Comair Concessions: Raise the Bar!

[Treme]

Ok. So the Delta pilots are in a world of hurt. They're making an average of 20% more than their peers at other companies.

The common belief is that at airlines such as US Airways and United the employee contracts allowed the airlines to price themselves out of the market.

Unfortunately it seems that industry leaders are not always competitive -- especially in an industry that is changing and maturing almost daily.

As I thought about this today I started to wonder if it would be possible for the Comair pilots to make market-based adjustments without "lowering the bar".

After all, the strike was over two years ago. A lot has changed in two-plus years. Certainly the industry is nothing like what it was then.

Today every Tom, Dick, and Harry has regional jets and, like the article in the Cincy Enquirer said, regional jets are simply a commodity.

When I pay for internet access or hire a contracter to build a deck for me, I look for the least expensive contracter from whome I can still expect quality work.

My personal opinion? The Delta pilots pay and benefit scales are no longer competitive in the industry.

The US Airways, United, and American pilots all took concessions to ensure the long-term viability of their companies.

The Delta pilots will, sooner than later, have to make market-based adjustments to their PWA. Costs can simply not be that far out of whack with the competition.

Similarly, I believe the Comair pilots should be receptive to change -- NOT give away the farm mind you. After all, they weathered an 89 day strike to get the contract they have now. They deserve to have industry leading compensation and work rules.

With that in mind, Delta will be looking to give DCI growth to the lowest cost provider. Yes, Comair is making a profit. And since Delta sells the seats for DCI, they will profit regardless of WHO does the DCI flying. Someone will get the growth. Perhaps rather than shouting, "NO" at the top of their lungs, the Comair pilots could use this opportunity to make some contractual advancements that they were NOT able to acquire during the strike.

2 years ago the Comair pilots set the bar in Compensation, Work Rules, Retirement, and productivity. The only thing that they truly NEEDED but were unable to attain was scope.

The Comair pilots need to get some strong contractual language that defines what flying they OWN -- language that prevents that flying from being outsourced and commits Delta to place all additional flying at Comair/ASA.

Without ownership of flying -- whether that flying be defined by city-pairs, aircraft type, aircraft size ... however you choose to define it -- the whipsaw will continue indefinately... the race to the bottom will go on.

The Comair pilots were industry leaders two years ago. Now they have the opportunity to once again be industry leaders.

Instead of yelling "no concessions", they could open an IMMEDIATE dialogue with management and say the following:

"Randy, We'll give you some market based concessions. We'll make adjustments to our compensation and work rules that make Comair a competitive force as a small-jet provider. In exchange, though, we're going to require more than just promises of growth. We need iron clad contractual language that DEFINES our flying... secures our jobs... and prevents outsourcing. We need job security."

THAT, in my opinion would raise the bar yet again. It would show that the Comair pilots have the wisdom to secure the long term viability of their company by ensuring its ability to compete -- and the BALLS to raise the bar again by putting a stop to the whipsaw and defending the careers of their most junior pilots.

Saying no is the wrong approach. Saying no condemns Comair to a slow, painful shrinkage (see Allegheny/Piedmont), and the loss of many, many jobs.

Saying, "Maybe" is the right answer. Send the negotiating committee back and tell them to save Comair -- before its too late.

 

[General Lee]

Treme,

You can't compare Delta to the other Majors because Delta only has ONE union and ONE contract to deal with---the pilot's. We have paid union dues ---or protection money---each month to take care of us. The other employee groups have not---and they put their trust in managment. Unfortunately, that will not help them now. The other airlines have to deal with all of the unions at each airline, and their contracts restrict them. Not at Delta. Also, when you compare aircraft size and pilot pay at the LCC's--we are paid about the same or less per seat per hour. Here is the analogy:

Let's say I was a 7 year 767 FO at Delta, making $150 or so an hour, compared to being a 7 year pilot at Airtran---which would be a 717 Capt making $145 an hour. The Airtran 717 has about 130 seats I believe---which would mean that per hour each passenger would be paying me about $1.07. On the 767, each passenger would be paying me about 70 cents an hour. If I were an MD-88 FO making $140 an hour---that would equal around the same as the airtran Capt--about $1.07 per hour from each passenger. What I am pointing out here is that pilot pay costs are about the same depending on the years of service. The passengers are paying about the same to the pilots at both airlines, it's just that Delta has larger planes and larger salaries---and Airtran pilots would get larger raises if they got larger planes. We didn't price ourselves out of the market---Delta has to fix other parts of the airline to compete better. We still make a little over $1.00 an hour from each passenger----which is reasonable. The fact that we have 777s with close to 300 seats is irrelevant. Maybe mangement costs need to come down.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Treme]

General,

This thread is not about Delta.

