Comair is not going down any faster than any other airline!

[N2264J]

Can someone briefly explain what the beef is between the Delta and Comair pilot groups.. I have a vague idea and nothing more.

Since you've asked, here's a post from Surplus1, a retired Comair pilot and longtime Comair MEC member, from 2004 to provide some background. Click on the blue icon below for the whole post/thread.

...There are several reasons for the Delta pilots hatred (like it or not that's what it is) of the Comair pilot group and none of them have anything to do with furloughees.

1) Their MEC tried to prevent Comair from flying jets. The Comair MEC did not roll over and do their bidding. They got angry and have been stomping their feet ever since. They even resorted to calling us "scabs" on the radio when our jets first came on line, and no, it was not one or two of them, it was hundreds of them. They were accustomed to getting their way and having everybody bow before them in ALPA. The Comair MEC didn't bow and they haven't gotten over it. They have disliked us intensly ever since.

2). They tried to promote an Eagle-type flow-through agreement and they were told we were "not interested". They then threatened to stop us from flying the 70-seater alltogether and we told them it would mean war. They tried anyway and failed, winding up with "unlimited" 70-seaters in their scope clause (1996). That pissed them off even more.

3) They used their power within ALPA to take funding away from the Comair MEC in the effort to coerce the CMR MEC into doing what they wanted. They were successful in the Executive Council. The Comair pilots countered by assessing themselves, keeping the assessment money outside of ALPA control and blocking effectively the Delta MEC's effort to coerce the CMR MEC with money. That pissed them off again, even more.

4) The Comair MEC filed a PID request after the purchase of our airline. It was an attempt at unity. The Delta MEC called it a "seniority grab" and launched a progaganda campaign among Delta pilots to promote that idea. The Delta pilots fell for it hook, line and sinker. The Delta MEC fought the PID, with lawyers and every other available means at their disposal. They were successful, but they deeply resented the idea that some "scumbags" from Comair would suggest a merger with almighty Delta. They hated us for making the attempt and they still do.

5) In C2K negotiations they tried again to take away the 70-seaters. They were only partially successful and blocked them at 57. They also restricted the 50-seaters and intentionally created a provision that would force the 70-seaters to be spread over all of DCI, effectively blocking the large orders/options placed by CMR before it was purchased by Delta. They felt good about "squashing" CMR pilots' aspirations (within Comair) and made no secret of it.

6) During the strike they did what they had to do to keep themselves from being called scabs, i.e., they did not fly struck work. They did not do that in support of Comair pilots, they did it for themselves. Some of them walked the picket line with CMR pilots, right up until they got their own C2K settled. As soon as that happened, they never walked again. They did not walk to help CMR, they walked to help their own negotiations. While they were preaching "support" in public, their MEC was quietly fighting every approval of funding from the SOC. They paid the assement because they had to, and some of them gave some dollars to the family fund. Most of them gave nothing, but they have been crowing about it ever since. They are the ONLY pilot group, in or out of ALPA, that has ever demanded a pay-back for their alleged generosity.

7) A group of Comair pilots sued ALPA for failing to represent our interests properly by helping the Delta pilots effort to take our 70-seaters and scope us out of existence. They resented that deeply and used it as a political weapon against all Comair pilots. They are still doing that today.

8) When their pilots were furloughed, their own MEC did NOTHING to help them other than paying their insurance (COBRA). Their MEC refused to use its own negotiating capital with Delta management to obtain preferential hiring for the furloughed pilots anywhere. Instead, they seized an opportunity to approach the CMR MEC with a political manuever structured in a way that they knew would have to be rejected. When it was, they launched a campaign of villification and slander against our MEC and our Chairman. It was no accident, it was a deliberate effort to turn the Delta pilots against Comair pilots and it worked, just like the first propaganda effort and the lies about "seniority grabs". Their MEC Chairman, who made the move, was a long time opponent of Comair jets, before he became MEC Chairman. He was a part of the original effort to take the 70-seaters. A hypocrite and an enemy of the Comair pilots. The furloughed Delta pilots were gullible enough to believe him and with the active propaganda of the Delta MEC joined in the campaign to blame the CMR MEC for the failures of their own MEC.

9) In their most recent concessionary bargaining, while their MEC is publicly pretending to have a "new accomodation" with the CMR and ASA MEC's, they were actively trying at the bargaining table to take the 70-seaters again. They failed. Then they tried to negotiate a J4J program that would put Delta pilots into the Captain seats of Comair airplanes, just like USAir. It had the support of ALPA, but that support was neutered in part due to the RJDC litigation. It failed because the Company would not agree to it. They agreed to modify their scope because the company forced them to do it, period. They were not doing us any favors so don't be duped into believing that.

Since 1994 (long before many of you that want to kiss and make up came to CMR) The Delta MEC, has engaged in a concerted effort to control the flying of Comair pilots; to limit the number of jets we operate; to restrict the size of those jets to 50-seats; and literally to screw us in every way they could think of. Many of you CMR pilots that want a love-in would not be here if they had prevailed. The CMR MEC was mostly, though not completely, successful in stopping them and they resent that...

Now they want to pretend that they are "injured" because the CMR MEC would not go to war with our management for their benefit. We would not do with our management what their own DMEC refused to do with their own Delta management. So now they have the "right" to threaten and attempt to blackball CMR pilots that might want to fly at Delta in the future. They condemn us because we did not do for them what they refused to do for themselves; for their own furloughed pilots...

