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COMair in ATL

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bailout

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
988
Last night in ATL a 70 CO was trying to get parked for at least 30-40 minutes and were getting the round around by ops, (switching gates,etc) the Captain asked in an honest, but very frustrated kind of way, "why cant we get parked?" After that exchange went on, the ops person screamed back "well we tried to get you parked quicker at this new gate but if you dont like it you can go back to your original assigned gate and wait for however long it takes and see if you like that." And then of course the radio lit up with comments about Comair bashing.
The point of this post was to let Comair guys know, this is not anything against them, this is a typical day in ATL.
WELCOME!!!
 
I was in ATL 8 times over the last couple of weeks. No weather delays, no flows, gate holds or anything like that. Not once did we depart on time. More than once we left without getting requests for commissary, water or lav service done. The 'work' ethic at the north end of ramp 3 is beyond pathetic. If I were the one calling the shots I'd fire every last one of them. Even starting over with brand new rampies with no experience would be an improvement over whats happening there now. Hats off to my fellow airmen at ASA. How you guys put up with that on a daily basis and still somehow keep a schedule together is beyond me. Next time I'm complaining about the occasional shoddy service in CVG somebody slap me and remind me how good we have it.
 
I was lucky enough to catch the last few months of CVG in the ATR and would like to say a big thanks to the Comair folks, ramp, catering, cleaning - everyone! I can attest to the above post about the sorry conditions here. You have to look at the pool to draw from as far as employees goes here. There IS no work ethic. Last week we got to an airplane that had almost a whole hour on the ground before we got there and nothing had been done. (no surprise) Asked ops for everything and he said it would be a while because they only had one person for catering and one person for cleaning, ON THE ENTIRE D CONCOURSE! Believe me, very few care about doing their best. When I do see it, I make sure to say thanks. Some of the ramp guys told me they need new people but they just shuffle the schedule around instead.......sigh
 
i have been into atlanta a few times lately and to everyones defense who works there on the ground (rampers, gate agents) atlanta needs 100 times more space for ASA and now Comair operations. when you try to park 50 airplanes in the space that shoud hold only 25 your going to have alot of confusion!!!!!!! i have been a ramper once and when you have that many planes and so little space it is hard to figure out where they go..then through in a delayed arrival or departure then its gets even worse!!!
 
WS, I have to tell you it is a bit hard to defend the rampers when you pull up to D-22, NOT ANOTHER PLANE between center-road and 34, see 6 or more sitting on the chairs, slowly get up like they were 90yrs old, talk into their shoulders, shuffle around trying to find wands, try and hit on the females (any) tug drivers, look at the flight sheets, point at each other, ('you do it', 'no, you do it', FINALLLY start to walk to the roadway. If they were walking any slower they'd be backing up. Then they come up with something that looks like appropriate signals, (usually not even close)
I timed it....4min 22sec. Not alot? Try it.
Why?
 
One thing is certain --- Delta's decisions to send Comair to ATL with such frequency will destroy the airlines' (CMR) 25-year record of excellence in performance and customer satisfaction --- system wide. Any Delay creates a chain reaction throughout the system. Sixty delays a day can destroy its efficenecy.

The Atlanta labor pool is a national tragedy. While I agree with Caveman's "fire them all" concept, it can't work in ATL. Whomever you fire will simply be replaced by the same thing. It's a zoo.
 
Oh how nice it is to hear the rants about Atlanta I've been keeping in for so long! We sat for 15 minutes waiting for a gate while 4 ramp workers shared a conversation over our baggage cart. Not another plane in site, and when we asked operations what the hold-up was, we were actually told it wasn't their job (yes, I tried the inbound 132 freq, 129.00 and even ramp 129.27). When we finally arrived the passengers were FURIOUS, since half of them had seen what the hold-up was. One thing I did learn about the trip, however, was that if you want something done, you've got to personally recruit the person to do it. The cleaning people are the ones who will wash your windshield, and suprisingly, they seem happy to do it when you ask them directly. When and if you get fuel seems to be a random function. There's a Comair captain who will nudge his nose into the gate so as to block the access road. I've never been parked faster! Unfortunatly the nice guy in the white Ranger had a few things to say about that. His reasoning (and I'm not making this up) was that the rampies don't know enough to stop when they see an airplane in front of them. They need another rampie to tell them to stop before they impact the side of the fuselage. We've had the fueler drive through our line of arriving passengers. Fortunatly the passengers know enough to stop walking before they impact the side of the fuel truck.
I have to agree, that the one nice thing about ATL ground crews is that it makes me appreciate CVG so much more.
I'm starting to think that the rampies in ATL seemed threatened by Comair's presence. Can't say I blame them if they've been talking to the BUF, ROC or ISP ground-handlers. Regardless, some airplanes and passengers are going to be hurt unless things change.
 
The Atlanta labor pool is a national tragedy. While I agree with Caveman's "fire them all" concept, it can't work in ATL. Whomever you fire will simply be replaced by the same thing. It's a zoo.

Just thank God you don't have to live in this pathetic town !!


All you Comair guys. Please help the ASA pilots out by writing these ramp occurrences up every day. Its the only way things will ever change down here.

