Comair Concessions: Raise the Bar!

[Treme]

Ok. So the Delta pilots are in a world of hurt. They're making an average of 20% more than their peers at other companies.

The common belief is that at airlines such as US Airways and United the employee contracts allowed the airlines to price themselves out of the market.

Unfortunately it seems that industry leaders are not always competitive -- especially in an industry that is changing and maturing almost daily.

As I thought about this today I started to wonder if it would be possible for the Comair pilots to make market-based adjustments without "lowering the bar".

After all, the strike was over two years ago. A lot has changed in two-plus years. Certainly the industry is nothing like what it was then.

Today every Tom, Dick, and Harry has regional jets and, like the article in the Cincy Enquirer said, regional jets are simply a commodity.

When I pay for internet access or hire a contracter to build a deck for me, I look for the least expensive contracter from whome I can still expect quality work.

My personal opinion? The Delta pilots pay and benefit scales are no longer competitive in the industry.

The US Airways, United, and American pilots all took concessions to ensure the long-term viability of their companies.

The Delta pilots will, sooner than later, have to make market-based adjustments to their PWA. Costs can simply not be that far out of whack with the competition.

Similarly, I believe the Comair pilots should be receptive to change -- NOT give away the farm mind you. After all, they weathered an 89 day strike to get the contract they have now. They deserve to have industry leading compensation and work rules.

With that in mind, Delta will be looking to give DCI growth to the lowest cost provider. Yes, Comair is making a profit. And since Delta sells the seats for DCI, they will profit regardless of WHO does the DCI flying. Someone will get the growth. Perhaps rather than shouting, "NO" at the top of their lungs, the Comair pilots could use this opportunity to make some contractual advancements that they were NOT able to acquire during the strike.

2 years ago the Comair pilots set the bar in Compensation, Work Rules, Retirement, and productivity. The only thing that they truly NEEDED but were unable to attain was scope.

The Comair pilots need to get some strong contractual language that defines what flying they OWN -- language that prevents that flying from being outsourced and commits Delta to place all additional flying at Comair/ASA.

Without ownership of flying -- whether that flying be defined by city-pairs, aircraft type, aircraft size ... however you choose to define it -- the whipsaw will continue indefinately... the race to the bottom will go on.

The Comair pilots were industry leaders two years ago. Now they have the opportunity to once again be industry leaders.

Instead of yelling "no concessions", they could open an IMMEDIATE dialogue with management and say the following:

"Randy, We'll give you some market based concessions. We'll make adjustments to our compensation and work rules that make Comair a competitive force as a small-jet provider. In exchange, though, we're going to require more than just promises of growth. We need iron clad contractual language that DEFINES our flying... secures our jobs... and prevents outsourcing. We need job security."

THAT, in my opinion would raise the bar yet again. It would show that the Comair pilots have the wisdom to secure the long term viability of their company by ensuring its ability to compete -- and the BALLS to raise the bar again by putting a stop to the whipsaw and defending the careers of their most junior pilots.

Saying no is the wrong approach. Saying no condemns Comair to a slow, painful shrinkage (see Allegheny/Piedmont), and the loss of many, many jobs.

Saying, "Maybe" is the right answer. Send the negotiating committee back and tell them to save Comair -- before its too late.

 

[General Lee]

Treme,

You can't compare Delta to the other Majors because Delta only has ONE union and ONE contract to deal with---the pilot's. We have paid union dues ---or protection money---each month to take care of us. The other employee groups have not---and they put their trust in managment. Unfortunately, that will not help them now. The other airlines have to deal with all of the unions at each airline, and their contracts restrict them. Not at Delta. Also, when you compare aircraft size and pilot pay at the LCC's--we are paid about the same or less per seat per hour. Here is the analogy:

Let's say I was a 7 year 767 FO at Delta, making $150 or so an hour, compared to being a 7 year pilot at Airtran---which would be a 717 Capt making $145 an hour. The Airtran 717 has about 130 seats I believe---which would mean that per hour each passenger would be paying me about $1.07. On the 767, each passenger would be paying me about 70 cents an hour. If I were an MD-88 FO making $140 an hour---that would equal around the same as the airtran Capt--about $1.07 per hour from each passenger. What I am pointing out here is that pilot pay costs are about the same depending on the years of service. The passengers are paying about the same to the pilots at both airlines, it's just that Delta has larger planes and larger salaries---and Airtran pilots would get larger raises if they got larger planes. We didn't price ourselves out of the market---Delta has to fix other parts of the airline to compete better. We still make a little over $1.00 an hour from each passenger----which is reasonable. The fact that we have 777s with close to 300 seats is irrelevant. Maybe mangement costs need to come down.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Treme]

General,

This thread is not about Delta.

