Colgan or ACA

[sayagain?]

You have a tough decision to make. Keep in mind, If you take the Coglan job and then jump ship a few weeks in, you just screwed a fellow pilot out of the slot you took.

chperplt-

I understand where you are coming from. But would you feel the same if someone in ground school at Colgan left to go to Southwest or JetBlue?

sayagain?

 

[chperplt]

But would you feel the same if someone in ground school at Colgan left to go to Southwest or JetBlue?

I can't imagine anyone with the qualification for Southwest or JetBlue applying at Colgan, but I would feel the same way. I'm not saying that they shouldn't go. It would be crazy of them not to go.

You have do what's right for you in this world.. But like a few have said, the aviation industry is a relatively small family. ACA and Colgan HQs are just a few miles from one another and they talk often.

 

[RJPilott]

and they talk often.

chperplt, i enjoy reading your posts. But this is hogwash! you really think Kerry Skeen or Tom Moore at ACA have a problem grabbing pilots from a carrier down the road? This is America bud. Free Enterprise. If Colgan made their employee packages more attractive maybe they wouldnt have the problem of pilots jumping ship. Perhaps they would get pilots jumping from ACA to Colgan. ACA is not peaches and cherries all the time, but healthy competition is what keeps the world moving forward. I have a few friends i helped leave Colgan for ACA prior to their year at Colgan. We have over 1500 pilots. Most majors have over 5000. The community is not that small to worry about one pilot jumping from a 17/hr paying job to better his QOL at another company. Matter of fact, that pilot should get a pat on the back for letting their previous company know they are inadequate for todays market.


I would say, go to Colgan since its the first offer. When ACA calls for a class and you feel ACA will suit you better, go to ACA. If more pilots do that at Colgan, maybe their management will wake up and make it attractive for people to stick around. Dont worry about taking a slot away from another pilot. You earned the job at Colgan so its yours to do with what you want. I would look at it as you will open a slot for another pilot if you leave.

 

[chperplt]

But this is hogwash! you really think Kerry Skeen or Tom Moore at ACA have a problem grabbing pilots from a carrier down the road?

RJPilott

No, I don't think for one-second that anyone at any airline gives a rats behind about grabbing pilots from another carrier.

Like I said, you do what you have to do. Carrier advancement is always a good thing. Just remember, if you sign the contract and leave, be willing to repay as you agreed to do.

Last I heard, Colgan was paying everyone $50 a day during training and putting you in a hotel. I would imagine that if you leave before the sim, you would only be asked to pay back what you've taken. I don't know for sure, but that's my guess.

As for giving a guy a pat on his back for telling his last employer that they were inadequate for today's market. I think you are fully aware of what pay and benefits you will receive prior to accepting a job.

I assume you're referring to Colgan with that remark, and while I would love a pay raise, I don't think pay and most benefits at Colgan are inadequate for the flying we do. Granted Beech FOs start at $17, which is low, but not as low as other 1900 operators pay. Second year Beech Captain pay is $31.50 an hour.. I don't think that too far out of line for a Beech 1900.... is it?

 

[RJPilott]

Second year Beech Captain pay is $31.50 an hour.. I don't think that too far out of line for a Beech 1900.... is it?

Second year pay for a FO on the J41 is 34/hr (with a year seat freeze, but with upgrades going more than 2 years, its worth it to take the freeze) Pay for cancellation, premium pay for extentions (150%-200%), no junior manning, ACALink (internet website for crew members to check schedules, do trip trades, pick up open time, view timecards, check PRF's etc). We dont get a hotel paid during training, which hopefully will change and its only 200/wk in training. As far as paying back Colgan, i have yet to meet one person that was told to pay up when they left before the year was over. Matter of fact i think it is illegal in most states to charge for company training so it doesnt even hold up in court. Not to mention the lawyer costs to the company will probably exceed the reward. BTW, most friends i helped get hired at ACA from Colgan had less than 1500 total time.


Yes, people are fully aware before they take the job. Pilots leaving Colgan before their year is up with risk of having to re-pay a training contract says to me their company employee package is inadequate and at the very least, not attractive enough for pilots to stay even with the threat of a training contract. Why do you think ACA doesnt have a training contract anymore? perhaps its because ACA is attractive for todays market? Not that im defending ACA training package, cause it still needs improvement. We also have pilots jumping ship in training to more attractive airlines. God Bless em... hopefully if more jump the ACA ship it will wake up our management to pay for a friggin hotel!

 

[chperplt]

Second year pay for a FO on the J41 is 34/hr (with a year seat freeze, but with upgrades going more than 2 years, its worth it to take the freeze) Pay for cancellation, premium pay for extentions (150%-200%), no junior manning, ACALink (internet website for crew members to check schedules, do trip trades, pick up open time, view timecards, check PRF's etc).

Can't compare a J41 to a Beech 1900, can you?? No, I don't think so.

We get paid for cancellations.. Both weather and mechanicals.. We work on our day off and we get a minimum of 4 hours pay or block (which ever is greater) on top of minimum guarantee. We can go on our website and bid our schedules..

Pilots leaving Colgan before their year is up with risk of having to re-pay a training contract says to me their company employee package is inadequate and at the very least, not attractive enough for pilots to stay even with the threat of a training contract.

I'm glad you're happy at ACA.. I've been at Colgan a little over a year and am racking up nearly 100hrs PIC each month. Last month I flew 94 hours and had 19 days off. This time next year I'll be competitive at Southwest, Airtran ect... Many of your FOs will still be FOs. You might make more money now, and have it better now, but it's not about now.. It's about later.. I'll take what you call inadequate for a year or two and reap the benefits later..

 

[Anaconda]

i guess if there is one thing that's true it's that you have a difficult decision if you get the aca offer. do you have a wife, kids, girlfriend, where do you want to live, etc. all those things come into play. a year or two ago some might have said go for the quick upgrade so you can get that pic time. but now, it's a different world. a year or two of pic might not make you that competitive, given the competition that's out there. check out the jetblue site and take a look at their competitive mins. it's not a pilot's market anymore. ask yourself, do i want to fly a 1900 for the next 10 or 15 years (or longer) or go somewhere with better equip., pay, scheds., etc. god forbid that you have to do it that long, but you just never know, do you? i had to make a similar decision to you, and i'm very happy i made the one i did.

chperplt, where did you fly the oh-58?

 

[RJPilott]

This time next year I'll be competitive at Southwest, Airtran ect... Many of your FOs will still be FOs. You might make more money now, and have it better now, but it's not about now.. It's about later.. I'll take what you call inadequate for a year or two and reap the benefits later..

Dont mean to burst your bubble but....This time next year most of our pilots (800 or so) will have more than 5000tt and 2500 PIC Jet/J41 with resumes at Airtran, SWA, jB, etc for well over a year. That will be your competition when you decide to send your resume. Not to mention all the other Jet PIC candidates from ASA, Comair, CoEx, Eagle, Skywest, ARW, Mesa, etc etc etc, included with those resumes will be US Air furloughed pilots with A320 type ratings, UAL Furloughees with 737 type ratings etc etc... that already have their resumes on file with the above mentioned. Im one of em...

 

[chperplt]

Dont mean to burst your bubble but....This time next year most of our pilots (800 or so) will have more than 5000tt and 2500 PIC Jet/J41 with resumes at Airtran, SWA, jB, etc for well over a year.

Not bursting my bubble my friend..

This industry is a good part who you know... and fortunately for me, I know people in high places at both of those carriers.

 

[Anaconda]

chperplt, where did you fly the oh-58?