Thanks
 
There are similar issues at the US Airways express facility in PHL. I raised heck over an incident recently that involved the "work ethic" on the ramp and got a pretty good response.

One of the things I did was to go to the Airways website, Customer Service page and filed a complaint that began with:

"I was the captain on flight XXXX on this and such date. I am filing this complaint on behalf of the 39 paying passengers who were affected by, blah, blah, blah..."

I got this in an e-mail the next day from HQ:

"... I just received the report from Consumer Affairs. I understand
that you were extremely angry when you [contacted CA]; however,
it's preferable to deal with station issues on a local level rather than that of CA...."

which indicated my note to mainline CS got attention.

Write this stuff up every time. Call dispatch in real time as the incident is unfolding; our calls to dispatch are recorded. Keep your copies of the load reports; they have names/employee #s.

Based on the response of my people and the management at PHL, they took it all seriously. Time will tell whether it actually did any practical good.
 
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Bro,
While I agree written records do go further than just vocal I will tell you that here, every UOR I have written has had the portion which says "Written Reply Requested" box not only checked, but circled, underlined and highlighted. NEVER have I had a reply.
Caveman's outstanding suggestion would clean the pot for a day or two then slide back to current status.
Surplus has it dead on, 'national tragedy'.
I am curious as to how Delta can see these delays everyday all day and not wonder why or at least try and find a solution.
You have throw in 'excellent' decision making from the Flt Cntrl crowd also as a problem also. I brought 56 folks in from MGM the other day 2 hours late because they did not want to swap or find a spare ac. They sent our original plane to CSG almost 1 1/2 hours late so we sat and waited for it to come back. Finally did the MGM rnd trip and then went back to MGM for the overnight. MGM told us EVERY one of the pax missed their connections and had to spend the night in ATL.
Great way to treat the people who pay us.
 
After spending a month in Atlanta I would have to say that Atlanta has the most LAZY people on earth. Nothing gets done quickly and if involves ANY effort forgetaboutit....

YOU know what I am talking about!
 
The benefit of the Comair pilots writing each and every one of these situations up will be to further validate to the company that the ASA pilots are NOT respoinsible for the continuing abysmal service that DELTA provides to its customers. I emphasize Delta because Leo can change this situation if enough pressure is brought to bear.

Unfortunately, ASA is still operated as a nickel and dime operation with the end result that every day is nothing but a dog and pony show.

And we wonder why passengers continue to want to pay discounted prices for tickets. Maybe if they were treated to some real customer service they would pay for it.

On another topic. Anybody at ASA hear the big news yesterday at the G.O. ?????????
 
Caveman said:
I was in ATL 8 times over the last couple of weeks. No weather delays, no flows, gate holds or anything like that. Not once did we depart on time. More than once we left without getting requests for commissary, water or lav service done. The 'work' ethic at the north end of ramp 3 is beyond pathetic. If I were the one calling the shots I'd fire every last one of them. Even starting over with brand new rampies with no experience would be an improvement over whats happening there now. Hats off to my fellow airmen at ASA. How you guys put up with that on a daily basis and still somehow keep a schedule together is beyond me. Next time I'm complaining about the occasional shoddy service in CVG somebody slap me and remind me how good we have it.


Well, they could fire them, but then you have to look at what is out there to replace them with. I don't know if higher pay would allow us hire better quality people, but I doubt the company will try that. Most of us just don't care anymore. You Comair guys will soon learn to not let it bother you, because there is nothing you can do about it. Our management is well aware of the problem, and yet they do almost nothing about it. Semper Fi!
 
rjcap said:
The benefit of the Comair pilots writing each and every one of these situations up will be to further validate to the company that the ASA pilots are NOT respoinsible for the continuing abysmal service that DELTA provides to its customers. I emphasize Delta because Leo can change this situation if enough pressure is brought to bear.

Unfortunately, ASA is still operated as a nickel and dime operation with the end result that every day is nothing but a dog and pony show.

And we wonder why passengers continue to want to pay discounted prices for tickets. Maybe if they were treated to some real customer service they would pay for it.

On another topic. Anybody at ASA hear the big news yesterday at the G.O. ?????????

I saw the memo on FLICA about Nelson D. taking over for Scott Young in contract talks. Does that mean Young is outta there, or just out of the contract business?
 
In response to the ramper situation in ATL, I'm wondering how long its going to be before the Airtran rampers start taking their time to park us at the end of D. I know we only have a fraction of RJ's compared to ASA or Comair in ATL and we (Air Wisconsin) have only been there a few months but the rampers that handle us actually run to thier spots when were pulling in. I even flew with a Capt who is new to ATL (transferred out of ORD/United) who actually made a comment about how they ran out to park us. He said he never saw that in ORD.
Just wondering how long the novelty is going to last for us.
 
New Crew Base???

It was rumored yesterday that Comair sent several of people to Atlanta recently to view the situation. They returned suggesting Comair send people from CVG to work the ramp and to consider making it a crew base. Not anytime soon of course but as a solution the obvious problem. Chime
 
Atr Driver

I am curious as to how Delta can see these delays everyday all day and not wonder why or at least try and find a solution.