The best thing we Comair pilots can do is start worrying about our own survival before we waste time worrying about make-believe unity with people whose agenda is to do us in.

 

[laserman2431]

No, actually as a landman. I did a lot of research for leases, finding out who owns the land, who owns the mineral rights. It was a good job, I am still using those tools and investing in Natural Gas Leases. Paid a lot more than Delta, until Oil has taken a dive.

Asscarpe. Shut up. Nobody cares what bitc4 job you did while you were taking it up the tailpipe from the Comair MEC.

 

[on autopilot]

I'm close to a source who says that the only possibility that is closest to coming true is Comair and Mesaba merging. It could take a year or so and we could shrink more but that's what I hear.

True Tiff. 50 seaters 50 of them going away next year.

 

[acarpe3448]

Asscarpe. Shut up. Nobody cares what bitc4 job you did while you were taking it up the tailpipe from the Comair MEC.

I'll be glad to shut up when Comair furloughs it's last pilot! A little hostile arent you? I guess your career is down the crapper now! I'm so sorry! I'll lose a lot of sleep over it! Now get your applications in at Burger King and shut up!

 

[acarpe3448]

Since you've asked, here's a post from Surplus1, a retired Comair pilot and longtime Comair MEC member, from 2004 to provide some background. Click on the blue icon below for the whole post/thread.

That was about the biggest bunch of bologna I have ever read! Oh well, what comes around goes around! Comair pilots were jerks then and they are jerks now! (New Comair pilots not included) and your careers are not worth a sheet of TP! I think Comair will be history soon, and a lesson to other regionals. Have fun on unemployment!

 

[tiffanytaylor]

Delta buying Comair was one of the worst things to ever happen to Comair. If it weren't for Delta buying us, we wouldn't be in this mess. Delta will miss all the profits we've made for them over the years and could continue to have made for them. If it weren't for bottom-feeding scumbags like Mesa and Chautaqua, Comair wouldn't be in this situation either.

T

 

[flyboyike]

I'll be glad to shut up when Comair furloughs it's last pilot!

Whoever are you going to pick on then? Probably NW pilots for taking something or other.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Delta buying Comair was one of the worst things to ever happen to Comair. If it weren't for Delta buying us, we wouldn't be in this mess. Delta will miss all the profits we've made for them over the years and could continue to have made for them. If it weren't for bottom-feeding scumbags like Mesa and Chautaqua, Comair wouldn't be in this situation either.

T

Ok come on now. Quit listening to all the crusty old comair 70 capts. Im a comair pilot but im sorry its just not true.

Think about this. Without DELTA paying us we make no money. We post a "profit" every quarter because Delta covers all of our cost and guarantees a small percentage profit on every flight. We get paid the same regardless of whether the flight goes out full or empty.

We sell no tickets. No extra baggage fees. No marketing. All done by delta. How do we make a profit for delta?

Its like taking $20 out of your left pocket and putting it in your right pocket and telling yourself that your left pocket just made you $20.

It looks like comair is making delta alot of money on paper but more often than not Delta absorbs a cost of RJ flights.

Now granted we do make money other places. Ground handling for United, Heavy Maint. for Jazz, and Delta AirElite.

RJ's cant make money alone. Its been tried with Ind. Air and express jet(they wouldve made money at this fuel price) and failed miserably.

Now tell me with a straight face that if we had to all of a sudden go at it alone, market these flights, pay for our own fuel, gates, bumped passengers, etc. we would make money?

 

[wmuflyguy]

Ok come on now. Quit listening to all the crusty old comair 70 capts. Im a comair pilot but im sorry its just not true.

Think about this. Without DELTA paying us we make no money. We post a "profit" every quarter because Delta covers all of our cost and guarantees a small percentage profit on every flight. We get paid the same regardless of whether the flight goes out full or empty.

We sell no tickets. No extra baggage fees. No marketing. All done by delta. How do we make a profit for delta?

Its like taking $20 out of your left pocket and putting it in your right pocket and telling yourself that your left pocket just made you $20.

It looks like comair is making delta alot of money on paper but more often than not Delta absorbs a cost of RJ flights.

Now granted we do make money other places. Ground handling for United, Heavy Maint. for Jazz, and Delta AirElite.

RJ's cant make money alone. Its been tried with Ind. Air and express jet(they wouldve made money at this fuel price) and failed miserably.

Now tell me with a straight face that if we had to all of a sudden go at it alone, market these flights, pay for our own fuel, gates, bumped passengers, etc. we would make money?

Easy man....there is no reasoning with some(I know exactly where your coming from, I stopped trying to reason with guys who think Comair is the reason Delta exists).

Without Delta, Comair would never have gotten to be as successful as it was before it was purchased by Delta. Delta made Comair the most profitable regional airline...what it made, it is now taking away.

 

[staylow]

That was about the biggest bunch of bologna I have ever read! Oh well, what comes around goes around! Comair pilots were jerks then and they are jerks now! (New Comair pilots not included) and your careers are not worth a sheet of TP! I think Comair will be history soon, and a lesson to other regionals. Have fun on unemployment!

As a post 2001 Comair pilot hire..."new" as you call us. Let it go...so you got furloughed for 2 1/2 years...you're back at DL now. Let it go...you should be worrying about the merger. Do you think DL and your MEC as your best interest in mind. I don't think so (not with the fencing off of the heavy equipment for five years) for sure. Let go of what happened in 2001. Find some joy...check your bank account on payday...smile with some satisfaction...kick back drink some beers and thank your lucky stars you're not throwing boxes anymore. Then drink a few more.