There are Comair pilots who believe that Delta pilots will have to take concessions in order to remain competitive, but who are unable to look in the mirror and see that they are in the same boat.

This is about finding a way to allow the company to be cost competitive into the future WITHOUT "lowering the bar" -- and while securing sorely needed protections for the pilot group.

You have your problems, and the Comair pilots obviously have problems of their own. Sorry I used your airline as an example, but I'd rather not hijack the thread to discuss it.

 

[General Lee]

Treme,

I understand, and I am sorry if I hijacked it. You guys are in the same boat as we are---since we are both the highest paid compared to others in our peer group. Your regional industry is diving towards the bottom because the need for pay has given to the need for growth. Our industry has seen the growth of LCCs due to the poor economy, which is now rising again. The internet will still keep fares lower than before, but a better economy wil cause more people to fly---which will be good for the Majors and LCCs. Your regionals, on the otherhand, are following the lead of growth hungry airlines---like Mesa, Chataqua, and Skywest ---which will lower the bar for the chance at a higher percentage of flying---to the delight of the Majors. My rant is over---sorry.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

I don't want to hijack the thread either, but I have to applaud General Lee for his GREAT EXAMPLE - that was one of the best descriptions I have ever read about pilot pay vs. unit/seat costs...

Well done.

As for the Comair pilots, stay strong and hold the line!!!!!!!!

 

[ACE]

Treme,

I think you 100% correct. I have been weighing the pros and cons and fact is we have NO protection. As much as I hate to say it, I think opening our PWA is inevitable.

Also you should know by now the General is going to hijack any Comair related thread. I personally just skip over anything he writes. It always the same thing.."Comair pilots will never be hired at Delta...blah...blah....blah......Dalpa controls Comairs flying....blah...blah...blah...You are suing us for our jobs.....blah...blah....blah...." . He is a broken record that needs to get a new tune and another hobby.

 

[General Lee]

Ace,

Thanks-- I am glad you skip over my posts. Sound reasoning must escape you. Bye Bye!!! Enjoy!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Treme]

geez...I have to admit I was hesitent to post this. I assumed that I would get a hundred responses from very angry pilots who risked their livlihood for 89 days and are not willing to give up a penny.

I thought for sure there would be an angry mob outside with pitchforks and torches.

My only responses were from one Delta guy and one Comair captain who agrees with me..

I'm shocked! I figured this would be a 3 page "I hate Treme" post by this morning. I actually weighed that expected response against my concern that the MEC was taking the wrong direction and decided to post anyway.

-Still concerned

 

[surplus1]

Similarly, I believe the Comair pilots should be receptive to change -- NOT give away the farm mind you. After all, they weathered an 89 day strike to get the contract they have now. They deserve to have industry leading compensation and work rules.

With that in mind, Delta will be looking to give DCI growth to the lowest cost provider. Yes, Comair is making a profit. And since Delta sells the seats for DCI, they will profit regardless of WHO does the DCI flying. Someone will get the growth. Perhaps rather than shouting, "NO" at the top of their lungs, the Comair pilots could use this opportunity to make some contractual advancements that they were NOT able to acquire during the strike.

2 years ago the Comair pilots set the bar in Compensation, Work Rules, Retirement, and productivity. The only thing that they truly NEEDED but were unable to attain was scope.

The Comair pilots need to get some strong contractual language that defines what flying they OWN -- language that prevents that flying from being outsourced and commits Delta to place all additional flying at Comair/ASA.

Without ownership of flying -- whether that flying be defined by city-pairs, aircraft type, aircraft size ... however you choose to define it -- the whipsaw will continue indefinately... the race to the bottom will go on.

The Comair pilots were industry leaders two years ago. Now they have the opportunity to once again be industry leaders.

Instead of yelling "no concessions", they could open an IMMEDIATE dialogue with management and say the following:

"Randy, We'll give you some market based concessions. We'll make adjustments to our compensation and work rules that make Comair a competitive force as a small-jet provider. In exchange, though, we're going to require more than just promises of growth. We need iron clad contractual language that DEFINES our flying... secures our jobs... and prevents outsourcing. We need job security."

THAT, in my opinion would raise the bar yet again. It would show that the Comair pilots have the wisdom to secure the long term viability of their company by ensuring its ability to compete -- and the BALLS to raise the bar again by putting a stop to the whipsaw and defending the careers of their most junior pilots.

