Comair Flight attendants..

[wanagethi]

arctic flier, noone ever said that alpa was scab free and no one has flown struck work in years, however i also think there needs to be a label for those who continue to bring down the compensation and benefits of our profession, example 1: flying 70's for 50 pay, skywest was the first and now everyone is being pressured to do the same
example 2: flying 90 seaters for less than most carriers 70 seat and some 50 seat pay, the high and mighty jetblue
so if you don't want me calling you the s word what should i call you

 

[wanagethi]

and if i am a jacka$$, i guess i am a jacka$$ that is willing to stand up for what i believe in and without a union i cannot do that without being fired

 

[SSDD]

Ahhhh wanagethi, is it ignorance or selective memory????? You conveniently forget to mention that it was Comair and ASA that started the race to the bottom by agreeing to PFT...to the tune of $10,000

And even though I think SAPA is the worse thing to happen to the Skywest pilots, and I oppssed them on the "18 month" TA, I'm willing to compare W2's with anyone at the Regional level. Hourly rates don't tell the whole story.

 

[ArcticFlier]

I never said ALPA was scab free. Read my post again. It was your reference to SKYW pilots being scabs (that's all inclusive in case you can't figure that out), WHEN WE ARE NON-UNION, shows a level of ignorance that needed to be called out. You can try to redefine things all you want, but it won't fly. You got the proper definition from me earlier in a PM. Deal with that.

Ahhhh wanagethi, is it ignorance or selective memory????? You conveniently forget to mention that it was Comair and ASA that started the race to the bottom by agreeing to PFT...to the tune of $10,000

And even though I think SAPA is the worse thing to happen to the Skywest pilots, and I oppssed them on the "18 month" TA, I'm willing to compare W2's with anyone at the Regional level. Hourly rates don't tell the whole story.

You beat me to it. Me thinks it's a selective memory thing. God forbid the facts get in the way of his redefinition of what a "scab" is.

Nice try though, wanagethi. Play again?


AF

 

[ArcticFlier]

arctic flier, noone ever said that alpa was scab free and no one has flown struck work in years, however i also think there needs to be a label for those who continue to bring down the compensation and benefits of our profession, example 1: flying 70's for 50 pay, skywest was the first and now everyone is being pressured to do the same
example 2: flying 90 seaters for less than most carriers 70 seat and some 50 seat pay, the high and mighty jetblue
so if you don't want me calling you the s word what should i call you

Man, is that hard to read........

You can call me just about anything you want, but make sure it's an accurate label first.

Scab:

1. A worker who refuses membership in an existing labor union.
2. An employee who works while others are on strike; a strikebreaker.
3. A person hired to replace a striking worker.

Took that right from a dictionary. I don't see anywhere in there where it says something/anything about a non-union carrier being scabs (collectively), because they have different work rules than a union one.

Just a thought............so what you are saying is that everytime an employee group agrees to a concession, they are scabs. They are , afterall, bringing "down the compensation and benefits of our profession."

Nice try,

AF

 

[wanagethi]

just answer my question then, if not the s word, what should i call you

 

[CFIT]

just answer my question then, if not the s word, what should i call you

Something that clearly indicates that the person is smarter than yourself, starfish.

 

[ArcticFlier]

just answer my question then, if not the s word, what should i call you

I did.............or is it too intellectually tough for you to come up with on your own, and you need someone to do your thinking for you?

You can call me just about anything you want, but make sure it's an accurate label first.

AF

 

[wanagethi]

ok, how about career killer or compensation slasher or concession concierge

 

[wanagethi]

cfit, how about try having an intelligent debate instead of trying to insult my intelligence, i know enough to know that you are a member of the group that i like to call present day SCABS, define it however you want but to me and thousands of other alpa and hardworking pilots that is what we will call you,

now i am expecting you to insult my intelligence because you can't come up with anything else to write

 

[ArcticFlier]

Your intelligence is called into question because you continue to misuse a derogatory term, pal. Sit on the john and ponder that.

Answer this: If a pilot group takes a concession here or there, does that make them scabs in your view? Based on what you've said, it seems that is your view.

For your viewing pleasure:

"however i also think there needs to be a label for those who continue to bring down the compensation and benefits of our profession...."

You really need to do your research on what a scab truly is, and not just apply terms to groups of people that don't even remotely apply, because you hate them, for whatever reason. I suppose that it makes you feel better at the end of the day, but all it shows is how truly small and infantile you are.

AF

 

[ArcticFlier]

ok, how about career killer or compensation slasher or concession concierge

You mean like just about every legacy carrier pilot? According to your feelings about this, these could all be applied to them as well.

Play Again?


AF

 

[ArcticFlier]

cfit, how about try having an intelligent debate instead of trying to insult my intelligence, i know enough to know that you are a member of the group that i like to call present day SCABS, define it however you want but to me and thousands of other alpa and hardworking pilots that is what we will call you,

now i am expecting you to insult my intelligence because you can't come up with anything else to write

You'll insult other people, but God help me if I insult your intelligence.