There are Comair pilots who believe that Delta pilots will have to take concessions in order to remain competitive, but who are unable to look in the mirror and see that they are in the same boat.

This is about finding a way to allow the company to be cost competitive into the future WITHOUT "lowering the bar" -- and while securing sorely needed protections for the pilot group.

You have your problems, and the Comair pilots obviously have problems of their own. Sorry I used your airline as an example, but I'd rather not hijack the thread to discuss it.

 

[General Lee]

Treme,

I understand, and I am sorry if I hijacked it. You guys are in the same boat as we are---since we are both the highest paid compared to others in our peer group. Your regional industry is diving towards the bottom because the need for pay has given to the need for growth. Our industry has seen the growth of LCCs due to the poor economy, which is now rising again. The internet will still keep fares lower than before, but a better economy wil cause more people to fly---which will be good for the Majors and LCCs. Your regionals, on the otherhand, are following the lead of growth hungry airlines---like Mesa, Chataqua, and Skywest ---which will lower the bar for the chance at a higher percentage of flying---to the delight of the Majors. My rant is over---sorry.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

I don't want to hijack the thread either, but I have to applaud General Lee for his GREAT EXAMPLE - that was one of the best descriptions I have ever read about pilot pay vs. unit/seat costs...

Well done.

As for the Comair pilots, stay strong and hold the line!!!!!!!!

 

[ACE]

Treme,

I think you 100% correct. I have been weighing the pros and cons and fact is we have NO protection. As much as I hate to say it, I think opening our PWA is inevitable.

Also you should know by now the General is going to hijack any Comair related thread. I personally just skip over anything he writes. It always the same thing.."Comair pilots will never be hired at Delta...blah...blah....blah......Dalpa controls Comairs flying....blah...blah...blah...You are suing us for our jobs.....blah...blah....blah...." . He is a broken record that needs to get a new tune and another hobby.

 

[General Lee]

Ace,

Thanks-- I am glad you skip over my posts. Sound reasoning must escape you. Bye Bye!!! Enjoy!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Treme]

geez...I have to admit I was hesitent to post this. I assumed that I would get a hundred responses from very angry pilots who risked their livlihood for 89 days and are not willing to give up a penny.

I thought for sure there would be an angry mob outside with pitchforks and torches.

My only responses were from one Delta guy and one Comair captain who agrees with me..

I'm shocked! I figured this would be a 3 page "I hate Treme" post by this morning. I actually weighed that expected response against my concern that the MEC was taking the wrong direction and decided to post anyway.

-Still concerned

 

[surplus1]

Similarly, I believe the Comair pilots should be receptive to change -- NOT give away the farm mind you. After all, they weathered an 89 day strike to get the contract they have now. They deserve to have industry leading compensation and work rules.

With that in mind, Delta will be looking to give DCI growth to the lowest cost provider. Yes, Comair is making a profit. And since Delta sells the seats for DCI, they will profit regardless of WHO does the DCI flying. Someone will get the growth. Perhaps rather than shouting, "NO" at the top of their lungs, the Comair pilots could use this opportunity to make some contractual advancements that they were NOT able to acquire during the strike.

2 years ago the Comair pilots set the bar in Compensation, Work Rules, Retirement, and productivity. The only thing that they truly NEEDED but were unable to attain was scope.

The Comair pilots need to get some strong contractual language that defines what flying they OWN -- language that prevents that flying from being outsourced and commits Delta to place all additional flying at Comair/ASA.

Without ownership of flying -- whether that flying be defined by city-pairs, aircraft type, aircraft size ... however you choose to define it -- the whipsaw will continue indefinately... the race to the bottom will go on.

