Colganpilotgroup.com June 7 update

[Grey Ghost]

Someone needs to give CHO Travis the shocker until he vote yes!

 

[Bulldog Price]

by the way... lets think about this.

WHY

is the company soooo scared of getting ALPA on property?

WHY

do they think that it will be such a horrible thing?

I'll tell you why. Because they have been hosing their pilots for YEARS and they don't want to have to quit.

www.alpa.org/colgan

Wrong
They don't want ALPA because Colgan's overall expenses will increase. By forcing better work rules, profits will decrease and routes will decrease because Colgan can't bid as low as before. After that, Colgan pilot jobs decrease and the company can go under. If you want a union and you think it's so important and helpful, why did you get on with Colgan in the first place? Someone please answere that question. Get a job with a company that treats you better and has a union if that is so important to you now. I think the leverage Colgan workers have is the same leverage as everyone has in America as an employee. You can quit. Quit Colgan and get a job with another employer that values your skill better than Colgan does. Thats your leverage. With a union, you can screw management (by forcing them to treat you what you think your worth). But don't think that comes with no problems in the future. On the other hand, without a union or any representation, the company management can keep screwing you and get the most out of you with the least amount of expense. There is no middle ground. It's not as easy as everyone thinks. What's so funny is that all these pilots get on with Colgan knowing what they are getting into. Later they cry about the job that they chose.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Wrong
They don't want ALPA because Colgan's overall expenses will increase. By forcing better work rules, profits will decrease and routes will decrease because Colgan can't bid as low as before. After that, Colgan pilot jobs decrease and the company can go under. If you want a union and you think it's so important and helpful, why did you get on with Colgan in the first place? Someone please answere that question. Get a job with a company that treats you better and has a union if that is so important to you now. I think the leverage Colgan workers have is the same leverage as everyone has in America as an employee. You can quit. Quit Colgan and get a job with another employer that values your skill better than Colgan does. Thats your leverage. With a union, you can screw management (by forcing them to treat you what you think your worth). But don't think that comes with no problems in the future. On the other hand, without a union or any representation, the company management can keep screwing you and get the most out of you with the least amount of expense. There is no middle ground. It's not as easy as everyone thinks. What's so funny is that all these pilots get on with Colgan knowing what they are getting into. Later they cry about the job that they chose.

Who could possibly underbid Colgan with 20 year old turboprops at their payrates? what are you Mikey's right hand man? Just vote it in, Travis!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

It's not going to happen. Then what? What happens if we don't get ALPA? Is there a back up plan?

 

[BirdCatcher]

Wrong
They don't want ALPA because Colgan's overall expenses will increase. By forcing better work rules, profits will decrease and routes will decrease because Colgan can't bid as low as before. After that, Colgan pilot jobs decrease and the company can go under. If you want a union and you think it's so important and helpful, why did you get on with Colgan in the first place? Someone please answere that question. Get a job with a company that treats you better and has a union if that is so important to you now. I think the leverage Colgan workers have is the same leverage as everyone has in America as an employee. You can quit. Quit Colgan and get a job with another employer that values your skill better than Colgan does. Thats your leverage. With a union, you can screw management (by forcing them to treat you what you think your worth). But don't think that comes with no problems in the future. On the other hand, without a union or any representation, the company management can keep screwing you and get the most out of you with the least amount of expense. There is no middle ground. It's not as easy as everyone thinks. What's so funny is that all these pilots get on with Colgan knowing what they are getting into. Later they cry about the job that they chose.

First, if Colgan is in such financial shape that a union sends them from black to red, then it's probably a company we should all run away from. It's not about screwing management!!!, it's about not letting management screw us!!! There's no middle ground? So union companies are successful and non union aren't? Hmmm Chicago Express went under, were they union? No. Howabout Regions?

