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Colgan PFT
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chperplt
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TriDriver
Yes, they have spent an enormous amount of money on training folks that have left very soon after getting on line. 4 or 5 of them were Mainline furloughs that were not happy flying a 1900 around. I've spoken to a few of them while they were here and that is what they said. We hired 4 CC Air pilots that were recalled only a few months after getting hired.
They did get money from the initial bailout, although it wasn't very much. I don't think it completely covered the lost revenue from the forced grounding.
As I've said before, I do not like the idea of PFT. I feel the same way many of the other posters do. But, I can also understand from the companies point of view why they would do so. If it's purely a dollar and sense thing, maybe a better way would be to take the money and put it in a zero yield account which would be returned to the pilot once they complete the 12 month training agreement. Rather than having to go after the people who bail, the company could simply refund the prorated portion of the contract if/when they bail early.
Those that PFT will do so regardless of what other people think.. and they should. You need to do what is right for you. Just make sure you are aware of what you are getting yourself into, and make sure you are the best. You're going to need to be better than the rest and hold your own in that seat. As a Captain, I'll be more than happy to help you out with line specific items, and I'll give you all the help I can while you're learning the airplane, but I won't teach you how to fly. If you can't get yourself into a hold, or fly an approach to minimums, you're going to have a problem. Like I said, you're going to have to be the best.
Yes, they have spent an enormous amount of money on training folks that have left very soon after getting on line. 4 or 5 of them were Mainline furloughs that were not happy flying a 1900 around. I've spoken to a few of them while they were here and that is what they said. We hired 4 CC Air pilots that were recalled only a few months after getting hired.
They did get money from the initial bailout, although it wasn't very much. I don't think it completely covered the lost revenue from the forced grounding.
As I've said before, I do not like the idea of PFT. I feel the same way many of the other posters do. But, I can also understand from the companies point of view why they would do so. If it's purely a dollar and sense thing, maybe a better way would be to take the money and put it in a zero yield account which would be returned to the pilot once they complete the 12 month training agreement. Rather than having to go after the people who bail, the company could simply refund the prorated portion of the contract if/when they bail early.
Those that PFT will do so regardless of what other people think.. and they should. You need to do what is right for you. Just make sure you are aware of what you are getting yourself into, and make sure you are the best. You're going to need to be better than the rest and hold your own in that seat. As a Captain, I'll be more than happy to help you out with line specific items, and I'll give you all the help I can while you're learning the airplane, but I won't teach you how to fly. If you can't get yourself into a hold, or fly an approach to minimums, you're going to have a problem. Like I said, you're going to have to be the best.
tittyjet
Throbbing Member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2003
- Posts
- 275
PFT at COLGAN?!?!? I would have just about paid anything to get out of that dump when I worked there. What a joke....it didn't suprise me a bit when I heard it from one of my friends that's still there. The whole mgmt lot of them (with the exception of Mikee) are a bunch of dirtbags.
Here are a few of the latest jewels out of the chief pilots office that may amuse the rest of you:
1. They sent out an Ops Bulletin a couple of months ago stating that no one was todrink anything but bottled water in the cockpit. Not even coffee with a lid on it! Pilots who work 16 hour duty days, flying 7.8 to 7.9 not allowed to have a f*&^ing Coke or EVEN coffee.
2. They also sent out a memo (I'm sure this was courtesy of the Ice Queen) stating that flying hats were no longer to be worn in the cockpit even with the door closed....."it looks unprofessional." Hey, here's a news flash, Ed*n, look at the FO on the cover of last months ALPA magazine. Hat on! He might look unprofessional, but at least he drives a 757 instead of a stretch King Air ( no offense meant to 1900 drivers other than the Chief Pilot and his Assistant C.P.
That whole place is ass-backwards. The only qualification that one has to have to get a job there in senior management is to have, or have had, the last name Colgan.