Saying no is the wrong approach. Saying no condemns Comair to a slow, painful shrinkage (see Allegheny/Piedmont), and the loss of many, many jobs.

Saying, "Maybe" is the right answer. Send the negotiating committee back and tell them to save Comair -- before its too late.

Treme,

Your premise is interesting and appears to include a lot of logic. However the key word here is "appears". Things are not always what they appear to be.

Your profile says you are "furloughed". That "appears" to indicate that you are not a Comair pilot, but the truth is I don't know. Are you a Comair pilot or are you a concerned outsider offering what you see as an objective opinion? What's my point? Simple, "appearances" are not always what they seem to be.

Your concept is not new, it is not different when seen by Comair pilots, and it has not escaped Comair pilot leaders. Basically, you have said that we should consider buying our job security with concessions, and that we should go to the table and do so, immediately, or face gloom and doom. That may sound like a good idea and worth considering, and I'll go so far as to say you are correct.

What you don't seem to know is that we have already considered that option and our management is not unaware that we have. Maybe we missed something along the way and perhaps you can help us, so permit me to ask a few questions and make a few observations.

1. You point out that we took a long strike to "raise the bar". That strike reportedly cost Delta airlines, according to its own numbers, $700 million dollars in 90-days, yet you say, "The only thing that they truly NEEDED but were unable to attain was scope." Without argueing about what we "needed", my first question is this.

If we could not purchase, during the industry's good times, the scope that we needed, with $700 million dollars of "costs to Delta" that could have been avoided , how will we buy that today with the alleged $8 million per year that the Company would like us to give up?

2. The second question is this: Whom should we "buy" this job security from?

Since the Company known as Comair does not itself "own" any flying that it can sell to anyone, how can Comair pilots buy "growth" and job security from Comair. If we agree tomorrow to give Comair whatever concessions they may want, is Comair in a position to offer us anything in return? The answer is NO.

The truth is that the day after we make such an agreement with Comair, Delta could decide to give all the future growth, whatever that might be, to Chautauqua or Skywest, just as it can today. Unless Delta itself decides to negotiate directly with us, the fact is that Comair pilots have no one with whom to bargain. Unless Delta decides to sign this new contract itself, it would have zero effect on what happens or does not happen to the future of Comairs' pilots.

Your "quote to Randy" sounds neat, but it includes several inaccurate presumptions. First, Comair leadership has NOT refused dialogue with our management. The door is open and always has been. "Randy" already knows that we will talk and "Randy" already knows what we might need. The fact is that "Randy" is not in a position to give "iron clad guarantees" about anything. He knows that too, and so do we. Obviously, you don't understand (or choose not to).

3. Third question. Do YOU understand why we do not bargain directly with our real employer?

Apparently you don't understand that, so maybe I can help. Delta itself is the controlling party. Only Delta can decide if Comair grows, remains stagnant or shrinks. The keys to the kingdom belong exclusively to Delta Air Lines and NOT to a paper entity known as Comair. Delta can bargain with Comair pilots if it wants to. Delta can put its signature on the "iron clad guarantees" that you think we should ask for. Delta knows that's what we want and that's what we need. Delta, and Delta alone, is the only entity that can make any enforceable agreement with the Comair pilot group. Unless Delta signs the "guarantees", they don't really exist. Delta has NOT refused to talk to Comair pilots.

So why don't we get on with it? Simple; the bargaining agent of Comairs' pilots is not the Comair MEC nor the Comair Negotiating Committe. The bargaining agent is the Air Line Pilots Association, ALPA.

During our past negotiations and prior to our strike, Comair leadership requested that Delta bargain directly with Comairs' pilots. Delta responded, cleverly, by saying that it would bargain with whomever ALPA chose to designate, in writing. ALPA responded also, in writing, and refused to permit Comair pilots to bargain directly with Delta. ALPA has not changed that position.

Reality is, the union that allegedly represents the interests of Comairs' pilots refuses to allow Comairs' pilots to bargain directly with the only party that has the power to make a meaningful agreement, i.e., Delta Air Lines.

Under those circumstances Comairs' pilots are able to "give away" whatever they want to, but they are unable to get anything in exchange from the only party that has any power to make a binding deal.

So you see my friend, Comair pilots are not unreceptive to change. We aren't "yelling no concessions" and Comair pilots are not "shouting NO at the top of their lungs". You just don't have the "big picture". If and when Comairs' pilots have someone to bargain with, it is very possible that an agreement could be achieved. Until we have that option, there is no entity available that can do any of the things you suggest we should consider.

If there is a "problem" in your perceptions, the problem is that Comair pilots are not as naive as you think we are. We may be based in Kentucky, but we did not fall off of a turnip truck.

