Comair flight 5637, irate pax, watch the video

[ERJdca]

Diesel,

I couldn't agree more with you.

For the others, what's with this "tough guy" attitude about knocking someone out. Yes, this guy definately had some personal ambitions for going over the top but it was legitimate as far as the poor conditions mentioned.

Now, i wasn't there and i only saw 7 or so minutes but the Captain just sat there and kinda chuckled while throwing his hands in the air to every comment. Especially when this pax claimed a baby was sick in the back because of this. He didnt even seem to care. For god sakes get off your butt and look into it, take some control of what little you have. How can you guys say he did the right thing???? Then the captain counted his fingers on what he did. How about standing up in the cabin and addressing exactly was has been done? As pilots we see these delays everyday sitting in the front seat, try sitting in the back in a small RJ with no APU. I think you might be changing your view. The flight attendent appeared to be talking to some rep from the door, why didn't the captain grab him and get him to give some information, after all he is customer service? Very Poor Communication.

I'm a bit embarressed as a pilot to read some of the posts on utube(as well as here) written by "pilots" that make highly unprofessional coments. We just keep giving the public a reason to lower their respect for us. But yet we demand it?

 

[SKYW Pilot]

At Comair it would also be a career risk to refuse an airplane for what the company calls a "passenger comfort" (not safety) issue. The Captain was right, he has pretty much zero power when it comes to canceling a flight. I guess at other airlines the company gives the Captains more autonomy. Must be nice.

Man, that really sucks... My experience at Skywest has been great. The company has consistently backed me up when I've taken a long delay or turned down an aircraft for passenger comfort. The lack of APU, though, in the Summer time is more than passenger comfort. It IS a safety issue especially for kids and elderly passengers.

It helps greatly if a pilot is in the back of the aircraft to field questions or use the FA's PA to make an announcement.

 

[dude100]

Wow, what a weak captain! This passenger had the captain scared and nervous.

How about the captain doing a better job communicating to the passengers the situation...what's being done...what's not being done...why and why not. That would have fix much of the problem.

Next step - Sir, you are interfering with the flight crew. Sit down or I will have you arressted.

I was embarrassed by this captain. I understand customer service / relations...but this guy was abusive and the captain was weak.

I would give our fellow pilot a little more credit. I'm sure he followed all of his company proceedures. There are not any fixes for bad wx and thunderstorms on the ramp. He is at the point were he has almost no options left after that much time on the ramp expect to call a customer service agent. I had an irate pax like that once and told him flat out he could take another flight. If that person had a camera I would tell him to turn it off or I would not talk with him about anything. Next time just close the cockpit door my friend.

 

[dude100]

Wow, what a weak captain! This passenger had the captain scared and nervous.

How about the captain doing a better job communicating to the passengers the situation...what's being done...what's not being done...why and why not. That would have fix much of the problem.

Next step - Sir, you are interfering with the flight crew. Sit down or I will have you arressted.

I was embarrassed by this captain. I understand customer service / relations...but this guy was abusive and the captain was weak.

I would give our fellow pilot a little more credit. I'm sure he followed all of his company proceedures. There are not any fixes for bad wx and thunderstorms on the ramp. He is at the point were he has almost no options left after that much time on the ramp expect to call a customer service agent. I had an irate pax like that once and told him flat out he could take another flight. If that person had a camera I would tell him to turn it off or I would not talk with him about anything. Next time just close the cockpit door my friend.

 

[ERJdca]

I would give our fellow pilot a little more credit. I'm sure he followed all of his company proceedures. There are not any fixes for bad wx and thunderstorms on the ramp. He is at the point were he has almost no options left after that much time on the ramp expect to call a customer service agent. .

PROCEDURES?

What does being a good communicator have to do with company procedures?? What does company procedures have to do with addressing some serious human concerns? I am all for supporting other pilots but come on man? How about calling for medical assistance? I bet if everyone starts calling for that, things might start changing!