The Comair pilots were industry leaders two years ago. Now they have the opportunity to once again be industry leaders.

Instead of yelling "no concessions", they could open an IMMEDIATE dialogue with management and say the following:

"Randy, We'll give you some market based concessions. We'll make adjustments to our compensation and work rules that make Comair a competitive force as a small-jet provider. In exchange, though, we're going to require more than just promises of growth. We need iron clad contractual language that DEFINES our flying... secures our jobs... and prevents outsourcing. We need job security."

THAT, in my opinion would raise the bar yet again. It would show that the Comair pilots have the wisdom to secure the long term viability of their company by ensuring its ability to compete -- and the BALLS to raise the bar again by putting a stop to the whipsaw and defending the careers of their most junior pilots.

Saying no is the wrong approach. Saying no condemns Comair to a slow, painful shrinkage (see Allegheny/Piedmont), and the loss of many, many jobs.

Saying, "Maybe" is the right answer. Send the negotiating committee back and tell them to save Comair -- before its too late.

Treme,

Your premise is interesting and appears to include a lot of logic. However the key word here is "appears". Things are not always what they appear to be.

Your profile says you are "furloughed". That "appears" to indicate that you are not a Comair pilot, but the truth is I don't know. Are you a Comair pilot or are you a concerned outsider offering what you see as an objective opinion? What's my point? Simple, "appearances" are not always what they seem to be.

Your concept is not new, it is not different when seen by Comair pilots, and it has not escaped Comair pilot leaders. Basically, you have said that we should consider buying our job security with concessions, and that we should go to the table and do so, immediately, or face gloom and doom. That may sound like a good idea and worth considering, and I'll go so far as to say you are correct.

What you don't seem to know is that we have already considered that option and our management is not unaware that we have. Maybe we missed something along the way and perhaps you can help us, so permit me to ask a few questions and make a few observations.

1. You point out that we took a long strike to "raise the bar". That strike reportedly cost Delta airlines, according to its own numbers, $700 million dollars in 90-days, yet you say, "The only thing that they truly NEEDED but were unable to attain was scope." Without argueing about what we "needed", my first question is this.

If we could not purchase, during the industry's good times, the scope that we needed, with $700 million dollars of "costs to Delta" that could have been avoided , how will we buy that today with the alleged $8 million per year that the Company would like us to give up?

2. The second question is this: Whom should we "buy" this job security from?

Since the Company known as Comair does not itself "own" any flying that it can sell to anyone, how can Comair pilots buy "growth" and job security from Comair. If we agree tomorrow to give Comair whatever concessions they may want, is Comair in a position to offer us anything in return? The answer is NO.

The truth is that the day after we make such an agreement with Comair, Delta could decide to give all the future growth, whatever that might be, to Chautauqua or Skywest, just as it can today. Unless Delta itself decides to negotiate directly with us, the fact is that Comair pilots have no one with whom to bargain. Unless Delta decides to sign this new contract itself, it would have zero effect on what happens or does not happen to the future of Comairs' pilots.

Your "quote to Randy" sounds neat, but it includes several inaccurate presumptions. First, Comair leadership has NOT refused dialogue with our management. The door is open and always has been. "Randy" already knows that we will talk and "Randy" already knows what we might need. The fact is that "Randy" is not in a position to give "iron clad guarantees" about anything. He knows that too, and so do we. Obviously, you don't understand (or choose not to).

3. Third question. Do YOU understand why we do not bargain directly with our real employer?

Apparently you don't understand that, so maybe I can help. Delta itself is the controlling party. Only Delta can decide if Comair grows, remains stagnant or shrinks. The keys to the kingdom belong exclusively to Delta Air Lines and NOT to a paper entity known as Comair. Delta can bargain with Comair pilots if it wants to. Delta can put its signature on the "iron clad guarantees" that you think we should ask for. Delta knows that's what we want and that's what we need. Delta, and Delta alone, is the only entity that can make any enforceable agreement with the Comair pilot group. Unless Delta signs the "guarantees", they don't really exist. Delta has NOT refused to talk to Comair pilots.

So why don't we get on with it? Simple; the bargaining agent of Comairs' pilots is not the Comair MEC nor the Comair Negotiating Committe. The bargaining agent is the Air Line Pilots Association, ALPA.

