're working for a regional airline..

If you request "lav service" and the guy on the radio suggests you do it youself...you're working for a regional airline..

If your cruising altitude is less than 5000', you're working for a regional airline

If at anytime in your career, you had a passenger sh!t in the airplane because your airplanes don't have a LAV, you're working for a regional airline..

If your airplane only requires the "displaced threshold" portion of the runway to takeoff..you're working for a regional airline

If the "cockpit door" on your airplane is a curtain..you're working for a regional airline (jetstream31)

If half of your company's airplane have 1 major airline's paint scheme, and the other half has another major airline's paint scheme, you're working for a regoinal airline..

If your company has pilot domiciles that only has 2 or 3 lines, you're working for a regional airline

If every seat on your airplane is both a "window" AND an "aisle" seat, you're working for a regional airline.

If the "heavies" at your company is only half the weight of 737, you're working for a regional airline..

If the only time you see more than one flight attendant working together is during a 3-some, you're working for a regional airline...

If you are following a turboprop on final and the tower tells you "caution wake turbulence"..you're working for a regional airline..

If you ever had a passenger asked you "is this thing safe"?? you're working for a regional airline..(i have to admit that really pisses me off when they do that)

If earplugs are passed out during the boarding process, you're working for a regional airline.

If your passengers have to take several bus rides to get to your airplane, you're working for a regional airline

If the lowest level of a typical jetway is still higher than the top of your airplane, you're working for a regional airline..

If your passengers use a jetway, then have to walk down the stairs to get to the ramp, then walk over to your airplane..well, you know who you're working for.

Merry Christmas to everyone !!

 

[Snapperhead]

I'll tell ya one thing. I used to fly for Trans States and they're considered a national airline. What a joke, they're not squat. They're a fly on an elephants tookas. BTY, Comair is not a major, but keep telling yourself it is just to make yourself feel better. It's ok.

 

[hawkerjet]

The Department of Transportation classifies a major airline as having over 1 billion dollars in revenue sales in one year, a national as having more than 100 million but less than 1 billion and a regional as having less than 100 million. We all refer to the major's as the big six but has nothing to do with annual revenue. Although this is the technically correct way to classify an airline , I haven't come across too many pilots who follow this line of classification, just a few beancounters use this.

 

[FL000]

This is typical pilot penis pugilism. Each of us knows our mission and salary, and most of us are even comfortable with it.

(however, the "list" was funny. How about this...if you can't go into town because none of the crew is old enough to rent a car, you work for a regional)

 

[eddie]

Re: You might be a regional airline pilot if

Two-9-9-TwoSet -

BRAVO!

That was a great post!

Merry Christmas

 

[kilomike]

I will probably get into hot water for this one but the DOT definition for major is over $1 billion for a major airline. True. But the passenger's perception of major airline is large aircraft flying longer haul segments. I think a more accurate term for Delta, UAL, etc. would be "global airline" since they have international routes crossing oceans. Then the breakdown would go to "major" in terms of revenue 1B+ such as Comair, etc. A better term might be "major domestic carrier" since they do not fly routes that cross oceans. Then the usual breakdown of national, regional, etc. applies for the smaller carriers. Just a thought.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all! As soon as I get my check on the 21st I'll send a donation.

Kilomike

 

[Wiggums]

Hey TwoSet -

You forgot this one. If the FO has to show passengers how to work the belts at the beginning of the flight, and dispose of the sick-sacs at the end of the flight, you're working for a regional airline.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Express anything? I guess Delta Express is a regional too, as well as Delta Shuttle. I don't think any of this really matters, but it does underscore the great job the media and our management has done to allow lower paid alter-ego airlines to exist. The elimination of this situation should be the number one goal of every pilot who flies for an "airline."

PS, I don't appreciate the webmaster starting a new thread making it look like I started a discussion with this statement. I was answering another persons question, and now it looks like I was trying to start something. Thank you.

 

[MetroSheriff]

SDD,

Although I often agree with your sentiments, we would part on this issue.

Comair is a major that is hiring and purchasing new aircraft.

While the regional moniker is not accurate for many carriers. I think we all know what qualifies as a major in the eyes of the pilots. It would seem that this inflammatory remark was an effort to make a statement while disregarding the well-known "de-facto" definition of "major" airline. You seemed to be starting this line of posting, all be it, not in a new thread.

 

[ifly4food]

PS, I don't appreciate the webmaster starting a new thread making it look like I started a discussion with this statement. I was answering another persons question, and now it looks like I was trying to start something. Thank you.

I apologize if you were irrritated by my moving it here. The original thread had wandered way off topic, and I felt it would be better to start a new discussion of this issue than delete it.
See the note at the top of the first page.
Ifly4food
moderator

 

[RueterF16]

Lower paid alter egos

I guess you don't like the fact that lower paid airline pilots are still working, while some of the higher paid ones aren't. It would be great if we could all make a quarter mil a year to do almost nothing, but it's not economically possible...
Sorry

 

[Ty Webb]

If it walks like a duck . . . . . .

I have nothing but respect for my fellow pilots- at a regional, at a national, at a major, at a fractional- whatever.

What I object to is someone saying that a Comair Pilot job is a Major Airline Pilot job. It's not.

Sure, one of the requirements of being a major is having more than $1 Bil in sales, but from a pilot's perspective- if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and craps like a duck, then it is a D-U-C-K.

Comair is a regional, they operate regional jets and pay a regional pay scale. They are owned by DAL, they did not merge with Delta- they are a regional, period.

 

[RueterF16]

Lower paid alter-ego airlines??

Are you trying to insinuate that airlines that don't pay their pilots a majors salry are not airlines??? I guess you should wish. I know there are those of you out there that feel you should be getting a quarter mil a year to fly 10 days a month. but the reality is, you're not worth that much. Maybe if you were a baseball player, or football hero, but an airline pilot??? come on! Do you really think that every airline should, if they could, pay their pilots the same as any other airline?. Fortunately for us it's a free market society. If we go down the path of, paying the industry standard, for every pilot, we'll wind up with one airline. Ahhh socialism at it's finest..

 

[Ty Webb]

Let's try to stay on topic here, shall we? No one said that all pilots should make $250K/yr. That's a topic for another string.

What I said was that Comair is a regional airline, that flys regional aircraft, and has a regional pay scale, which they do.

A Capt. at Comair makes less than an F/O at most majors. That is regional pay, no doubt about it.