WhiteCloud
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Colgan PFT
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TriDriver
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chperplt said:
Chperplt
I just heard that Colgan was going to start PFT, and it's really sad that is happening.
However, I also heard that they had hired some furlouhees from other airlines, and they didn't work out (either were disgruntled working for Colgan, or left after a short while). I heard that experience cost Colgan some $280,000. Colgan apparently is not getting any of the gubmint bailout money some other airlines are getting, so that is the reason they are going PFT.
I hate to see it happen, but I bet it's not the last place that will do it. As I understand it, the trainees can get a type rating, so they are getting something for their money besides just a job. Any F/O that is typed in the plane should hopefully be able to hold their own when they hit the line, and I hope you Colgan captains will not have to do a bunch of instructing or solo flying. I also hope you won't hold it against them for doing PFT. It looks like it's the price you have to pay these days to get the next level of experience to move ahead in the industry.
Like Windsock said earlier in this thread, he's got 2400 TT, 1700 CFI with 37 students, and only 130 ME. He's been doing the "dues paying" thing, and it's not working. Unfortunately, the PFT thing may be what it takes to get the career going. I wish him luck. I bet he'll make a good F/O for Colgan.
Chperplt, can you confirm that Colgan has spent a lot training furloughees that did not work out? Is it true they don't get any of the gov't funds for airlines?
TriDriver Bob
BRA
Rollins Rules!
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I can confirm they have spent some amount of money on people that have left in under a year. Is it 280K? I don't know. In ground school they said they just want to get 2 years out of you, and then feel free to move on, they expect that you will. They make you sign for one year. I guess not too many people pay them back if they leave early. I think many leave here bitter. They pride themselves with sticking the company by not paying the contract. They must hire the low time gulfstream people because they can't just leave early as easy with only 600TT. If all the other regionals were hiring.........this place would be losing people left and right. I would say at least 2/3 of the people here want out badly. Honestly. And with no majors hiring the quick upgrade and PIC time that come with that are not a reason to stay here and deal with it. If they made the condtions better, the pay better, people would stay. The #1 thing they care about here is completion factor. Remember that: completion factor. It may come back to haunt the company some day. They will live or die by completion factor.
English
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I think the training cost problems started when I went through class there. Of the new hires in my class on the Saab, they fired all except one. This was a couple of days before everyone's checkrides, so they had already paid for everything through the sims. They typed me then furloughed me two weeks later, after 9/11. So, I can understand how they went through alot of their training budget with nothing to show for it during just that time alone.
Windsock:
Sorry, I might not despise you personally but what you're doing is despicable. Don't go "buy the dream" for the chance to earn 16k a year and wear polyester. If you really thought after 9/11 it was realistic to go from a part 61 school with no ME flying to a decent regional, you were smoking something. There are other alternatives. Try some 135 freight operator who operates piston twins. Network. Go to a bigger flight school where you can use your MEI. Do NOT shell out 18k for a job and then tell everyone you are a "professional". Pilots who do that s***t are the reason management and and the general public think we are whores, and treat us like it.
BTW, WTF is Colgan charging 18K for the training? I just finished IOE with a carrier that requires a training contract for the ERJ, and it was 10K over 2 years. Is the SAAB that much more expensive to train? PS don't go crowing about the fact you can get a type rating. BFD, where are you going to use it if you leave Colgan? Eagle, Mesaba, maybe Shuttle? I don't think any of those are hiring too much lately.
End of soapbox. Good luck in life, try not to make a decision that will cheapen yourself and the profession.
Sorry, I might not despise you personally but what you're doing is despicable. Don't go "buy the dream" for the chance to earn 16k a year and wear polyester. If you really thought after 9/11 it was realistic to go from a part 61 school with no ME flying to a decent regional, you were smoking something. There are other alternatives. Try some 135 freight operator who operates piston twins. Network. Go to a bigger flight school where you can use your MEI. Do NOT shell out 18k for a job and then tell everyone you are a "professional". Pilots who do that s***t are the reason management and and the general public think we are whores, and treat us like it.