During our past negotiations and prior to our strike, Comair leadership requested that Delta bargain directly with Comairs' pilots. Delta responded, cleverly, by saying that it would bargain with whomever ALPA chose to designate, in writing. ALPA responded also, in writing, and refused to permit Comair pilots to bargain directly with Delta. ALPA has not changed that position.

Reality is, the union that allegedly represents the interests of Comairs' pilots refuses to allow Comairs' pilots to bargain directly with the only party that has the power to make a meaningful agreement, i.e., Delta Air Lines.

Under those circumstances Comairs' pilots are able to "give away" whatever they want to, but they are unable to get anything in exchange from the only party that has any power to make a binding deal.

So you see my friend, Comair pilots are not unreceptive to change. We aren't "yelling no concessions" and Comair pilots are not "shouting NO at the top of their lungs". You just don't have the "big picture". If and when Comairs' pilots have someone to bargain with, it is very possible that an agreement could be achieved. Until we have that option, there is no entity available that can do any of the things you suggest we should consider.

If there is a "problem" in your perceptions, the problem is that Comair pilots are not as naive as you think we are. We may be based in Kentucky, but we did not fall off of a turnip truck.

What do YOU think we should do next? If you have any answers to the real problems, please offer them. We are always open to substantive suggestions.

PS. As an aside, about a year ago Delta made a "deal" to protect the pensions of certain of its executives. That little item reportedly cost the Company $65 millions. That alone is the equivalent of the assumed value of 8 consecutive years + one million of the "concessions" that Comair pilots are being asked to provide to make Comair "competitive". These little things just fascinate me.

PPS. I can't match the General's sound reasoning but that is to be expected. Afterall, he's a Delta pilot. (Don't shoot GL, it's only in fun).

 

[Treme]

Certainly meant no offense Surplus -- and wouldnt even presume to suggest that I have the same understanding of the situation that you do. This is not an RJDC thread! At least I hope that it won't become one.

If I own ABC airlines and I choose to contract out flying to a small-jet provider I am going to look at all of the quality small-jet providers and hire the one who can do the job for the least $$$. Regional jets are no longer a product that is unique to a few airlines. EVERYONE has them and the customer can not tell the difference between Comair and Chautauqua and ACA and Mesa.

There are 300 pilots on the Comair property that are NOT protected by the "no-furlough" clause in the PWA. 300 potential prisoners-of-war!

What I do NOT see is any action being taken to protect them!

I do NOT see ongoing negotiations with management to solve each others problems.

Maybe you're right and what i'm asking for can not be achieved in negotiations with Comair management. That does not change the fact that the company needs a competitive cost structure, and that the pilots need -- at least the junior pilots need -- a little job security (instead of threatening letters from Don O).

Meanwhile the pilot group needlessly squabbles amongst themselves...threatens to recall the MEC chairman (which would result in the resignation in a dozen-odd committee members and the loss of a significant amount of institutional knowledge and experience).

Ok. I can buy that. When the leadership manages to get their head on straight I would like to hear their proposal regarding how to solve the problems -- both the company problems and the pilot problems. The company made their proposal and the union (rightfully) found it unacceptable. Just because they may not be able to compete in the latest bid-for-flying is no reason to hamstring the company with a cost structure that is not competitive with other regional jet providers.

Again -- i'm not saying that we have to lower the bar. Management has stated that any concessions that we take would still leave us as the highest compensated pilots of our equipment in the nation. I'm saying that 8 million isn't a whole lot of cash. We could easily come up with "fluff" in the PWA that could save that -- hopefully in exchange for a little bit of job security for those of us on the bottom.

I see your point that Delta pulls the strings. Can Randy not call over to Delta and make a deal? HIS career is on the line as well. HIS airline. They've got to work with the pilot group to achieve the mutual goals...am I wrong?

Ultimately, I dont have a vote and the more senior Comair pilots are probably glad that I dont. I was hired just a few short months ago and the only thing I have to lose is this job.

All I'm saying is that the strike was over 2 years ago. The industry had changed (and continues to change by the day) since then. The Comair pilots need to change with it. Think i'm being emotional? Darned right I am. It's my career too.

Respectfully,
Treme