Grow up. You're acting like an eight year old.


AF

 

[DrewBlows]

Since we're playing the "meaning of scab" game...

Main Entry: scab
Function: noun
1 : a worker who refuses to join a labor union
2 : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended
3 : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike : [SIZE=-1]STRIKE BREAKER[/SIZE]
4 : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

I wouldn't use the term in this way but apparently enough people do to that dictionary.com feels the need to define it as such.

 

[ArcticFlier]

The intent of number 4 is that you are a union member and are willing to work for less than the going wage for what you are doing, or you are willing to do the job on non-union terms.

Apples and oranges. Otherwise, most pilots would have been on a scab list at some point in their life.



AF

 

[JoeMerchant]

ok, how about career killer or compensation slasher or concession concierge

Sorry, Duane Woerth already has that title......

 

[JoeMerchant]

Since we're playing the "meaning of scab" game...



I wouldn't use the term in this way but apparently enough people do to that dictionary.com feels the need to define it as such.

Does that include union pilots who work for less than union wages? Skywest pilots make more than most "union" wages in this industry......

 

[CFIT]

cfit, how about try having an intelligent debate instead of trying to insult my intelligence, i know enough to know that you are a member of the group that i like to call present day SCABS, define it however you want but to me and thousands of other alpa and hardworking pilots that is what we will call you,

now i am expecting you to insult my intelligence because you can't come up with anything else to write

Based on your repetetive intelligence quote, obviously there's nothing to insult.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Let's work this to it's only conclusion:

What is the going wage for flying the CRJ 200 amongst the regional airlines? http://http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/pay_comparisons/regional_jet_aircraft/crj_200_2006011721.html (Top of the industry if you can't figure that out) Who's the scab?

What is the going rate for flying the EMB 120? I haven't got a clue, but I'll bet we're near the top for 30 pax turboprops. Who's the scab?

You get my point? The union doesnt' set the wage, my friend. The company you work for does.

Equipment pay varies from airline to airline. Are those at the bottom of the list scabs? According to you, wanagethi, they are. Just because we are middle of the pack http://http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/pay_comparisons/regional_jet_aircraft/crj_700_2006011720.html in terms of pay on the -700 we are scabs. We're a dollar under American Eagle, and above Mesa, PSA, and Geaux Jets. I'm not proud of that, but we're hardly bottom of the barrel. You, my friend need to get your head outta your a$$.

Who gets 100% dead head pay. We do. Do you? If not, does that make you the scab?

Who gets 100% mechanical pay? We do. Do you? If not, who's the scab?

Learn what the definition of a scab is, apply it properly, and use it of your own free will. Just make sure the label fits.


AF

 

[B727FA]

This is not to knock Comair pilots, they have been the only stand-up and fight guys in ALPA for the last several years. It's just that the High priced management in Cincinatti and Atlanta have screwed up sooo bad.

Until they agreed to take it up the a$$ in return for "more 70 seat flying." If you trade your contract for growth you deserve what MGT takes you for.

 

[Bizjet]

Does that include union pilots who work for less than union wages? Skywest pilots make more than most "union" wages in this industry......

You are not very bright. SkyWest wants to remain union free so they use the Delta model. They wait until the unions get a raise and then go just above them. The unions actually are carrying the non union pilots on their backs. Jerry Atkin doesn't pay the SkyWest pilots because he likes them he pays them to remain union free. If SkyWest pilots join ALPA his little love fest with the pilots is over. He has no reason to remain pro pilot because they took away his need to be nice. He is no different than any other manager he just has the pilot group dumbed down to believe his B.S. Delta has been successful with this strategy of remaining non union with all but the Pilots and dispatchers. You want to work for Jerry Atkins then apply to SkyWest. I am sure you could get about 1800 letters of recommendation from ASA pilots to assist your move. Make it a two for one and you can probably get 3600 letters. He probably already knows both your names from BL and Ms. Chuckie Viers as not too bright kiss a$$es. You would get a 1.95% raise and ride the backs of the union pilots who pay your way. But you are already doing that. If you were only as bright as you think you are you would be a freaking genius.

 

[Bizjet]

Until they agreed to take it up the a$$ in return for "more 70 seat flying." If you trade your contract for growth you deserve what MGT takes you for.

They lost track of the goals to stay the course. They wanted to grow and sold that to the pilot group instead of remaining neautral. Lead and they will follow. Thank God for Comair F/A's they are the real strength in CVG.

 

[ArcticFlier]

You are not very bright. SkyWest wants to remain union free ............

Really? Then why are we 36 months into an 18 month agreement? Gee, let's piss off the pilots into thinking we like them.

They wait until the unions get a raise and then go just above them.

Let me know when they get a raise.

Jerry Atkin doesn't pay the SkyWest pilots because he likes them he pays them to remain union free.

Then why are we 36 months into an 18 month agreement?

Do some homework, Sport.





AF

 

[blueridge71]

RE: Scab-west

I don't think people really understand what makes you a scab. If you throw the word around about people who don't deserve it, the word will lose it's meaning.