What do YOU think we should do next? If you have any answers to the real problems, please offer them. We are always open to substantive suggestions.

PS. As an aside, about a year ago Delta made a "deal" to protect the pensions of certain of its executives. That little item reportedly cost the Company $65 millions. That alone is the equivalent of the assumed value of 8 consecutive years + one million of the "concessions" that Comair pilots are being asked to provide to make Comair "competitive". These little things just fascinate me.

PPS. I can't match the General's sound reasoning but that is to be expected. Afterall, he's a Delta pilot. (Don't shoot GL, it's only in fun).

 

[Treme]

Certainly meant no offense Surplus -- and wouldnt even presume to suggest that I have the same understanding of the situation that you do. This is not an RJDC thread! At least I hope that it won't become one.

If I own ABC airlines and I choose to contract out flying to a small-jet provider I am going to look at all of the quality small-jet providers and hire the one who can do the job for the least $$$. Regional jets are no longer a product that is unique to a few airlines. EVERYONE has them and the customer can not tell the difference between Comair and Chautauqua and ACA and Mesa.

There are 300 pilots on the Comair property that are NOT protected by the "no-furlough" clause in the PWA. 300 potential prisoners-of-war!

What I do NOT see is any action being taken to protect them!

I do NOT see ongoing negotiations with management to solve each others problems.

Maybe you're right and what i'm asking for can not be achieved in negotiations with Comair management. That does not change the fact that the company needs a competitive cost structure, and that the pilots need -- at least the junior pilots need -- a little job security (instead of threatening letters from Don O).

Meanwhile the pilot group needlessly squabbles amongst themselves...threatens to recall the MEC chairman (which would result in the resignation in a dozen-odd committee members and the loss of a significant amount of institutional knowledge and experience).

Ok. I can buy that. When the leadership manages to get their head on straight I would like to hear their proposal regarding how to solve the problems -- both the company problems and the pilot problems. The company made their proposal and the union (rightfully) found it unacceptable. Just because they may not be able to compete in the latest bid-for-flying is no reason to hamstring the company with a cost structure that is not competitive with other regional jet providers.

Again -- i'm not saying that we have to lower the bar. Management has stated that any concessions that we take would still leave us as the highest compensated pilots of our equipment in the nation. I'm saying that 8 million isn't a whole lot of cash. We could easily come up with "fluff" in the PWA that could save that -- hopefully in exchange for a little bit of job security for those of us on the bottom.

I see your point that Delta pulls the strings. Can Randy not call over to Delta and make a deal? HIS career is on the line as well. HIS airline. They've got to work with the pilot group to achieve the mutual goals...am I wrong?

Ultimately, I dont have a vote and the more senior Comair pilots are probably glad that I dont. I was hired just a few short months ago and the only thing I have to lose is this job.

All I'm saying is that the strike was over 2 years ago. The industry had changed (and continues to change by the day) since then. The Comair pilots need to change with it. Think i'm being emotional? Darned right I am. It's my career too.

Respectfully,
Treme

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,

Thanks for finally agreeing with me that I have "sound reasoning."
Atleast somebody now sees that.

Treme,

I can see that you are nervous, and you can also see that Delta could not care less about furloughing pilots and affecting their lives. We have 1060 pilots out there that really can't get a good job without dropping their Delta seniority number---something that they are proud of and something that will one day bring them good fortunes again. Can you now see why a lot of our pilots were disturbed that Comair would not drop it's seniority resignation policy? Job security is nice--and help during the bad times can create lasting memories. I wish you luck, and think that this will be resolved eventually in your favor.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[surplus1]

Part 1 of 2

originally posted by Treme Certainly meant no offense Surplus -- and wouldnt even presume to suggest that I have the same understanding of the situation that you do. This is not an RJDC thread! At least I hope that it won't become one.

Treme,

To save space I won't quote any more of your post but I will try to reply to your points in the order that you wrote them. Please be patient, it will take a lot of words.

No offense was taken. If you disagree with my perspective on the issues that is certainly not a reason for me to be offended. I seem to have a different understanding of the situation but that does not mean that I presume my ideas to be better than yours. What I think is that you may not have enough exposure to the process, the information or the industry on which to base your judgement. I hope that by exchanging views we can learn from each other.

I agree that this discussion is not about the RJDC and I'm not trying to make it so. However, that doesn't change what I said about the effect of ALPA's decision to prevent Comair pilots from bargaining directly with their real employer. That decision does impair our ability to bargain successfully and that would be so even if the RJDC did not exist. ALPA's policy decision is based on an agenda that ignores the interests of regional pilots it favor of those of others. That predates the RJDC. Unless ALPA changes that policy, which I do not believe it will do voluntarily, we of Comair and others like us are faced with the reality of having our future determined by external pilot groups. That is wrong, regardless of what you think about the RJDC.

