Comair 1113

[NOLEFAN]

Comair announced today that it plans to file a section 1113 motion this week asking the bankruptcy court to give us the right to implement changes to the pilot agreement if we cannot secure a mutually acceptable agreement in the timeframe the motion sets forth.
"Several factors drove our decision to pursue this path," President Don Bornhorst said in a memo to employees. "Over the past year, we have worked very hard toward a consensual agreement, and that is still our preference because that is what is in everyone's best interest. However, discussions with the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) that have been ongoing since July give us no indication that a consensual agreement will indeed be reached -- our differences are simply too great economically and philosophically."

 

[goahead]

Stand strong Comair bro's

 

[WSurf]

yea.... I got into a pissing contest with a comair captain about 2 years ago in HTS! I told him that the same sh$t that happened at US Airways Express was gonna happen to them! He was wearing a leather jacket and Ray Ban's, and his cocky attitude was like ' no way man'!!! yes way!!! sorry but I hope for the best........ I just keep picturing the noob!!!!

 

[CJA]

More crap being thrown on the "regional" airline pilots. This is just complete BS and I am getting tired of it. The only way this is going to stop is for all pilots to realize they are next. We are screwing ourselves. Airline management is in a full blown attempt to get rid of unions so they can impose their terms on all of us. It is happening at Comair, Mesaba, ASA, and others. Time to stand up. If you don't, you will get whatever they want to give you while they get rich.
Stand up to them Comair. Sorry you have to go throught this.

 

[WSurf]

More crap being thrown on the "regional" airline pilots. This is just complete BS and I am getting tired of it. The only way this is going to stop is for all pilots to realize they are next. We are screwing ourselves. Airline management is in a full blown attempt to get rid of unions so they can impose their terms on all of us. It is happening at Comair, Mesaba, ASA, and others. Time to stand up. If you don't, you will get whatever they want to give you while they get rich.
Stand up to them Comair. Sorry you have to go throught this.

Well PDT, ALG and others tried to step up! But with every other airlines losing there mind for RJ growth nobody cared! Now its all come back to haut them!
I agree, Mesba folks are getting the big hose! Now that wages are so low that mainline folks are willing to fly at those rates, we are all in trouble!!
I wonder if my wife will hire me at her company!!! Geezzz..

 

[DrewBlows]

yea.... I got into a pissing contest with a comair captain about 2 years ago in HTS! I told him that the same sh$t that happened at US Airways Express was gonna happen to them! He was wearing a leather jacket and Ray Ban's, and his cocky attitude was like ' no way man'!!! yes way!!! sorry but I hope for the best........ I just keep picturing the noob!!!!

Do you want a medal?

 

[No Delay]

Originally Posted by NOLEFAN
"Several factors drove our decision to pursue this path," President Don Bornhorst said in a memo to employees.

Several Factors...the main one being that Mesba just got away with it.

 

[ex j-41]

Pay someone crap and pretty soon that is what you get in return!

 

[N813CA]

WSURF

I came from PDT and I know for a fact that if you talk to 98% of our pilot group they would have never acted the way Mr. Rayban did. How is this coming back to bite us? I don't remember us ever giving to get RJ's. I do believe Comair created the RJ. I still hope you the best. Just read that US Airways wants to get rid of more RJ flying. I don't know if you work for PSA or PDT but at least understand that we are going through the same crap you went through,but worse. At least at PDT there wasn't any other competition for flying DASH-8

 

[jonjuan]

Stand strong Comair bro's

LOL....

 

[gnx99]

You know, we ought to start a union so we can protect our pay. err....

 

[172driver]

gnx99,

I have no doubt that within the next year or two you will see the error of your statement. What goes around comes around, the only difference being that they won't need a judge's approval to a$$ rape your group.

ex j41,

That's exactly what they will get from me starting tomorrow. This is war and I guess they didn't learn the first time around not to declare war on this pilot group.

 

[thebest]

Comair announced today that it plans to file a section 1113 motion this week asking the bankruptcy court to give us the right to implement changes to the pilot agreement if we cannot secure a mutually acceptable agreement in the timeframe the motion sets forth.
"Several factors drove our decision to pursue this path," President Don Bornhorst said in a memo to employees. "Over the past year, we have worked very hard toward a consensual agreement, and that is still our preference because that is what is in everyone's best interest. However, discussions with the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) that have been ongoing since July give us no indication that a consensual agreement will indeed be reached -- our differences are simply too great economically and philosophically."

don't worry, everything will be ok....they have alpa! maybe another picket will solve everything.....

 

[WSurf]

WSURF

I came from PDT and I know for a fact that if you talk to 98% of our pilot group they would have never acted the way Mr. Rayban did. How is this coming back to bite us? I don't remember us ever giving to get RJ's. I do believe Comair created the RJ. I still hope you the best. Just read that US Airways wants to get rid of more RJ flying. I don't know if you work for PSA or PDT but at least understand that we are going through the same crap you went through,but worse. At least at PDT there wasn't any other competition for flying DASH-8

Believe me bro! I am in your corner!! I guess Captain Cocky just pissed me off a bit!
We went thru a rough ride also! Basically being told that all Props will be gone by 2007..... PDT & ALG Merger.... PSA gets all the jets... So we were basically hung out to dry...
I just knew when MESA hit the DELTA ramp there was gonna be trouble for Comair and ASA, just like at US Airways!
Good Luck

 

[atrdriver]

I don't remember us ever giving to get RJ's.

