Colganpilotgroup.com June 7 update

[CoolSidePillow]

I have been out of CJC for a few months now. I dont regret working there, and I dont miss it. It served its purpose. It gave me opportunity to get a ton of real world operational flying(2700 hours in 3 years), only 800 SIC, and on to a better paying longer term employment. No matter how painful a lot of you have it now, I have seen it worse there. One code share, 15 Saabs, and less work rules than now. Hot reserve? Yeah right. That is a new thing that came with the long sits with United. While you are there, do what you can to make it as good as you can . . . UNITL YOU LEAVE. If it means a union, then so be it. DO NOT kid yourself if you are looking for long term at CJC. It wont get that good. The company is profitable for the very reasons everyone is trying to change with a union. They put it ALL on the shoulders of the crews. Management, CP office, dispatch, scheduling, MX. They are just liabilities. They just make your life harder. I knew a lot of guys there that stayed longer than they needed. They got comfy. They didnt even try to leave. A union doesnt guarantee you anything. You could offer a proposal for pay, rules, etc . . . CJC can say no. A union is as strong as its members and leadership. Are you ready to strike? Will you strike for a job at a third rate T-prop regional? If you are a Captain with 1000+ PIC and havent made serious effort to get out(and I dont mean filling out aps online), then you are doing yourself injustice. As good as you might think you can get it at CJC, it still doesnt come close to how good it can be out of CJC. In Jan., the family is gone period. CJC has the Q because it will run it cheap, not because it will run it best. Remember that. Majors bleed regionals for cost effectiveness, that is why it is so tough to work for regionals. Some of the better regionals are now suffering for being a better company. XJT lost 69 planes, and they are pumping kool-aid through a firehose, but they have still lost flying. That is not the best sign to have. The Q will take more. Mesaba did have more pilots with same planes and a union as stated before. Look at the hell they went through. Furloughs? Pay cuts? Basic turmoil and then bought by a sh*t company like NWA. Keep your eyes on the prize, and get out ASAP. You can play with the union while you are there, but if you think a union or anything else will make CJC the place to be, well I have some awesome oceanfront property in Montana for you.

 

[BirdCatcher]

I agree with bulldog price on a lot of points. first of all Colgan's business model is based on LOW COST and their margins are not as great as the fee for departure guys at other airlines. COLGAN makes its own money. I take my hat off to them for that.

IF we unionize it is our responsibility to be reasonable and prudent in what we negotiate. I think i speak for most of the colganeers when i say that mostly what we want is fairness and accountability for management and system control for their performance and a legally binding set of work rules that are grievable and mutually agreed upon. As for the pay on the saab and out station bases...we knew what we were getting into before we came to Colgan.

A lot of those things make a world of difference for morale and don't cost the company much money. Happy workers are productive workers.

As for the part about voting with your resignation. that is not realistic in a seniority based industry. there are no lateral moves unless you quit almost right after you start.

While I agree Colgan is a low margin airline I think there are some points you negated to realize
1. Colgan Q400 deal is the future. the Q400's will be a fee per departure, something that Colgan has not had before. Right now they eaither get EAS money and/or shared revenue with the carrier they serve. Fee per departure is more profitable for Colgan. By the way, to give you an idea about how pay affects the profit margin, Colgan didn't even investigate a payscale for the Q400 until AFTER the deal was announced. The writing is on the wall.
2. How can Colgan not have to give into any union demands BUT they will lose money and not be able to be profitable if we get a union? Guys and gals, the company is now owned by a publicy traded corporation. In order to keep the shareholders happy they will find ways to increase the profit margins. What does that mean to us? Well without a union it means they will exploit us to do what they need to keep shareholders happy. Example, sorry folks outstation basing is gonna be gone. Only on paper does it make more sense $$ wise then hub and spoke. Now by looking at how Colgan has closed stations in the past, who is gonna look out for us when that mess takes place? Anyone, Anyone? If Pinnacle decides Colgan ops are better being merged with Pinnacle, who's gonna look out for us? Anyone, Anyone? The writing is on the wall.
3. This excuse of use Colgan to get your time and get out, who cares about making things better is dead. Colgan is soon going to be a 1,000+ pilot airline with advanced 70 seat technology. The beeches will be gone and after that they will start getting rid of their oldest saabs. It is going to be different place, are we going to change with change? What do you think will happen to us if we don't? I think we'll get stepped on worse then we do now. The writing is on the wall.
4. After you leave Colgan and move on to bigger and better things, companies like Colgan are going to be the companies that are going to try to take your bigger and better job away. One day Colgan will be flying that 100 seat turboprop or old E170's bidding for scoped out mainline flying.

Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything.

 

[BLUE-ICE-MAN]

VOTE ALPA IN!!!

Do it for the guy you sit next to...

Do it for the fact that (if you move on to a major) you will be in a union at your next company....

Do it because you have PRIDE in yourself....

Do it to negotiate a protective LEGAL contract....

Do it for better Pay...
(If the "Colgan-Peenuckle" merger is simply the best?? Then why does Horizon have a BETTER Payscale on the SAME equipment???)

As Nike said... "Just do it"

 

[dingo222]

VOTE ALPA IN!!!


(If the "Colgan-Peenuckle" merger is simply the best?? Then why does Horizon have a BETTER Payscale on the SAME equipment???)

because horizon has kneecappers with teamsters,lol

 

[better up here]

Do it for the fact that (if you move on to a major) you will be in a union at your next company....

cuz when they ask any of you, "were you pro union at CJC?," and they WILL, what are you going to say?

you better be a good liar, or vote yes. and those guys can smell lies like_fill in the blank_.

 

[Thug Life]

cuz when they ask any of you, "were you pro union at CJC?," and they WILL, what are you going to say?

you better be a good liar, or vote yes. and those guys can smell lies like_fill in the blank_.

Yeah it's funny. No one wants a Union at Colgan but you all want to move on to outfits with a Union. Can't figure that out????????????

 

[Prop2Jet]

I paid for training...... I love my job.... the regionals are the most honest and most lucrative place to work.....Colgan treats us so well....I can get paid too much....I love schedulers......The airplanes never have any MELS......I love the air conditioning in our planes so do the passengers.....I love our health insurance....Not to mention our matched 401Ks...... Upgrade is so fast now.....I still have money left over from my uniform allowance....I can't believe I can use my sick time..... My vacation is available for whenever I want to take it...... I love how seniority rules are followed all the time...... "HAL" the scheduling computer is always correct about me never working on the 7th day..... Colgan really does give us the industry average to the "penny."......I love the company credit card it always works at 1 am in the hotel..... The cabs are always on time to take us to the hotel with our reservations awaiting our arrival......I can't believe how they will just pay us our REPO credit if we are over block......Isn't it great to get to fly for free on holidays if you are under block.... Isn't it nice to get pay credit for holiday pay if you are over block......I am always so grateful when crew scheduling calls me to let me know that I don't have to come to the airport cause the flight is late, canceled or broke...... I love doing them favors they always remember how I saved them again......I love having to get a doctor's note for an illness.... I am just so happy with this company.... Gee.........

 

[Grey Ghost]

I paid for training...... I love doing them favors they always remember how I saved them again......I love having to get a doctor's note for an illness.... I am just so happy with this company.... Gee.........

I thought that according to some of mikey's boys on here, you are never asked to provide a doctor's note!!!! those lifers deserve what they get!

 

[suupah]

"Simply the best" that is why you are not worth a penny more than industry average. Shouldn't the motto be "simply average"

 

[BirdCatcher]

"Simply the best" that is why you are not worth a penny more than industry average. Shouldn't the motto be "simply average"

We're not even simply average. we're average when compared to any airline that has a 70 seat turboprop payscale. If you look at companies that ACTUALLY operate a 70 seat turboprop the pay "simply sucks"

 

[Fred Rogers]

I agree with bulldog price on a lot of points. first of all Colgan's business model is based on LOW COST and their margins are not as great as the fee for departure guys at other airlines. COLGAN makes its own money. I take my hat off to them for that.