It is true that there are pressures to reduce the cost of Delta's overall operations and the need for concessions by those contributing directly to the losses is very real. Comair is not among them. As you point out, the customer cannot tell the difference between CMR, ASA, CHQ, ACA or SKYW since all fly using the Delta livery and marketing brand name. The customer also cannot tell the difference between CMR and DAL. The recent contracts signed by SKYW, ACA, ARW, CHQ, et al, have indeed created negative pressure on the CMR contract and have adversely affected the bargaining at ASA (not to mention COEX and Mesaba). Likewise, there are far greater pressures on the Delta PWA, created by actions at AA, UAL, NWA, U, and the already low scales at CAL. Additional pressure on the Delta PWA comes from JBlue, AirTran and to a lesser degree SWA. Delta management has responded to the LCC(s) with Song, but Song remains impaired by the cost differential of the Delta PWA. That is not a problem for CMR and ASA pilots to solve and we should not be drawn into it. It is a problem for the Delta pilots to solve, and it is up to them to decide how they want to deal with it. As long as they do not use CMR and ASA pilots as one of their bargaining chips, how they do it is none of our business. However, attempts to make us pay any part of what they caused are out of line. I have no doubt they will object to my saying that but they'll have to live with it; that's how I see it.

Compared to the differential between DAL and AA, UAL, and U, the spread between CMR and other regionals is relatively small. Notice that in the case of the regional carriers I did not mention Mesa. That is because their contract has always been so far below every other regional that it can be ignored, unless of course other regional carriers do not choose to make Mesa the standard they seek to match. I also did not mention carriers like CAL and AWA for the same reason. Why do we need to emulate the aberrations?

The question is whether or not the difference between CMR and other regionals justifies concessions or not. Perhaps it does, but so far the company has presented no evidence to substantiate its inability to compete, and the bottom line of Comair (as released by Delta itself) reflects a greater net profit in the 3rd quarter (in real dollars) than the profit of the new "legend on the block", Jet Blue. On the basis of our "ability to compete" it is my opinion that Delta's request for concessions from Comair's' pilots and Flight Attendants, is at best somewhat premature. At worst it is nothing more than opportunism. I'm all for helping the Company when the Company really needs my help, but I'm not in favor of playing games with our compensation package merely because some Delta manager or the Delta pilot group have "good feelings" about the idea. Let me remind you again that eight years of the proposed CMR concessions do not even provide enough money to fund the special pension benefits that Delta has approved for a handful of its top executives. That alone reveals the unrealistic nature of the request. I have to ask, what makes you support that kind of thinking?

There is another difference between CMR and the other regionals. First, Comair is a subsidiary of Delta, not a subcontractor. Comair doesn't really operate on the basis of "fee for departure", and there is no "margin" no matter how small that goes to Comair and not to Delta. All of CMR's profit belongs to Delta. Delta may well choose to juggle its books (a little reflection on the Arthur Anderson debacle may give you a clue) and orchestrate the profit/loss scenario, but that is artificial. Comparisons of the relative cost/benefit of the CMR operation to the parent company are difficult to nail down. Delta can easily change what Comair does and make it unprofitable and noncompetitive, whenever it chooses to do so. Our true competitive position is no less of a shell game than is the corporate structure itself.

In that atmosphere, the Company (Delta) needs to substantiate the need for concessions at Comair and we do NOT need to rush pell-mell into the concessionary spiral, simply because they ask us to. Our leadership did not really say NO to the concessions. They simply said that they could not meet the company's created deadline. Given what the company has produced as justification for its request, that was the only logical response. The door remains open.

I don't know if your number of 300 CMR pilots not protected by the no-furlough clause is accurate, but for the purpose of this discussion it doesn't really matter. I do understand the point you're trying to make and appreciate your concern. However, I would caution Comair's' more senior pilots not to hang their job security hats on that clause in the contract. If there is a need to furlough beyond that point it will happen. Just ask the Delta pilots who have a similar provision in their contract.

Consider if you can, that those 300 "furloughs" would necessitate a reduction of the current CMR fleet from 150 to 120 (approximately) airframes. That really has nothing to do with the potential loss of potential "growth". Reality is that Delta can transfer ALL of the aircraft used by CMR to some other carrier. If they decide to do that, no-furlough clauses won't be worth the paper they're written on. I doubt anything remotely close to that will happen but imagining that it might and scrambling to make concessions to prevent it, with no guarantees at all, do not make sense to me. A lack of "growth" may delay your upgrade, but is not likely to result in the loss of your job. Well, when you signed on there was no guarantee of "growth" and there was none when I signed on either, so what's new?