BTW, WTF is Colgan charging 18K for the training? I just finished IOE with a carrier that requires a training contract for the ERJ, and it was 10K over 2 years. Is the SAAB that much more expensive to train? PS don't go crowing about the fact you can get a type rating. BFD, where are you going to use it if you leave Colgan? Eagle, Mesaba, maybe Shuttle? I don't think any of those are hiring too much lately.
End of soapbox. Good luck in life, try not to make a decision that will cheapen yourself and the profession.
chperplt
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TriDriver
Yes, they have spent an enormous amount of money on training folks that have left very soon after getting on line. 4 or 5 of them were Mainline furloughs that were not happy flying a 1900 around. I've spoken to a few of them while they were here and that is what they said. We hired 4 CC Air pilots that were recalled only a few months after getting hired.
They did get money from the initial bailout, although it wasn't very much. I don't think it completely covered the lost revenue from the forced grounding.
As I've said before, I do not like the idea of PFT. I feel the same way many of the other posters do. But, I can also understand from the companies point of view why they would do so. If it's purely a dollar and sense thing, maybe a better way would be to take the money and put it in a zero yield account which would be returned to the pilot once they complete the 12 month training agreement. Rather than having to go after the people who bail, the company could simply refund the prorated portion of the contract if/when they bail early.
Those that PFT will do so regardless of what other people think.. and they should. You need to do what is right for you. Just make sure you are aware of what you are getting yourself into, and make sure you are the best. You're going to need to be better than the rest and hold your own in that seat. As a Captain, I'll be more than happy to help you out with line specific items, and I'll give you all the help I can while you're learning the airplane, but I won't teach you how to fly. If you can't get yourself into a hold, or fly an approach to minimums, you're going to have a problem. Like I said, you're going to have to be the best.
Yes, they have spent an enormous amount of money on training folks that have left very soon after getting on line. 4 or 5 of them were Mainline furloughs that were not happy flying a 1900 around. I've spoken to a few of them while they were here and that is what they said. We hired 4 CC Air pilots that were recalled only a few months after getting hired.
They did get money from the initial bailout, although it wasn't very much. I don't think it completely covered the lost revenue from the forced grounding.
As I've said before, I do not like the idea of PFT. I feel the same way many of the other posters do. But, I can also understand from the companies point of view why they would do so. If it's purely a dollar and sense thing, maybe a better way would be to take the money and put it in a zero yield account which would be returned to the pilot once they complete the 12 month training agreement. Rather than having to go after the people who bail, the company could simply refund the prorated portion of the contract if/when they bail early.
Those that PFT will do so regardless of what other people think.. and they should. You need to do what is right for you. Just make sure you are aware of what you are getting yourself into, and make sure you are the best. You're going to need to be better than the rest and hold your own in that seat. As a Captain, I'll be more than happy to help you out with line specific items, and I'll give you all the help I can while you're learning the airplane, but I won't teach you how to fly. If you can't get yourself into a hold, or fly an approach to minimums, you're going to have a problem. Like I said, you're going to have to be the best.
tittyjet
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PFT at COLGAN?!?!? I would have just about paid anything to get out of that dump when I worked there. What a joke....it didn't suprise me a bit when I heard it from one of my friends that's still there. The whole mgmt lot of them (with the exception of Mikee) are a bunch of dirtbags.
Here are a few of the latest jewels out of the chief pilots office that may amuse the rest of you:
1. They sent out an Ops Bulletin a couple of months ago stating that no one was todrink anything but bottled water in the cockpit. Not even coffee with a lid on it! Pilots who work 16 hour duty days, flying 7.8 to 7.9 not allowed to have a f*&^ing Coke or EVEN coffee.
2. They also sent out a memo (I'm sure this was courtesy of the Ice Queen) stating that flying hats were no longer to be worn in the cockpit even with the door closed....."it looks unprofessional." Hey, here's a news flash, Ed*n, look at the FO on the cover of last months ALPA magazine. Hat on! He might look unprofessional, but at least he drives a 757 instead of a stretch King Air ( no offense meant to 1900 drivers other than the Chief Pilot and his Assistant C.P.
That whole place is ass-backwards. The only qualification that one has to have to get a job there in senior management is to have, or have had, the last name Colgan.