"You keep saying that and I don't think you really know what it means."
-The Princess Bride

 

[Bizjet]

Really? Then why are we 36 months into an 18 month agreement? Gee, let's piss off the pilots into thinking we like them.


Let me know when they get a raise.



Then why are we 36 months into an 18 month agreement?

Do some homework, Sport.
AF

Were you there for the last two failed attempts to organize the SkyWest pilots, Sport? You may have some militant guys who see the need for a union but you can't muster enough votes so JA keeps pushing and you keep caving. Maybe spend more time in the crew room and less on this board and you can make it happen. ALPA is spending a lot of time and money trying to organize your pilots again and again the support seems soft. That is why the cards have not gone out. Pound your chest if you want--the soft support of the majority speaks louder than your B.S. For ALPA there is only so long they will continue to knock on a closed door! If you can't deliver a strong 65% or higher support for ALPA or whatever union you will have a totally divided pilot group and will be tested by management daily.

At ASA we are 96 months into a 48 month agreement. We still have too many pilots carrying the company around on their backs. Management with their anti-union law firms are aware if the vote seems to be getting close they can still sweeten the pay or benefits and many of the former militants will suck it up and be talking trash about how great JA is and how you guys can ride the backs of the union pilots and save that 1.95%. At any time JA thinks your pilots are getting close he can announce he is giving full back pay for the 700 pilots and is giving an industry leading rate to those on the 700. You could have refused to fly the 700 past the 18 months you gave him at one rate until he entered negotiations for a rate but you didn't do that! Your pilots seem to have a history of bending over and waiting for love. Prove us wrong!!

Do some homework, Macho Man.

 

[wings421]

And I thought that this thread was about the Comair flight attendants...

 

[uba757]

18 months ago, when someone's contract began, it was below most of the other regionals out there. Now all the other regionals have to lower their pay to just below your pay. So you went from the bottom in the good times to the top in the bad times. Congrats!!!!!!!! And another thing so you dont think that I am picking on you, I agree with you on the SCAB idea. You are not a SCAB because you work at SKYWEST. But lowering the bar the way you did in the good times and now thinking of how well you have done for yourself and the rest of the regionals out there in the bad times is the definition of an A$$ HO!E. Now if I could only find that dictionary with the pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UBA757

 

[DrewBlows]

The intent of number 4 is that you are a union member and are willing to work for less than the going wage for what you are doing, or you are willing to do the job on non-union terms.

Apples and oranges. Otherwise, most pilots would have been on a scab list at some point in their life.

How the heck do you know what the intent of the definition found on dictionary.com is? It's a definition, it's there because people use the term that way, right or wrong. That's the beauty of language, it's dynamic. Take the word "cool" for example. One might say that "cool" describes a state of temperature, but yet someone else would say it describes a certain demeanor. In this case, both are correct. You may not use the word "cool" to descibe a demeanor, but it doesn't make it incorrect.

cool
adj. cool·er, cool·est

1. Neither warm nor very cold; moderately cold: fresh, cool water; a cool autumn evening.
2. Giving or suggesting relief from heat: a cool breeze; a cool blouse.
3. Marked by calm self-control: a cool negotiator.
4. Marked by indifference, disdain, or dislike; unfriendly or unresponsive: a cool greeting; was cool to the idea of higher taxes.
5. Of, relating to, or characteristic of colors, such as blue and green, that produce the impression of coolness.
6. Slang.
   1. Excellent; first-rate: has a cool sports car; had a cool time at the party.
   2. Acceptable; satisfactory: It's cool if you don't want to talk about it.
7. Slang. Entire; full: worth a cool million.

See how that works? There is more than one definition to a word. The same can be said about the word scab. Some use it one way some use it another. As I said in my first post, I wouldn't chose to label a non-union worker a scab, but some obviously do as evidenced by dictionary.com defining it that way. Agrue the merits of the definition all day long if you want, but at the end of the day any argument you have is your opinion. I can tell you from experience that if you think you can change anyone's mind on Flightinfo, you are mistaken.

Good luck.

 

[AviatorTx]

The intent of number 4 is that you are a union member and are willing to work for less than the going wage for what you are doing, or you are willing to do the job on non-union terms.

I disagree. While I DON'T think Skywest pilots are scabs, G0-Jet pilots fit this description. This is how I justify calling them scabs. Slime is slime. It does not matter if you are union or not.

IMHO, Skywest IS walking a fine line though by not only being non-union, but by doing their part of dragging the rest of the industry down by flying 70 seat planes... For 50 seat PAY. Pathetic.

Where it gets contentious is this: Is one company actually "taking" flying that another carrier WAS doing, or is the carrier simply getting NEW flying that the other carrier was NOT doing? Then you have the whole G0-Jet debacle of taking another carriers planes.

 

[Bizjet]

And I thought that this thread was about the Comair flight attendants...

It is they don't have any scabs and they have bigger gonads than most pilots.