Keep in mind that concessions alone will not guarantee growth. They won't even guarantee that we keep what we have. Comair pilots could give Delta double the concessions asked, and the "growth" could still go to CHQ. We can't buy growth with concessions and certainly not from Comair. Growth is a "Lexus" and Comair is a Ford dealership. If you want to buy growth you must bargain with the Lexus dealer. That is Delta, not Comair.

Perhaps YOU do not see any action to protect your interests or any direct negotiations (with fanfare). However, that does NOT mean that discussions may not be taking place, and it does not mean that your interests are being disregarded. Our leaders and our management talk to each other on a regular basis. You and I may not know exactly when or about what, but the truth is that is how successful negotiations are best conducted. Deals and agreements are seldom made in the limelight. Behind the scenes activity is where the rubber meets the road 90% of the time. In the final analysis, our leaders must represent ALL Comair pilots. It would not be right for them to focus only on the interests of the bottom 300 any more than it would be right to focus on what benefits the top 300. No single pilot and no particular segment of our pilot group is more important than the other. I believe that our MEC Officers and one of our captain reps know this very well and are doing the right thing.

I know that our junior pilots are being told repeatedly, by forces external to the Comair pilot group, that the senior pilots are going to sell you out. Unfortunately some of you are believeing that propaganda. You ought to consider that those external forces have a reason for doing that. You can rest assured that they are not harping on that point because the are concerned about what happens to you. Their motivation is their own interest, not yours. They have and agenda, and that agenda is to divide Comair pilots internally so that they can get what they want, not to protect you or any other junior pilots.


Continue to Part II

 

[surplus1]

TO Treme, Part 2 of 2

You said you were new here. I urge you and all junior pilots to do some research into the history of the Comair group. In the past 14 years and 3 major negotiations, senior pilots at Comair have not feathered their own nests on the backs of junior pilots. On the contrary, senior pilots have made certain that our agreements with this company have benefited our junior members as well. For example, in our 1991-94 negotiations, senior pilots gave up much in dollars to ensure that CMR FO's would earn at least 60% of Captains pay. That is a decided contrast with many of the contracts of other regional groups.

It is not our custom to leave any of our group behind and I don't believe for a moment that it will happen now. We will act together and achieve together and no one will be left behind. I see nothing to indicate that Comair's senior pilots are planning to sacrifice their juniors. I say again, that idea is coming from pilots who do not work for Comair. It is no accident. They want to divide us and they have decided that the easiest way is to create dissention and fear among the junior pilots, thus pitting them against the seniors. The solidarity of our group is the one thing that both our management and our enemies don't quite know how to deal with. We must protect that solidarity for it is our strength. Don't give it up so easily by believing the rhetoric from people that are not our friends. Your brothers and sisters are based in CVG, not in Herndon or Atlanta.

I encourage you to not be upset by threatening letters from Don O. or anyone else. Don O. writes what he is told to write and he is not the first executive to produce threatening letters. We got them from the guy before him and from the guy before that guy. As long as you are here, there will be threatening letters from some executive from time to time. It makes them feel good and the purpose is to create FUDD (fear, uncertainty, doubt, and division), in the hope of weakening our solidarity. Expect more of the letters, they are a way of life for corporate management. I don't care if they "feel good" but I will not allow them to intimidate me.

The Company already has a competitive cost structure, Treme. Of the seven largest regional airlines, Comair's cost per available seat mile is the lowest. That doesn't mean we should rest on our laurels. Cost control is important and we must all do our best to maintain our efficiency and operational performance. We must also remember that the customer pays our salaries. If we treat them well enough and give them a little more than they pay for, they will keep coming back. I know ATL operations don't help but if anyone can overcome that debacle, it is Comair. Don't underestimate this little airline or its people. We have a good strong team. Try to become a part of it. You may decide to move on at some point in the future, but while you are here you need to know that you work for "The Best Little Airline in America" and it is part of your job to keep it that way. It is not just the pilots that make this happen, it is all of us. Comair used to be not just a good team but a great team, and there is no reason to give that up just because we were purchased by Delta, even though that purchase has made it more difficult. Excellence in our overall performance is what will get us growth, not concessions in the pilot contract.