You don't? Everyone else remembers when Fred sold you on a pay freeze for more RJs. Maybe you don't see a freeze as the same as "giving", but just about everyone else did. All the same, I think what they are doing to you guys is criminal, and I sincerely hope that you guys can find a way to win.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

They have to secure paycuts now, since there is a pilot pool out there of only a handful of qualified applicants. The supply curve is shifting in our favor.

 

[DrewBlows]

You know, we ought to start a union so we can protect our pay. err....

don't worry, everything will be ok....they have alpa! maybe another picket will solve everything.....

You guys love to blame everything bad that happens to airline pilots on ALPA. The fact is (and yes this is a fact) that if Comair were not ALPA we would not have enjoyed the pay, benefits, and work rules that we currently have, and we still would have taken a pay cut when Comair filed for bankruptcy. Golly gee, those terrible unions, out there fighting for my pay check, they are so awful.

Here's another fact. If you jokers are airline pilots (which is doubful with experience listed as "all" and "---") you are reaping the benefits of ALPA. That is not debatable.

 

[crjdxr]

Good luck guys and gals!

Comair announced today that it plans to file a section 1113 motion this week asking the bankruptcy court to give us the right to implement changes to the pilot agreement if we cannot secure a mutually acceptable agreement in the timeframe the motion sets forth.
"Several factors drove our decision to pursue this path," President Don Bornhorst said in a memo to employees. "Over the past year, we have worked very hard toward a consensual agreement, and that is still our preference because that is what is in everyone's best interest. However, discussions with the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) that have been ongoing since July give us no indication that a consensual agreement will indeed be reached -- our differences are simply too great economically and philosophically."

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I'd guess given the trend that there won't be much "winning" going on for the pilots at Comair. At least in the short term. I think it's interesting that seemingly many of the regional carriers are having problems with staffing. These CEO's are not stupid. I'm sure they realize that although they are making money now, that eventually they will have to raise pay rates, increase benefits and have better work rules to attract qualified pilot applicants and importantly, keep qualified pilots. Easier to provide 15% increases from tomorrow's pay scale than it is from today's scale.

It wouldn't surprise me if pilotyip is correct regarding a "shortage" so to speak in the next year. Certainly given the decrease in pilot training that occured post 9/11.

Mr. I.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

These CEO's are not stupid. I'm sure they realize that although they are making money now, that eventually they will have to raise pay rates, increase benefits and have better work rules to attract qualified pilot applicants and importantly, keep qualified pilots. Easier to provide 15% increases from tomorrow's pay scale than it is from today's scale.

Mr. I.

What needs to be understood is what they consider "Qualified." for management 1500 hours and an ATP and 250 hours is the perfect crew. Low seniority= Low pay and they are certainly more manageable that a crew that has being around for a while. Younger crews typically don't have a good understanding of their contracts therefore it is easier to get them to do stuff (Contract violations mostly go unreported with NEW low seniority pilots) that it is not that ease to do with experienced crews.
People that have being around for a while are considered by us the pilot group as experienced. To management, they are a liability of cost.
Their wish is that everyone that has 4 plus years seniority at a Regional will leave. If you think that they will raise salary to keep experienced crews around, you are dreaming.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Mesaba let the camel's nose under the tent. Now that a court has set precedent to throw out the contract with a no-strike injunction, every airline is going to try it.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Actually they won't raise salaries to keep experienced crews, they'll raise salaries to actually attract crews. There are plenty of people that have considered flying for a career in the last five years that have said "forget it" after considering all the issues involved. I know quite a few myself. I'm sure others here know plenty as well. A company in any industry can only run operations at bare minimums for so long until employees become so fed up they seek other employment or another career.

I'm well aware that longer term pilots are more expensive. No doubt. As flying is a homogenous activity, to a manager concerned with bottom lines, pilots are simply widgets. Pop one in and pop one out. To some extent they are correct. The details to why they are not should be evident to most professional pilots and probably wouldn't be believed by a high level manager.

The downward forces on regional pilot wages and pilot wages in general can only last so long. Laws of supply and demand will eventually shift wages upward whether it is in a year or three to five years. Manangement at regionals have a nice weapon in saying we need to get this flying so you need to work for less money so we can bid successfully for it. However, at a certain point, people just say the hell with it, I'm done with this place. Personal belief, I think the fracs are putting pressure on the regionals to some extent as the $$$ and benefits are ridiculously better from regional FO to frac FO position as is the QOL in most cases.

As some have said on here, management needs to be careful for what they wish for. My thought is that they know wages and bennies are going to have to go up soon so they want to get as much from the pilots now as they can.

Mr. I.

 

[samballs]

don't worry, everything will be ok....they have alpa! maybe another picket will solve everything.....

Dumb A$$ if we didn't have ALPA then they would have forced crap pay on us at once, at least we were able to give it a fight, thats a great fight they have going on at skywest, the name of there war is just take it and like it.

 

[OMG7778]

Or they will just lower the qualifications required to become a crew member.....The more business friendly choice. And they will..... watch, just look at the multicrew ticket that is being approved internationally. You get hired in a big kid jet liner with 10 hours in an actual airplane and only 10 hours of solo time. Everything else done in the sim

 

[Speedtape]

Or they will just lower the qualifications required to become a crew member.....The more business friendly choice. And they will..... watch, just look at the multicrew ticket that is being approved internationally. You get hired in a big kid jet liner with 10 hours in an actual airplane and only 10 hours of solo time. Everything else done in the sim

This is true, unfortunately! There will never be a shortage of low paid pilots! As a result of this program, there will be a shortage of highly paid pilots!