They did find the problem and soultion! They continuously blame the pilots and fix it with one hour prior duty-in's.

ATL will never be fixed untill DCI starts paying the rampers higher wages to attract more compitent individuals. I cant tell you how many times I have gone looking for rampers just to find them hiding asleep in the stair wells. The problem here is ERGONOMICS and it will not go away. Heck, every time they get a piss test, we loose 20 of them. We must higher from a greater populace with requirements like a high school education, etc! :rolleyes:
 
Extra300S said:
After spending a month in Atlanta I would have to say that Atlanta has the most LAZY people on earth. Nothing gets done quickly and if involves ANY effort forgetaboutit....

YOU know what I am talking about!

We Atlantans are slow, but inefficient! However, we are the city that's too busy to hate.
 
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Isn't ATL a "hospitality" town? Don't they have a lot of conventions and want people to return? That is what I always ask myself when I am stuck in traffic on 85 South near downtown.
Pretty much you get what you pay for---especially at the airport.

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes: ;)
 
Crosscut

You mean DEMOGRAPHICS?

That would be a Big OOOOPPPPSSS!!!!
Yes, it is Demographics. Thanks for the fix. It's my Lexdicksia! :rolleyes:
 
You could pay these people $50 an hour and what you would have is really lazy people who make $50 an hour. The only change would be they would want to work even less. As i mentioned before, look at the 'pool' they get to hire from....
 
Pay them more and get less work?

Easy fix (In theory) Hire a manager like I had when I was 16 / 17 years old and impose a liberal fine and reward system. Also make ATL and fun place to work with crew / team building. Watch how fast the word gets out that only the best need apply. It is the old Dr. Morgan theory; you want to teach discipline, then discipline. You want to instill and good work ethic, praise and lead. You want to discourage bad behavior, fine, fire and there was my fathers way of wall to wall counseling. (not legal of course)

Kick ass and take names.
 
>>In response to the ramper situation in ATL, I'm wondering how long its going to be before the Airtran rampers start taking their time to park us at the end of D. I know we only have a fraction of RJ's compared to ASA or Comair in ATL and we (Air Wisconsin) have only been there a few months but the rampers that handle us actually run to thier spots when were pulling in. I even flew with a Capt who is new to ATL (transferred out of ORD/United) who actually made a comment about how they ran out to park us. He said he never saw that in ORD.
Just wondering how long the novelty is going to last for us.<<


This should last forever for you (AirTran). This is an ASA issue. We see everybody elses rampers (AirTran, Delta, UsAir, etc)always 'running' to get planes parked.
 
Maybe if ASA played some Gangsta Rap on loud speakers out on the ramp we could at least see if they can move to the beat.
 
The Comair guys don't get it because they have not listened to their "VISION" tapes. Somebody get those cassettes to the Comair cockpits, immediately!

Anyone else notice that Northwest, Airtran, United and American get parked without much fuss. What is different about ASA's ATL operations?

First, the same "efficient cost controls" have resulted in our rampers being the lowest paid for similar work at the airport. But actually, it is not similar work. Delta rampers turn one MD80 in about an hour and forty. The "aircart" and "power cart" are integrated systems that plug in from the jetway with nice, constant, power supplies. They have complex bag routing and tracking systems, while we have a collection of broken bag carts with cities scribbled on the ends, while we try to drag our power and air carts around the ramp with as many as four airplanes per gate and twelve per zone.

All the APU noise, connecting, locating, and ad lib operations takes a toll on these guys and there is absolutely no incentive to move faster because you can never get caught up.

Gordon Bethune implemented a simple reward system at CAL. His bean counters figured out the cost to the company for late and cancelled flights (hotel rooms, pax disruption compensation, etc...) he then took half of that money and allocated it to a bonus program. It worked out to be some where between $35 and $100 a month if the airline met certain criteria. Sure, it was not much money, but enough to take your sweetie to dinner. I think some sort of positive reward would go a long way to both saving the company moeny and motivating employees. Hack, if they steal of our catering cart, they must really need $35.

Second, someone has figured out it is more cost effective to underpay and understaff the ramp and just accept the delays. I for one wish they had spent the money on the rampers and their managers instead of cassette tapes, posters and Commut a' Walks.

~~~^~~~
Paid by the minute, waiting on the ramp with the rest of you...
 
ATL Ramp

If those rampers knew what was good for them they would hustle more (some). If, when Comair comes down to handle thier ATL flights you will see them shape up or get shipped out. The problem is not the workers it is the managment. I saw a ramper work an entire 70 seat flight totally full by himself in the pouring rain. Fuel, bags, pink tags, push. The flight turned in about 35 minutes. This kind of stuff happens everyday in CVG. Pure excellence. Ask the ACA guys how they like the CVG operation compared to BOS and LGA. When we see this everyday and we go to ATL our mouths drop. Companies that operate w/ ASA ATL performance do not survive. It may take time, but this will change. It has too. I really feel sorry for ASA pilots. How do you ever get used to that. I know you guys work hard, you certainly deserve better.
 

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