You know coming in what your pay will be, but the work rules are the main problem. They change day to day, base to base. Someone tell me what holidays we get paid overtime for? How do you know, where is it written down? What's going to happen when they get rid of outstation basing? They going to even let us know? Did they let those FO's in Allentown know beforehand? After all the crap we've been through for this place, wouldn't been nice for the company to acknowledge our hard work and give us a payscale on the Q400 that is at least average to what other pilots operating the same aircraft are ACTUALLY being payed? Pilots get a 30% increase in pay but the company gets a 40% increase in pilot productivity.

 

[Fred Rogers]

Wrong
They don't want ALPA because Colgan's overall expenses will increase. By forcing better work rules, profits will decrease and routes will decrease because Colgan can't bid as low as before. After that, Colgan pilot jobs decrease and the company can go under. If you want a union and you think it's so important and helpful, why did you get on with Colgan in the first place? Someone please answere that question. Get a job with a company that treats you better and has a union if that is so important to you now. I think the leverage Colgan workers have is the same leverage as everyone has in America as an employee. You can quit. Quit Colgan and get a job with another employer that values your skill better than Colgan does. Thats your leverage. With a union, you can screw management (by forcing them to treat you what you think your worth). But don't think that comes with no problems in the future. On the other hand, without a union or any representation, the company management can keep screwing you and get the most out of you with the least amount of expense. There is no middle ground. It's not as easy as everyone thinks. What's so funny is that all these pilots get on with Colgan knowing what they are getting into. Later they cry about the job that they chose.

Companies do not go under because they have a union, they go under because of bad management practices. Do you HONESTLY think that Colgan Air, with their 52 airplanes and 350 +/- pilots (depending on the day) is going to go under because of a basic set of work rules? How on earth has Mesaba survived with 51 airplanes and 600+ pilots??????????? Think about those numbers. The same number of airplanes (same type for the most part as well). Think about all those extra pilots at Mesaba, all getting paid, every month. Bottom line... Colgan Pilots have been getting it done for less money, and with far fewer people than most. This has been ok with people in the past, because you get in, you get your time, and you get OUT. Now with bigger and better airplanes and lots of growth, it might be a place worth sticking around at for a while. I actually think a union might SAVE Colgan by helping it to be a more attractive place to work, when we hear that "giant sucking sound" in the next few years that everyone is talking about.

 

[Fred Rogers]

It's not about screwing management!!!, it's about not letting management screw us!!!

AMEN!!! Colgan pilots get ABUSED. I am excited about this growth, I support management's decision to sell the company, and I think ALPA will be a necessity.

 

[suupah]

I agree with bulldog price on a lot of points. first of all Colgan's business model is based on LOW COST and their margins are not as great as the fee for departure guys at other airlines. COLGAN makes its own money. I take my hat off to them for that.

IF we unionize it is our responsibility to be reasonable and prudent in what we negotiate. I think i speak for most of the colganeers when i say that mostly what we want is fairness and accountability for management and system control for their performance and a legally binding set of work rules that are grievable and mutually agreed upon. As for the pay on the saab and out station bases...we knew what we were getting into before we came to Colgan.

A lot of those things make a world of difference for morale and don't cost the company much money. Happy workers are productive workers.

As for the part about voting with your resignation. that is not realistic in a seniority based industry. there are no lateral moves unless you quit almost right after you start.

 

[Prop2Jet]

I fly airplanes.....

 

[Thug Life]

Wrong
They don't want ALPA because Colgan's overall expenses will increase. By forcing better work rules, profits will decrease and routes will decrease because Colgan can't bid as low as before. After that, Colgan pilot jobs decrease and the company can go under. If you want a union and you think it's so important and helpful, why did you get on with Colgan in the first place? Someone please answere that question. Get a job with a company that treats you better and has a union if that is so important to you now. I think the leverage Colgan workers have is the same leverage as everyone has in America as an employee. You can quit. Quit Colgan and get a job with another employer that values your skill better than Colgan does. Thats your leverage. With a union, you can screw management (by forcing them to treat you what you think your worth). But don't think that comes with no problems in the future. On the other hand, without a union or any representation, the company management can keep screwing you and get the most out of you with the least amount of expense. There is no middle ground. It's not as easy as everyone thinks. What's so funny is that all these pilots get on with Colgan knowing what they are getting into. Later they cry about the job that they chose.