Here's some advice to those of you who are still there: you are now over the 200 pilot mark. ALPA will now look at you. The guys name to speak with at ALPA is Ron Reinfelsch (sp). I spoke with him several years ago about getting something going before I got my ass out of there. He was receptive to the idea. There are several who are still there who are willing to help, but approach only those who you KNOW you can trust.
As for the old man, he says that if the union comes on the property that he'll shut the place down. He can't do that. If he does, he'll put too many in the family out of work; the place is a family jobs program for the inept. I can name AT LEAST seven of them who are drawing a paycheck out of that place. Not to mention his aircraft lease agreements and service agreements with US Airways.
As for the PFT, it's an unfortunate part of the biz, but it speaks volumes that that is the only way that they can assure that people feel like they have to stay -- pretty sad, really. If they treated people like humans over there, then maybe their morale and, therefore, employee retention would improve.
For all of you who are still there, keep the faith. Those on the outside know what you've been through and are thinking about you.
Here are a few of the latest jewels out of the chief pilots office that may amuse the rest of you:
1. They sent out an Ops Bulletin a couple of months ago stating that no one was todrink anything but bottled water in the cockpit. Not even coffee with a lid on it! Pilots who work 16 hour duty days, flying 7.8 to 7.9 not allowed to have a f*&^ing Coke or EVEN coffee.
2. They also sent out a memo (I'm sure this was courtesy of the Ice Queen) stating that flying hats were no longer to be worn in the cockpit even with the door closed....."it looks unprofessional." Hey, here's a news flash, Ed*n, look at the FO on the cover of last months ALPA magazine. Hat on! He might look unprofessional, but at least he drives a 757 instead of a stretch King Air ( no offense meant to 1900 drivers other than the Chief Pilot and his Assistant C.P.
That whole place is ass-backwards. The only qualification that one has to have to get a job there in senior management is to have, or have had, the last name Colgan.
Here's some advice to those of you who are still there: you are now over the 200 pilot mark. ALPA will now look at you. The guys name to speak with at ALPA is Ron Reinfelsch (sp). I spoke with him several years ago about getting something going before I got my ass out of there. He was receptive to the idea. There are several who are still there who are willing to help, but approach only those who you KNOW you can trust.
As for the old man, he says that if the union comes on the property that he'll shut the place down. He can't do that. If he does, he'll put too many in the family out of work; the place is a family jobs program for the inept. I can name AT LEAST seven of them who are drawing a paycheck out of that place. Not to mention his aircraft lease agreements and service agreements with US Airways.
As for the PFT, it's an unfortunate part of the biz, but it speaks volumes that that is the only way that they can assure that people feel like they have to stay -- pretty sad, really. If they treated people like humans over there, then maybe their morale and, therefore, employee retention would improve.
For all of you who are still there, keep the faith. Those on the outside know what you've been through and are thinking about you.
WhiteCloud
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2002
- Posts
- 1,012
tittyjet said:
It's one thing to lose pilots if they move on to a major but Colgan loses everybody to other Beech 1900 or Saab 340 jobs or other parallel equipment moves. They also lose a certain number that just quit to get out and line something up later. That's pathetic. These clowns that are paying to work there are making a mistake.
tittyjet
Throbbing Member
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- Apr 20, 2003
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- 275
tittyjet
Throbbing Member
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- Apr 20, 2003
- Posts
- 275
Ziggy1:
Amen about the folks going to other 1900 and Saab operators. That speaks volumes in itself. Although I don't quite know how I feel about PFT, I do know that I would advise anyone and everyone not to PFT with that bunch of dirtbag-scum clowns.
BTW, I'm referring to mgmt, not the pilot group.
Amen about the folks going to other 1900 and Saab operators. That speaks volumes in itself. Although I don't quite know how I feel about PFT, I do know that I would advise anyone and everyone not to PFT with that bunch of dirtbag-scum clowns.
BTW, I'm referring to mgmt, not the pilot group.