He didn't have to call a service rep, the video showed the flight attendant talking to one or at least some type of ramp agent.

Again, the video only showed 7 minutes worth, but those 7 min were pretty poor.

 

[Papa Woody]

I would have used a technique right out of CRM class:

Put one hand on his shoulder, said in a quiet stern voice: "Murray, I don't feel comfortable with this situation." Then with my other hand, I would have proceeded to BEAT THE LIVING CRAP out of him.

 

[Diesel]

Yeah i'm sure that's what you would do tough guy. Hey lets beat the pax up instead of actually dealing with the problem which is completely understandable the company and the captain put them in.

 

[Allen1]

The fact is the FAR's gives the PIC all the authority he needs. If the company tries to fire him you simply get a lawyer and sue for wrongful termination and you don't worry about work or bills again. I sit in the back of RJ's all the time and even with an apu working the airflow sucks. With an apu inop it's horrible and the captain should know this. Bottom line is he had the authority to get them off the plane and I used to fly into JFK with a connection operation. They have buses that can take these people off. Stop asking people to do something and TELL them what you are doing!

 

[Hobit]

This guy, David Ollila, is apparently the president of a "POV/Hidden Camera" company and is using this video as a sales tool on his website.

http://vio-pov.com/flight.php

Seems to me that he took a hot-button issue and used it to get a little free advertising for his product...shrewd marketing, really.

So, who wants to be the first to kick this guy off your aircraft (now that he's probably "no longer flying Delta")?

You can go to the link and register this guy's company website for updates on his own company.

This dork videographer's company email is on the link. They ask is you'd like to register an email for product information. Why can't we use their own email addy?

 

[SBD]

Man, that really sucks... My experience at Skywest has been great. The company has consistently backed me up when I've taken a long delay or turned down an aircraft for passenger comfort. The lack of APU, though, in the Summer time is more than passenger comfort. It IS a safety issue especially for kids and elderly passengers.

It helps greatly if a pilot is in the back of the aircraft to field questions or use the FA's PA to make an announcement.

You say that the company backs you up, yet if an incident ever happened something not related to this or even this situation, you wouldn't be protected.

 

[Flybet3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHXUXIFKccc

double post

This is what I would've said...
Me:
"Well sir, I apoligize for the inconvenience. I assure you that I've done everything within my reach to get you folks out of this airplane safely. But it's out of my hands now"

Pax:
Are you the pilot in command? Where's your authority? Are you not in charge? Do you realize you realize there's an infant here?

Me:
"Sir I'm going to have to ask you to turn that camera off, take your seat and walk in to this cockpit again"

Pax:
"Yeah! But!...."

Me:
"HEY! GET OUT OF MY COCKPIT! AND TAKE YOUR SEAT OR I WILL PERSONALLY TAKE YOU DOWN FOR ENTERING THIS COCKPIT WITHOUT PERMISSION!!!
NOW TAKE YOUR SEAT!"

Pax:
"Hey you cant talk to m....."

Me:
"NOOOOWWWWWW!!"

 

[spitfire1500]

This is why I'm flying freight!!!....

 

[regionaltard]

So he opened the cockpit door and attempted to communicate with a piece of self-loading cargo. Nice.

 

[Huck]

Two things:

1. That captain doesn't have kids. Or he has very neglected kids.

2. This ain't your father's Comair. I remember when they had balls of steel....

 

[PA31Driver]

Bottom line is he had the authority to get them off the plane and I used to fly into JFK with a connection operation. They have buses that can take these people off. Stop asking people to do something and TELL them what you are doing!