IF we unionize it is our responsibility to be reasonable and prudent in what we negotiate. I think i speak for most of the colganeers when i say that mostly what we want is fairness and accountability for management and system control for their performance and a legally binding set of work rules that are grievable and mutually agreed upon. As for the pay on the saab and out station bases...we knew what we were getting into before we came to Colgan.

A lot of those things make a world of difference for morale and don't cost the company much money. Happy workers are productive workers.

As for the part about voting with your resignation. that is not realistic in a seniority based industry. there are no lateral moves unless you quit almost right after you start.

I Like it!

Did you see a few posts up? There was almost an intelligent conversation going on flightinfo. That is something worth taking note of. ;-)

 

[rhino3040]

"Simply The Best right down to the stinking penny!"

 

[DX Rick]

cuz when they ask any of you, "were you pro union at CJC?," and they WILL, what are you going to say?

you better be a good liar, or vote yes. and those guys can smell lies like_fill in the blank_.

Oh, I love this threat. "You better vote ALPA. If not, your career is dead!"

Son, the last regional I worked for had an ALPA push. These boneheads used the same excuse. Funny though, 2 guys who had been threatening future jobs of others, didn't get hired by ALAP carriers when they tried to move on. But hey, since they were pro-ALPA, their futures were secured. I guess not.

So take your idle threats, your ball and go home.

Itnot going to happen. Then what? What happens if we don't get ALPA? Is there a back up plan?'s

Ya'll sit around and say
"Dude, it would have been so sweet to have ALPA on the property. They would have gotten us like $100 per flight hour, and we would have been flying super sonic jets. Man, all the babes go after super sonic jet pilots. Like, they fight for stuff man, and they keep our jobs for us, so the evil Colgan boys can't fire us. Dude, like It would have been so cool to have an ALPA pin on my jacket. Wait, never mind dude. ALPA would have fought to do away with the uniform and the hats, thats how cool they are. Dude, do I have to like, turn in this ALPA lanyard? I wanna keep it so I can show my ALPA brothern when I jump seat."



Oh, nice picture in the latest ALPA magazine today.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Hey DX you sound like Jeb with your overly condescending tone of "son" and "ya'll" or even worse you sound like a Georgia boy. You are a disgrace to the Illini Chief.....

 

[Grey Ghost]

Hey DX you sound like Jeb with your overly condescending tone of "son" and "ya'll" or even worse you sound like a Georgia boy. You are a disgrace to the Illini Chief.....

Or maybe it could be CHO Travis! :bomb:

 

[Regul8r]

You can take it to the bank

Colgan will vote ALPA on property...Colgan will get the Q400. And Colgan pilots will still be miserable because Colgan will STILL suck. Colgan will be no different than any other airline when it comes to to the pilots "working" with ALPA.

Deal with it.

 

[DX Rick]

Colgan will vote ALPA on property...Colgan will get the Q400. And Colgan pilots will still be miserable because Colgan will STILL suck. Colgan will be no different than any other airline when it comes to to the pilots "working" with ALPA.

Deal with it.

Wrong! It will be different because they will be paying 2% of their lousy pay check to the Union who "fought" for their pay raises...they won't get.

It's ok Colgan guys. When you hear "We had our backs to the wall" or "It was a different situation for us" or We're taking it back" the smoke will clear and you will see your Union does nothing for you.

 

[BirdCatcher]

Wrong! It will be different because they will be paying 2% of their lousy pay check to the Union who "fought" for their pay raises...they won't get.

It's ok Colgan guys. When you hear "We had our backs to the wall" or "It was a different situation for us" or We're taking it back" the smoke will clear and you will see your Union does nothing for you.

Well not having a union certainly has done nothing for us, it's time to try something else. Have you ever been at Colgan?