The pilot group really isn't squabbling amongst itself. The hiccup within the MEC is the product of but 3 people. One very junior FO who is being used by external forces and who has managed to dupe another FO, plus one ambitious captain who would promote himself at the expense of the pilot group. These people have demonstrated that they are willing to destroy the solidarity of Comair pilots in furtherance of their personal political agendas. In my book, that makes them unworthy of our respect.

Our true leaders may not be perfect but they are not crooked and they do have their heads on straight. They have been tested under fire and have proven themselves more than once. The upstart ring leader of the attempted coup isn't even smart enough to know that he's being used by outside forces that will chew him up and spit him out, just as soon as he has done their dirty deed. He and his cohorts are a Trojan Horse in our midst. We need to stop him and take steps to ensure that he and anyone like him, never has the opportunity to turn against his own again. He is either an absolute fool or a Benedict Arnold. Neither one is in the interest of this pilot group.

I agree that eight million is not a lot of cash. As a matter of fact it is so little cash that it makes it ridiculously obvious that there is in fact no real need for concessions at this time. Our current compensation most certainly does not hamstring this company nor make it less than competitive. That just isn't true. One man's fluff (as you call it) is another man's truffles. The point you really need to focus on is the reality that we cannot purchase job security for anyone, top or bottom, with concessions. The only way that job security can be achieved is through the signature of Delta Air Lines on the bottom of a CMR PWA that includes the clearly defined scope of our operations.

If and when Delta decides to give us what we need then we may be able to give them what they need. Right now they are talking not about needs, but about wants. We cannot give them what they want while they are unwilling to consider what we need. In negotiations, there is a vast difference between wants and needs. If you do not as yet know that you can be certain you will learn it, if you stay in this business.

I disagree with you. This is NOT "Randy's" airline. It is our airline, every last one of us from the lowest "rampie" to the highest executive. Randy is one of us but it is not HIS airline by a long shot. I am interested in Randy's career and would not like to see him lose it, but I expect and demand from him an equal interest in our careers. We do have to work together but everything has its limits. Yes, Randy can "call over" to Delta and ask for whatever he would like. That doesn't mean he will get it. What Randy can't do is sign his name to a document that provides job security for Comair employees. Only Delta can do that. If they do, I'm reasonably sure we will meet them half way.

Perhaps you have not been here long enough to put your X on an official ballot, but I have to let you know that this senior pilot does NOT think that means you have no voice. You are one of us and it doesn't matter when you were hired. You are hired, you are a Comair pilot and if you should lose your job, I will lose a brother. I believe that the majority of Comair's senior pilots think the same way that I do. They may not say it in those words but they are not strangers to me nor is their thought process. I sincerely believe that we will not abandon our young. Sometimes in battle there are casualties in spit eof our best effort and we must all realize that. However, we do not desert our brothers and leave them alone to take a fall for the rest of us.

The strike is over, Treme. It should never have happened. We did not seek it and we did not want it. It was forced upon us. Perhaps we didn't get the dream contract that others thought we should have, but others were not fighting our battles or paying the price of their wishes. Perhaps we did not satisfy the onlookers, but I'll tell you one thing, there's not a man in this business who doesn't know who we are. Victory is measured in more ways than one. We stood up, we were counted, and they all learned what we're made of. That's good enough for me.

Yes, the industry has changed and at this point in time it has changed in our favor. It will change again and when it does, Comair pilots will adapt to the changes in the appropriate way. We are not the dinosaurs of the hour and there is as yet no demonstrable reason why we should make ourselves the fodder of anyone.

Yes, you are emotional. If by now you haven't noticed that I am just as emotional, then I give up. What's more I am not afraid to air my emotions in public. I know who and what I am. I'm proud of my fellow pilots and I'm not the least bit ashamed to tell anyone. I wear my heart on my sleeve and I don't care who knows it. I make no apologies for that. There is a great deal at stake for all of us. It is your career and I understand that fully. You must understand that it is also my career. I am not alone and you are not alone. We are in this together as brothers. I will stand with you when you need me to; you can count on that. All I ask is that you do the same. "E Pluribus Unum."

With equal respect,
Surplus1

 

[Treme]

Suplus,

First of all thank you for your very detailed response. I can tell that you are a leader and I believe that your vision of how the pilot group should treat one another is visionary. I'd be proud to yank the gear for you any day. However...

If what you were writing was the same as what I have been hearing I would have no fear.

But it isnt.

I've read some comments on the ALPA boards such as, "It was a long hard battle to the top of this hill(and we're not done yet)and I'll be darned if I'll let some FNG drive us off the cliff. "

and here's another "There's a reason that in battle we try not to let the new guy plan the assault-Because, "You Don't Know What You Don't Know"

But worst of all, I overheard a conversation in the crew facility in which a pilot actually (loudly) said, "F___ the new guys!" in the middle of a heated discussion about concessions.