Unfortunately the bus isn't that easy to get either. This happened at JFK last week....we returned to the gate because our route of flight was shut down due to T-storms. OF course when we got to the gate, Delta ramp said the port authority closed the ramp because of lightning in the area and nobody would be allowed to deplane. They wouldn't even send a bus out. Since it was hot and humid inside the cabin, we opened up the main cabin door and the emergency exits to cross ventilate the airplane. We sat there for an hour and a half. Then came a break in the weather and the lightning stopped but they still wouldn't let us deplane or send a customer service agent out to the plane. I eventually called the airport manager only to find out that they had not closed any ramp! The Delta ramp was lying to us. So that was when I TOLD the ramp controller that we will be deplaning the pax before the next round of weather came back and that's exactly what we did. We escorted the pax off the airplane and into the terminal with the help of all crew members.

I'm really glad the regional chief pilot backed me up on this one. Although I hear Delta isn't too happy about that. Oh well....

It is unfortunate that we had to take this extreme step but that is the only way to get things done on the Delta ramp at JFK. That place is a mess.

 

[Diesel]

This is what I would've said...
Me:
"Well sir, I apoligize for the inconvenience. I assure you that I've done everything within my reach to get you folks out of this airplane safely. But it's out of my hands now"

Pax:
Are you the pilot in command? Where's your authority? Are you not in charge? Do you realize you realize there's an infant here?

Me:
"Sir I'm going to have to ask you to turn that camera off, take your seat and walk in to this cockpit again"

Pax:
"Yeah! But!...."

Me:
"HEY! GET OUT OF MY COCKPIT! AND TAKE YOUR SEAT OR I WILL PERSONALLY TAKE YOU DOWN FOR ENTERING THIS COCKPIT WITHOUT PERMISSION!!!
NOW TAKE YOUR SEAT!"

Pax:
"Hey you cant talk to m....."

Me:
"NOOOOWWWWWW!!" __________________

All a veiled attempt at covering up the fact that you are doing nothing for the situation, for the sick infant, or the puking pax.

Ooooh i'm just going to close the door on the pax. Oooh that showed them. Nope it just showed them that you're spineless and are trying to hide behind the door instead of dealing with the real problem. Your inadequate ability to make a command decision.

 

[igneousy2]

At Comair it would also be a career risk to refuse an airplane for what the company calls a "passenger comfort" (not safety) issue. The Captain was right, he has pretty much zero power when it comes to canceling a flight. I guess at other airlines the company gives the Captains more autonomy. Must be nice.

no, the captain would be hard pressed at just about any company. It would be pretty hard to justify an APU as a safety issue during any carpet dance - everyone here saying he should have done this or that is full of crap - I have never seen a Captain refuse an airplane because of an inop APU. I call BS to anyone who says that they would.

An inop APU is not a bid deal if you have ground conditioned air or if you don't shut an engine down until you have ground conditioned air. Obviouslly this was a very unusual set of circumstances. I probably would have been outside dragging an AC cart up to the airplane to get some Air going...but that's just me. Probably even consider popping the emergency exits.

Later

 

[172driver]

Wtfo?

 

[CA1900]

...everyone here saying he should have done this or that is full of crap - I have never seen a Captain refuse an airplane because of an inop APU. I call BS to anyone who says that they would.

I have, on multiple occasions, refused an aircraft with an inoperative freon air conditioner (a 1900), and there wasn't another aircraft available. In the most recent case, it delayed the flight for three and a half hours, and despite the endless whining from the gate and my dispatchers, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

The inside of the airplane was not safe for passengers, it's as simple as that. If I had put a kid in a car that hot, I'd have been locked up for child abuse. That's not "BS," that's doing the unpopular thing because it's the right thing to do.

An inop APU is not a bid deal if you have ground conditioned air or if you don't shut an engine down until you have ground conditioned air.

If you're talking about a CRJ-200, I'll respectfully disagree. On a hot day, the engines absolutely cannot put out enough bleed air to cool the airplane at anything close to idle power. Unless the taxi time is under 5 minutes, it is a big deal.

 

[Huck]

I have never seen a Captain refuse an airplane because of an inop APU.

I did it, on both the EMB120 and the CRJ, at ASA.

Checked with the chief pilot (Cromer) and he said he would have only gotten mad if I had asked for permission first.