 

[DX Rick]

Well not having a union certainly has done nothing for us, it's time to try something else. Have you ever been at Colgan?

No, but I know several people who are there and they hate it. Colgan by no means a "lifer" regional, and thats how they will continue to be with or without ALPA. All ALPA will do is come in, take 2% of each pay check, hand out neat little stickers, mouse pads, lanyard and pins and they say "Well, we're off to go fight for better rates!" and then you never hear from them. 6 months later, they come back and give you an update, and then disapear for another 6 months.
When things don't go as planned, they get everyone hyped up for the big strike, and then it takes another 6 months for that to go through. You gotta vote, let the cooling off period go through and yada yada yada.

You gotta realize, that the Colgans have to agree to the contract as well. They won't agree to pay raises, especially after you brought a Union onto their property. What they might "give" in some areas, they will take away in others. Not that there is much to take away.

Ok, lets say by chance you do get $.25 more an hour out of the Colgans. Great, you gotta give that to ALPA now. Fight for safer flight times? Right, they will have you flying what the FAA deems "safe".

By this time, you and all your friends have moved on to bigger and better places.
Don't give me the cry of "We're doing this for the next guy!" because all pilots today are in it for themselves and themselves only.

Colgan is what it is. Get in, get your time, and get out. Don't waste your time entertaining the thought of ALPA, you're just giving your paycheck away for nothing....while your MEC members are golfing. Hell, I havent seen one Union guy flying in the last 9 months.

 

[BirdCatcher]

No, but I know several people who are there and they hate it. Colgan by no means a "lifer" regional, and thats how they will continue to be with or without ALPA. All ALPA will do is come in, take 2% of each pay check, hand out neat little stickers, mouse pads, lanyard and pins and they say "Well, we're off to go fight for better rates!" and then you never hear from them. 6 months later, they come back and give you an update, and then disapear for another 6 months.
When things don't go as planned, they get everyone hyped up for the big strike, and then it takes another 6 months for that to go through. You gotta vote, let the cooling off period go through and yada yada yada.

You gotta realize, that the Colgans have to agree to the contract as well. They won't agree to pay raises, especially after you brought a Union onto their property. What they might "give" in some areas, they will take away in others. Not that there is much to take away.

Ok, lets say by chance you do get $.25 more an hour out of the Colgans. Great, you gotta give that to ALPA now. Fight for safer flight times? Right, they will have you flying what the FAA deems "safe".

By this time, you and all your friends have moved on to bigger and better places.
Don't give me the cry of "We're doing this for the next guy!" because all pilots today are in it for themselves and themselves only.

Colgan is what it is. Get in, get your time, and get out. Don't waste your time entertaining the thought of ALPA, you're just giving your paycheck away for nothing....while your MEC members are golfing. Hell, I havent seen one Union guy flying in the last 9 months.

Give your paycheck away for nothing? So in the history of ALPA they have done nothing positive? They've made NO advances for pilots, and just give you a magazine and a laynard right?

ALPA is by no means perfect, but to say they have done NOTHING for the profession tells me either you are not educated enough to comment on the issue or you are just speaking with your emotions or just flaming away.

Where do you think this profession would be without unions?

 

[CA1900]

You gotta realize, that the Colgans have to agree to the contract as well. They won't agree to pay raises, especially after you brought a Union onto their property. What they might "give" in some areas, they will take away in others. Not that there is much to take away.

And yet my previous operator, another non-union 1900 operator in the northeast, managed to take away two days off and raise the health insurance rates by 50%, all without ALPA's help -- thinks they could not have done with a contract in place. Imagine that.

Don't give me the cry of "We're doing this for the next guy!" because all pilots today are in it for themselves and themselves only.

Wow, you couldn't be more wrong. I see it first-hand every day at my unionized carrier. The teamwork and volunteerism is just amazing.

Colgan is what it is. Get in, get your time, and get out.

And that attitude is why "it is what it is." It doesn't have to be that way.

A union is what the local members make of it, not the national. The national is a toolbox of resources, which a pilot group can use or misuse as it sees fit.