How many junior pilots heard that man, and what would the impact be on that junior pilot's allegiance to his "brothers"?

According to membership services there are now 572 pilots at Comair that have been hired since the strike. That is pretty close to 1/3rd of the seniority list. Regardless of whether it isn't worth the paper it's written on these pilots are not protected by the furlough protection clause in the PWA. That sets them apart from their peers in that there isn't even the perception that they have the same protections as their more senior counterparts.

The attitudes above seem to be of the opinion that these "new" pilots dont have a right to be concerned or, probably more accurately, dont have the experience to be concerned.

Comair's recent hiring practices would seem to indicate otherwise. They have hired dozens if not hundreds of pilots who are furloughed from other airlines (including TWA, United, USAir, Eagle, Midway, Mesaba... you name it).

These are hardly industry "newbies" and i'm pretty sure that most of them deserve more than to be coined "FNGs" or told that "they dont know what they dont know". While they may not have been with you on the picket line every single ONE of them appreciates the sacrifice you made to improve the profession. Many sent money above and beyond what was required by ALPA... I know I did. Many have done ALPA work at their previous employers. Some were military service men and women who were overseas defending the country while you were on strike. Some were attempting to salvage an airline called "Midway".

These "FNGs" have gone through bankruptcies, furloughs, downgrades, shutdowns, and -- some of them -- battlefields. Their concerns deserve more than arrogant dismissal.

If the pilots typing or yelling remarks like those above want to divide the pilot group they're well on the way to doing it. Telling a third of the group that they're not "real" Comair pilots because they didnt walk the picket line with you is NOT the way to encourage solidarity. Nor is ignoring or dismissing their concerns.

Just my opinion Captain -- assertive, but with respect.

 

[P38JLightning]

won't worry about it...

Treme,

I've also heard some idiots spout off the things you are refering to. I brought it up to a 6-7 year Captain who told me to basicaly relax, because "it ain't THEIR airline anymore." It belongs to all of us, and while those selfish morons who have been saying things like that do get a vote, it is canceled out by "some FNG" with one year seniority.

So make sure your voice is heard, because the selfish among us darned sure make sure theirs is. Call your status reps weekly, and VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!

The last round of elections had only about 40 or 50 people (actually less I think) vote in each reresenative category. Empower yourself and your peers to make your voices heard. The last Captain rep election was won by 2 or 3 votes. If you get 5 or 10 new FO's involved, and each one of them gets 2 or3, you would multiply the voice of people in your situation by 100.

So relax, this isn't THEIR company any more, its OUR company. And we're not going to let some FSG drive us off a cliff either.

 

[FLB717]

One of the best post Ive ever seen. Gen and Surpls1 I think you guys are right on. Treme, always remember what ever airline you are at the 5%ers are always present, and while they are loud in crew rooms and website's thier position is always the weak one with no real power, but to anoy. Trust your Reps. I know one like a brother and he and the rest, if they do not releave JC they will put the fear of God in the old Preacher. And you and all ,others win either way.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Agreed.

I understand that the deadline for the RFP is now December 15th.

Hopefully the Comair MEC is carefully reviewing the financial information to determine if there is a need to open the PWA.

I am only a few hundred numbers from the bottom and I too am concerned about the long term viability of Comair.

I hate the thought that I perhaps made yet another career altering mistake.

Is furlough number 5 in my future?

For what it is worth I believe Treme's heart is in the right place. Even exploring the IDEA of job security for the junior pilots is a noble cause.

But then again, I have a soft spot in my heart for junior pilots.

-FurloughedAgain(?)

 

[RichO]

I just have one request, can you keep the posts shorter for us slow readers.....they are becoming way too long.......General, I like the length of your posts....straight to the point........I get lost in the others.................

 

[jetflyer]

They do get entirely way too long. PART 1 and 2!?? Losing us with the ADD.
Jet

 

[badog]

TREME

Dude U R A Management PUKE aren't U ! General is right (4 1nce) and I think he's finally getting it!!! Bull $hitt on the pilot group taking concessions from management that is just treating the symptoms. the REAL $$ is going to the rich A$$ bastards in management let them take the cut. Oh but that's right pilots can't agree on $hit other than they're genetically related to Chuck Yeager or John Holmes. It makes me sick to hear this save your job with a pay cut crap, time to spread the misery around a bit. go to the bean counters and find out how much the top dogs make and tell me what u all think

B.D.