IDIOT

 

[CoolSidePillow]

I have been out of CJC for a few months now. I dont regret working there, and I dont miss it. It served its purpose. It gave me opportunity to get a ton of real world operational flying(2700 hours in 3 years), only 800 SIC, and on to a better paying longer term employment. No matter how painful a lot of you have it now, I have seen it worse there. One code share, 15 Saabs, and less work rules than now. Hot reserve? Yeah right. That is a new thing that came with the long sits with United. While you are there, do what you can to make it as good as you can . . . UNITL YOU LEAVE. If it means a union, then so be it. DO NOT kid yourself if you are looking for long term at CJC. It wont get that good. The company is profitable for the very reasons everyone is trying to change with a union. They put it ALL on the shoulders of the crews. Management, CP office, dispatch, scheduling, MX. They are just liabilities. They just make your life harder. I knew a lot of guys there that stayed longer than they needed. They got comfy. They didnt even try to leave. A union doesnt guarantee you anything. You could offer a proposal for pay, rules, etc . . . CJC can say no. A union is as strong as its members and leadership. Are you ready to strike? Will you strike for a job at a third rate T-prop regional? If you are a Captain with 1000+ PIC and havent made serious effort to get out(and I dont mean filling out aps online), then you are doing yourself injustice. As good as you might think you can get it at CJC, it still doesnt come close to how good it can be out of CJC. In Jan., the family is gone period. CJC has the Q because it will run it cheap, not because it will run it best. Remember that. Majors bleed regionals for cost effectiveness, that is why it is so tough to work for regionals. Some of the better regionals are now suffering for being a better company. XJT lost 69 planes, and they are pumping kool-aid through a firehose, but they have still lost flying. That is not the best sign to have. The Q will take more. Mesaba did have more pilots with same planes and a union as stated before. Look at the hell they went through. Furloughs? Pay cuts? Basic turmoil and then bought by a sh*t company like NWA. Keep your eyes on the prize, and get out ASAP. You can play with the union while you are there, but if you think a union or anything else will make CJC the place to be, well I have some awesome oceanfront property in Montana for you.

 

[BirdCatcher]

I agree with bulldog price on a lot of points. first of all Colgan's business model is based on LOW COST and their margins are not as great as the fee for departure guys at other airlines. COLGAN makes its own money. I take my hat off to them for that.

IF we unionize it is our responsibility to be reasonable and prudent in what we negotiate. I think i speak for most of the colganeers when i say that mostly what we want is fairness and accountability for management and system control for their performance and a legally binding set of work rules that are grievable and mutually agreed upon. As for the pay on the saab and out station bases...we knew what we were getting into before we came to Colgan.

A lot of those things make a world of difference for morale and don't cost the company much money. Happy workers are productive workers.

As for the part about voting with your resignation. that is not realistic in a seniority based industry. there are no lateral moves unless you quit almost right after you start.

While I agree Colgan is a low margin airline I think there are some points you negated to realize
1. Colgan Q400 deal is the future. the Q400's will be a fee per departure, something that Colgan has not had before. Right now they eaither get EAS money and/or shared revenue with the carrier they serve. Fee per departure is more profitable for Colgan. By the way, to give you an idea about how pay affects the profit margin, Colgan didn't even investigate a payscale for the Q400 until AFTER the deal was announced. The writing is on the wall.
2. How can Colgan not have to give into any union demands BUT they will lose money and not be able to be profitable if we get a union? Guys and gals, the company is now owned by a publicy traded corporation. In order to keep the shareholders happy they will find ways to increase the profit margins. What does that mean to us? Well without a union it means they will exploit us to do what they need to keep shareholders happy. Example, sorry folks outstation basing is gonna be gone. Only on paper does it make more sense $$ wise then hub and spoke. Now by looking at how Colgan has closed stations in the past, who is gonna look out for us when that mess takes place? Anyone, Anyone? If Pinnacle decides Colgan ops are better being merged with Pinnacle, who's gonna look out for us? Anyone, Anyone? The writing is on the wall.
3. This excuse of use Colgan to get your time and get out, who cares about making things better is dead. Colgan is soon going to be a 1,000+ pilot airline with advanced 70 seat technology. The beeches will be gone and after that they will start getting rid of their oldest saabs. It is going to be different place, are we going to change with change? What do you think will happen to us if we don't? I think we'll get stepped on worse then we do now. The writing is on the wall.
4. After you leave Colgan and move on to bigger and better things, companies like Colgan are going to be the companies that are going to try to take your bigger and better job away. One day Colgan will be flying that 100 seat turboprop or old E170's bidding for scoped out mainline flying.

Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything.

 

[BLUE-ICE-MAN]

VOTE ALPA IN!!!

Do it for the guy you sit next to...

Do it for the fact that (if you move on to a major) you will be in a union at your next company....

Do it because you have PRIDE in yourself....

Do it to negotiate a protective LEGAL contract....

Do it for better Pay...
(If the "Colgan-Peenuckle" merger is simply the best?? Then why does Horizon have a BETTER Payscale on the SAME equipment???)

As Nike said... "Just do it"

 

[dingo222]

VOTE ALPA IN!!!


(If the "Colgan-Peenuckle" merger is simply the best?? Then why does Horizon have a BETTER Payscale on the SAME equipment???)

because horizon has kneecappers with teamsters,lol

 

[better up here]

Do it for the fact that (if you move on to a major) you will be in a union at your next company....

cuz when they ask any of you, "were you pro union at CJC?," and they WILL, what are you going to say?

you better be a good liar, or vote yes. and those guys can smell lies like_fill in the blank_.

 

[Thug Life]

cuz when they ask any of you, "were you pro union at CJC?," and they WILL, what are you going to say?

you better be a good liar, or vote yes. and those guys can smell lies like_fill in the blank_.

Yeah it's funny. No one wants a Union at Colgan but you all want to move on to outfits with a Union. Can't figure that out????????????

 

[Prop2Jet]

I paid for training...... I love my job.... the regionals are the most honest and most lucrative place to work.....Colgan treats us so well....I can get paid too much....I love schedulers......The airplanes never have any MELS......I love the air conditioning in our planes so do the passengers.....I love our health insurance....Not to mention our matched 401Ks...... Upgrade is so fast now.....I still have money left over from my uniform allowance....I can't believe I can use my sick time..... My vacation is available for whenever I want to take it...... I love how seniority rules are followed all the time...... "HAL" the scheduling computer is always correct about me never working on the 7th day..... Colgan really does give us the industry average to the "penny."......I love the company credit card it always works at 1 am in the hotel..... The cabs are always on time to take us to the hotel with our reservations awaiting our arrival......I can't believe how they will just pay us our REPO credit if we are over block......Isn't it great to get to fly for free on holidays if you are under block.... Isn't it nice to get pay credit for holiday pay if you are over block......I am always so grateful when crew scheduling calls me to let me know that I don't have to come to the airport cause the flight is late, canceled or broke...... I love doing them favors they always remember how I saved them again......I love having to get a doctor's note for an illness.... I am just so happy with this company.... Gee.........

 

[Grey Ghost]

I paid for training...... I love doing them favors they always remember how I saved them again......I love having to get a doctor's note for an illness.... I am just so happy with this company.... Gee.........

I thought that according to some of mikey's boys on here, you are never asked to provide a doctor's note!!!! those lifers deserve what they get!

 

[suupah]

"Simply the best" that is why you are not worth a penny more than industry average. Shouldn't the motto be "simply average"

 

[BirdCatcher]

"Simply the best" that is why you are not worth a penny more than industry average. Shouldn't the motto be "simply average"

We're not even simply average. we're average when compared to any airline that has a 70 seat turboprop payscale. If you look at companies that ACTUALLY operate a 70 seat turboprop the pay "simply sucks"