"Seriously, though someone in the pilot group there needs to grow some nads and get the ALPA train rolling"
Yeah because ALPA does so much for cummuter airlines and their pilots. Go ahead DW and the mainline guys need your 2% so they can finance their MEC meetings/parties on a yatch in Miami.
Yeah because ALPA does so much for cummuter airlines and their pilots. Go ahead DW and the mainline guys need your 2% so they can finance their MEC meetings/parties on a yatch in Miami.
climbhappy
ex pat
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
- Posts
- 2,159
life at colgan
to put a spin on it, in the spirit of O'Reilly, let me say that:
tittyjet was a little harsh. no offense meant but actually the chief and chief asst are the messengers, not the policy makers.
aside from being a family owned and managed business, one has to see that any owner will take care of their own, sure it offends but they own the company, so you can stay or leave.
i , like many others were furloughed and needed a job , they gave me one. for that i'm thankful. when you're flying a computer at 2:00 in the afternoon and a six pack instead of an arrival, it sucks.
if you understand the culture at colgan, you can do your time and be gone . they know that, so why try to change your mind.
to get back on topic, in the early nineties , the same or similar conditions existed and two things happened:
PFT and an exodus from a career field with a bleak outlook.
same thing is happening now. Without PFT , there is LESS COMPETITION FOR JOBS, and its the only logical reason ,in my view , that could cause someone to hate a PFT'er. Don't try to confuse with professionalism and its a bad resume thing or any of that crap. It's a job thing. and we know money talks, right.
I said this is a no spin zone. So colgan is doing what they have to to suceed in a down market.
plain and simple. money talks, BS sits on the curb.
me, I'm looking like everyone else, who wouldn't be, but in the end the enemy isn't colgan or PFT,
it is this FRICKIN CYCLICAL BUSINESS WE'RE IN, AND right now we are at rock bottom. It can only better.
to put a spin on it, in the spirit of O'Reilly, let me say that:
tittyjet was a little harsh. no offense meant but actually the chief and chief asst are the messengers, not the policy makers.
aside from being a family owned and managed business, one has to see that any owner will take care of their own, sure it offends but they own the company, so you can stay or leave.
i , like many others were furloughed and needed a job , they gave me one. for that i'm thankful. when you're flying a computer at 2:00 in the afternoon and a six pack instead of an arrival, it sucks.
if you understand the culture at colgan, you can do your time and be gone . they know that, so why try to change your mind.
to get back on topic, in the early nineties , the same or similar conditions existed and two things happened:
PFT and an exodus from a career field with a bleak outlook.
same thing is happening now. Without PFT , there is LESS COMPETITION FOR JOBS, and its the only logical reason ,in my view , that could cause someone to hate a PFT'er. Don't try to confuse with professionalism and its a bad resume thing or any of that crap. It's a job thing. and we know money talks, right.
I said this is a no spin zone. So colgan is doing what they have to to suceed in a down market.
plain and simple. money talks, BS sits on the curb.
me, I'm looking like everyone else, who wouldn't be, but in the end the enemy isn't colgan or PFT,
it is this FRICKIN CYCLICAL BUSINESS WE'RE IN, AND right now we are at rock bottom. It can only better.
FlightTraker
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 328
WhiteCloud
Well-known member
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- Dec 20, 2002
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chperplt
Registered User
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,123
Is it the Saab thats sitting infront of the old TWA hangar? If thats the one I was told it was clipped by a bag cart. But hey you know how info gets skewed around in this bizz.
I had the privliged oppertunity last week to see a LGA tug driver hit the stairs comming off a jetway. He hit them hard enough to turn the stairs about 45 degrees so that there was about a 1 to 1.5 foot gap between them and the jetway end. The end of the jetway was about 15-20 feet off the ground. He just kept driving. The not so funny thing is that there were people walking down the jetway at the time, lucky nobody had made it to the stairs. To top it off instead of sending the pax back inside to board from the another gate or by using the terminal elevator or stairs, she wanted the pax to "just hop over the gap" and walk down the stairs that had been hit by the tug.