 

[Regul8r]

And yet my previous operator, another non-union 1900 operator in the northeast, managed to take away two days off and raise the health insurance rates by 50%, all without ALPA's help -- thinks they could not have done with a contract in place. Imagine that.

CA, but what is the net result? You get KY now instead of sand? Along with a nice shiny pin to distract you from the pain? If a Unionized pilot group can't address the issues of Pay, Schedules, and Benefits...and you and I both know they CAN'T...then the airline is broke...walk away from it.

Wow, you couldn't be more wrong. I see it first-hand every day at my unionized carrier. The teamwork and volunteerism is just amazing.

How long have you been with your new unionized carrier?

 

[CA1900]

CA, but what is the net result? You get KY now instead of sand?

No, those erosions in pay and quality of life are the net result of voting not to unionize when they had the chance. At the very least, a contract could have put the brakes on that. Without one, our annual raise moved up all of 20 cents an hour (the first raise in 11 years, and that was 6 years ago), and we were subjects to the whims of scheduling, whose "rules" changed every month for their convenience.

A contract would have codified the scheduling rules, the pay, and the benefits. Without one, the rules changed, the pay stagnated (no COLA whatsoever), and the benefits eroded. All Beech pilots lost 17% of their days off because of understaffing, just as one example. First-year pay is the exact same as it was in 1989, except the medical insurance now actually makes it a couple grand less than back then.

Along with a nice shiny pin to distract you from the pain? If a Unionized pilot group can't address the issues of Pay, Schedules, and Benefits...and you and I both know they CAN'T...

They sure can at my current operator.

We'll never know if they could at the last one, because a large contingent of the pilots voted "no" right before they were recalled to their ALPA-protected jobs. Nice, eh? So we'll never know where the company would be now had another dozen people voted "yes."

How long have you been with your new unionized carrier?

About a year now, though I've been following it for a several years. Both the union and the company used the tools legally available to them, and came out of it with a dramatically improved contract over the previous one in virtually ever aspect. I absolutely would not be enjoying the working conditions I have right now were it not for that contract that this union worked so hard to secure.

 

[Regul8r]

No, those erosions in pay and quality of life are the net result of voting not to unionize when they had the chance. At the very least, a contract could have put the brakes on that. Without one, our annual raise moved up all of 20 cents an hour (the first raise in 11 years, and that was 6 years ago), and we were subjects to the whims of scheduling, whose "rules" changed every month for their convenience.

Maybe the CA pilots should go get some advice from Mesa and learn how to really stick it to the man.

A contract would have codified the scheduling rules, the pay, and the benefits. Without one, the rules changed, the pay stagnated (no COLA whatsoever), and the benefits eroded. All Beech pilots lost 17% of their days off because of understaffing, just as one example. First-year pay is the exact same as it was in 1989, except the medical insurance now actually makes it a couple grand less than back then.

But you still have un-believably substandard pay. What is ALPA going to do about the PAY?

 

[Thug Life]

Maybe the CA pilots should go get some advice from Mesa and learn how to really stick it to the man.

But you still have un-believably substandard pay. What is ALPA going to do about the PAY?

I don't think peolpe there really care about the pay. It's the little things that matter.

 

[Thug Life]

Why have so have so many FO's left for after a short tour at Colgan for other companies. Is there something to be said for a contract? For work rules? Just think about the money Colgan spends on training. You have all these Fo's that are ready to upgrade and they haul a$$ for another company. A company with a set of guide lines put in place. Not a shoot from the hip, we make up the rules as we go to suit OUR needs way of doing things.


Really put's the writing on wall. We give you a 110%. How bout the same.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Dx did you goto UofI?

 

[Thug Life]

No DX needs to keep his castles out of Colgan Pilot sand boxes

 

[DX Rick]

Dx did you goto UofI?

Nope, just showin my support for the Chief.

 

[Thug Life]

I was looking on the Union page. Colgan FA's want Union representation.