Colgan Crash That Killed 50 Spurs Quest for Damages That Punish

[CX880]

simply being negligent does not get you punative damages. The actions of the crew were found to cause the accident (per the NTSB). One pilot lied on his application and they both failed to follow the training they were given.

you mean like the training they received from SAAB 340 Checkairmen on the Q 400????????

 

[rogerwilcoout]

And then all the Q400s and associated flying would get moved to commutair. Problem solved.

With that being your point of view, all the comair flying should go somewhere else after the Lexington accident, right? Riiiiiiight?

 

[Raoul Duke]

Didn't the Comair flying go to Freedom? Just say'n

 

[Brae123]

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[dingo222]

you mean like the training they received from SAAB 340 Checkairmen on the Q 400????????

they didn't recieve training from 340 check airman on the q400. They had 340 check airman in the q jumpseat doing observations on a compliance crackdown weekend. Just as bad, but let's get that fixed before it snowballs into another turd......

 

[livin'thesim]

The problem was not inferior training as much as it was an inferior captain.

No amount of training can fix someone who has no business in the cockpit. There are plenty of pilots who have received excellent training who have also crashed.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep, something we thought PRIA would fix, didn't. Or didn't go back far enough. But you're right, the captain should never have been in a position to kill all those people!

 

[WSurf]

Yep, something we thought PRIA would fix, didn't. Or didn't go back far enough. But you're right, the captain should never have been in a position to kill all those people!

And the First Officier is just as responsible for sitting there and letting it all unfold.

 

[superrav]

I've talked to a few people that jumpseat on them, and they have had problems with the Q way before the accident and they had a incident i believe in burlington when the shaker went off for the same reason, POWER not applied during level off.

Why do you think the FAA inspector that was assigned to them wanted to shut them down???

I hope those families get what they deserve!! Justice!!

the CAPT was a absolute moron!! YES, i said it!! Freakin disgrace to all of us.

 

[ultrarunner]

...the CAPT was a absolute moron!! YES, i said it!! Freakin disgrace to all of us.

Yep, and as Wsurf said, so was the FO...she was just as worthless, as a competent FO would not have let the CA kill everyone!

 

[WSurf]

Yep, and as Wsurf said, so was the FO...she was just as worthless, as a competent FO would not have let the CA kill everyone!

Winner Winner chicken dinner! A competent FO would have said, "hey watch you're speed!" And then jumped in to had power if dumb bird on the left didn't do anything. Oh well!

 

[CFI2766]

As an FO, I had an incident similar to this during my first year. To make a long story short, I stomped on the brakes to keep a Captain from taxiing onto an active runway, without a clearance, just as a Citation was crossing the fence. The Captain had the gall to begin chewing me out for touching 'his brakes'. I silently took this one sided dialogue for the duration of the short flight until we arrived back in the hub. Once the shutdown check was completed, a whole different conversation began; one initiated by me.

Though it felt good to speak my mind to this individual, (FWIW, he was exceptionally polite to me for the rest of the trip), I was the one who screwed up. In my desire to go along to get along, I finished the trip, went home, and told no one.

What I should have done was leave the trip, report to the CP, and make sure the A/C was powered off so as to save the CVR. Though I didn't know that it existed as a resource at the time, If I had to do the same situation over again, I would have been in touch with our Pro Stands folks as well.

I received no, zero, zilch, nada in the way of training from my company on what do do in this situation.

In this particular case, the situation has solved itself in that the former Captain no longer works for our airline. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, he is no longer involved in Aviation.

 

[WSurf]

As an FO, I had an incident similar to this during my first year. To make a long story short, I stomped on the brakes to keep a Captain from taxiing onto an active runway, without a clearance, just as a Citation was crossing the fence. The Captain had the gall to begin chewing me out for touching 'his brakes'. I silently took this one sided dialogue for the duration of the short flight until we arrived back in the hub. Once the shutdown check was completed, a whole different conversation began; one initiated by me.

Though it felt good to speak my mind to this individual, (FWIW, he was exceptionally polite to me for the rest of the trip), I was the one who screwed up. In my desire to go along to get along, I finished the trip, went home, and told no one.

What I should have done was leave the trip, report to the CP, and make sure the A/C was powered off so as to save the CVR. Though I didn't know that it existed as a resource at the time, If I had to do the same situation over again, I would have been in touch with our Pro Stands folks as well.

I received no, zero, zilch, nada in the way of training from my company on what do do in this situation.

In this particular case, the situation has solved itself in that the former Captain no longer works for our airline. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, he is no longer involved in Aviation.

Sometimes you don't need to go anywhere with it! The dude was a ****************************** bag for not thanking you for you're heads up. I have been a Captain for over 6 years and I have never ever had a problem with an FO questioning anything I have done. Its a team game up there. Our mission is to get through the trip and try and have fun at the same time.
So don't sweat it. You did you're part to protect ur on butt. And it just shows what kinda of ****************************** bag u were flying with.

 

[buscap]

Does your airline have ASAP? That would've been the way to go, for both of you.

As far as your proposed course of action, (CVR and Chief pilot), I'm sure you know that would not be the right move. How many times has a Captain kept you from doing something stupid? That's why there are two crewmembers.

It sounds like he changed his tune after you had your say and it sounds like you handled it well, by waiting a while to talk about it.

No, he should not be a dooosh about it in the first place, but please get back to me at age 65 and a day and let me know if you never make that mistake.

And yes, he should have said thanks and sorry in that order, and then bought you a beer.

By the way, I had an FO do this very thing for me once. I said thanks, but I doubt if I said thanks enough, now that I've read your post. But it's all about the KARMA, because every now and then I find myself being huffed or guffawed at when i ask the FO to query tower about us being cleared to cross.

And then there's that time when the FO jammed on the brakes nearly killing our FA, just because I crossed the ILS holdshort (clear day).

It's a big world full of all sorts of dooshes. We're all just trying to keep things summer fresh.

And granted, this little tangent has not much to do with stalling an airplane.

That Crew was a perfect storm of poor training, lack of discipline, and inexperience in the aircraft for the Captain and inexperience in the job for the FO.

 

[G-force]

Cash poor!!!!

A high school student with mock trial experience should be able to get 100 millon out of Colgan. All they have to do is show that PBS special on Colgan. It's as clear cut as they come when it comes to negligence in training, all they have to do is convince a jury and plus no one would miss Colgan anyways if they were forced to liquidate. Good luck to Colgan.

It is highly unlikely that Colgan Air is worth $100 million,infact is more likely Colgan Air is not even worth $1 million,since all the aircraft are "leased" along with hangar space,gates,office space,computers,etc,etc!!!!!
They are just like all the other regionals,cash poor!!!!!