I had the privliged oppertunity last week to see a LGA tug driver hit the stairs comming off a jetway. He hit them hard enough to turn the stairs about 45 degrees so that there was about a 1 to 1.5 foot gap between them and the jetway end. The end of the jetway was about 15-20 feet off the ground. He just kept driving. The not so funny thing is that there were people walking down the jetway at the time, lucky nobody had made it to the stairs. To top it off instead of sending the pax back inside to board from the another gate or by using the terminal elevator or stairs, she wanted the pax to "just hop over the gap" and walk down the stairs that had been hit by the tug.
chperplt
Registered User
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,123
I'm not sure where it is parked. Here's the FAA narative. The wing was damaged well beyond repair and will need a new one.
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 664B Make/Model: FA50 Description: FALCON 50, MYSTÈRE 50
Date: 05/22/2003 Time: 0210
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Minor Mid Air: Y Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
City: NEW YORK State: NY Country: US
DESCRIPTION
US AIR, N664B, FALCON50 ACFT, ON TAXIING RUNWAY 13, COLLIDED WITH COLGAN AIR FLIGHT 5056, AN SF34, ON TAXIWAY BRAVO BRAVO AND ALFA ALFA, BOTH WERE
TAXIING FOR DEPARTURE, ONE REPORTED INJURY TO A FLIGHT ATTENDANT, N664B SUSTAINED LEFT WINDSHIELD DAMAGE AND COLGAN ACFT SUSTAINED LEFT WING DAMAGE, LAGUARDIA, NY
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk: Y
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: Y
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: KLGA 220251Z 03006KT 10SM OVC018 15/12 A3018
OTHER DATA
Activity: Business Phase: Taxi Operation: Air Carrier
Departed: LAGUARDIA, NY Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: PARIS, FRANCE Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing: U
Last Radio Cont: UNK
Last Clearance: UNK
FAA FSDO: GARDEN CITY, NY (EA15) Entry date: 05/22/2003
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 664B Make/Model: FA50 Description: FALCON 50, MYSTÈRE 50
Date: 05/22/2003 Time: 0210
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Minor Mid Air: Y Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
City: NEW YORK State: NY Country: US
DESCRIPTION
US AIR, N664B, FALCON50 ACFT, ON TAXIING RUNWAY 13, COLLIDED WITH COLGAN AIR FLIGHT 5056, AN SF34, ON TAXIWAY BRAVO BRAVO AND ALFA ALFA, BOTH WERE
TAXIING FOR DEPARTURE, ONE REPORTED INJURY TO A FLIGHT ATTENDANT, N664B SUSTAINED LEFT WINDSHIELD DAMAGE AND COLGAN ACFT SUSTAINED LEFT WING DAMAGE, LAGUARDIA, NY
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk: Y
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: Y
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: KLGA 220251Z 03006KT 10SM OVC018 15/12 A3018
OTHER DATA
Activity: Business Phase: Taxi Operation: Air Carrier
Departed: LAGUARDIA, NY Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: PARIS, FRANCE Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing: U
Last Radio Cont: UNK
Last Clearance: UNK
FAA FSDO: GARDEN CITY, NY (EA15) Entry date: 05/22/2003
chperplt
Registered User
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- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,123
I hope they are both still employed. I've been asking that question and no one I've talked to has an answer.
I did hear that the ATC tapes clearly show that the Falcon was at fault. If you know LGA and the AA, BB, and CC taxiways, you know that ground will sequence from all 3, and the Falcon failed to follow proper sequence. The one injury was our flight attendant and he was taken to the hospital and released.
I did hear that the ATC tapes clearly show that the Falcon was at fault. If you know LGA and the AA, BB, and CC taxiways, you know that ground will sequence from all 3, and the Falcon failed to follow proper sequence. The one injury was our flight attendant and he was taken to the hospital and released.
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