Here's some advice to those of you who are still there: you are now over the 200 pilot mark. ALPA will now look at you. The guys name to speak with at ALPA is Ron Reinfelsch (sp). I spoke with him several years ago about getting something going before I got my ass out of there. He was receptive to the idea. There are several who are still there who are willing to help, but approach only those who you KNOW you can trust.
As for the old man, he says that if the union comes on the property that he'll shut the place down. He can't do that. If he does, he'll put too many in the family out of work; the place is a family jobs program for the inept. I can name AT LEAST seven of them who are drawing a paycheck out of that place. Not to mention his aircraft lease agreements and service agreements with US Airways.
As for the PFT, it's an unfortunate part of the biz, but it speaks volumes that that is the only way that they can assure that people feel like they have to stay -- pretty sad, really. If they treated people like humans over there, then maybe their morale and, therefore, employee retention would improve.
For all of you who are still there, keep the faith. Those on the outside know what you've been through and are thinking about you.
Here are a few of the latest jewels out of the chief pilots office that may amuse the rest of you:
1. They sent out an Ops Bulletin a couple of months ago stating that no one was todrink anything but bottled water in the cockpit. Not even coffee with a lid on it! Pilots who work 16 hour duty days, flying 7.8 to 7.9 not allowed to have a f*&^ing Coke or EVEN coffee.
2. They also sent out a memo (I'm sure this was courtesy of the Ice Queen) stating that flying hats were no longer to be worn in the cockpit even with the door closed....."it looks unprofessional." Hey, here's a news flash, Ed*n, look at the FO on the cover of last months ALPA magazine. Hat on! He might look unprofessional, but at least he drives a 757 instead of a stretch King Air ( no offense meant to 1900 drivers other than the Chief Pilot and his Assistant C.P.
That whole place is ass-backwards. The only qualification that one has to have to get a job there in senior management is to have, or have had, the last name Colgan.
Here's some advice to those of you who are still there: you are now over the 200 pilot mark. ALPA will now look at you. The guys name to speak with at ALPA is Ron Reinfelsch (sp). I spoke with him several years ago about getting something going before I got my ass out of there. He was receptive to the idea. There are several who are still there who are willing to help, but approach only those who you KNOW you can trust.
As for the old man, he says that if the union comes on the property that he'll shut the place down. He can't do that. If he does, he'll put too many in the family out of work; the place is a family jobs program for the inept. I can name AT LEAST seven of them who are drawing a paycheck out of that place. Not to mention his aircraft lease agreements and service agreements with US Airways.
As for the PFT, it's an unfortunate part of the biz, but it speaks volumes that that is the only way that they can assure that people feel like they have to stay -- pretty sad, really. If they treated people like humans over there, then maybe their morale and, therefore, employee retention would improve.
For all of you who are still there, keep the faith. Those on the outside know what you've been through and are thinking about you.
WhiteCloud
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tittyjet said:
It's one thing to lose pilots if they move on to a major but Colgan loses everybody to other Beech 1900 or Saab 340 jobs or other parallel equipment moves. They also lose a certain number that just quit to get out and line something up later. That's pathetic. These clowns that are paying to work there are making a mistake.
tittyjet
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tittyjet
Throbbing Member
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- 275
Ziggy1:
Amen about the folks going to other 1900 and Saab operators. That speaks volumes in itself. Although I don't quite know how I feel about PFT, I do know that I would advise anyone and everyone not to PFT with that bunch of dirtbag-scum clowns.
BTW, I'm referring to mgmt, not the pilot group.
Amen about the folks going to other 1900 and Saab operators. That speaks volumes in itself. Although I don't quite know how I feel about PFT, I do know that I would advise anyone and everyone not to PFT with that bunch of dirtbag-scum clowns.
BTW, I'm referring to mgmt, not the pilot group.
"Seriously, though someone in the pilot group there needs to grow some nads and get the ALPA train rolling"
Yeah because ALPA does so much for cummuter airlines and their pilots. Go ahead DW and the mainline guys need your 2% so they can finance their MEC meetings/parties on a yatch in Miami.
Yeah because ALPA does so much for cummuter airlines and their pilots. Go ahead DW and the mainline guys need your 2% so they can finance their MEC meetings/parties on a yatch in Miami.
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