Colgan Crash Probable Cause

[chperplt]

maybe they can hire you to watch those **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** FOs on their walkarounds ...

TheBigL

Take it easy there, big fellah!

Since your obviously one of the new 100 or so FOs Colgan has had to hire to replace everyone else who quit, I'll assume you're not as much of a moron as you appear to be.

Rather than jumping down people throats, especially people to fought hard to make your job a little better, try and learn a little from them. What you learn here today, might just save your life tomorrow.

With 1400 hours, I assume you've earned your job. That's about all you've earned so far. Keep learning and remember to tell D.N. and D.R. not just NO, but hell NO.

 

[climbhappy]

Big H Dude

i worked for your airline. and our classroom was right next to the little dance academy that Mrs. colgan runs . As for your chief pilot, he would be "remiss" as he liked to start every conference call, if he didn't chew on your ass for not conducting a proper preflight.

 

[TheBigH]

TheBigL

Take it easy there, big fellah!

Dude relax your bones man, I wasn't jumping down anyone's throat, all I was trying to do is to get the point accross that you gotta watch your own ass, not only to play by the rules but to be safe for your own good, that's all .... btw the censored part wasn't even a bad word ...

Hey I appreciate what all you guys have done in the past to improve things, I get the feel that things have gotten better, maybe it's because the Saab operation is overshadowing the Beech, who knows.

In any case, you're right with 1400 hrs what the hell do I know, imagine what those guys going to XJT with 800/100 know ... scary ...

btw, I haven't met DN or DR but I've sure heard plenty about them ... we'll see ...

i worked for your airline. and our classroom was right next to the little dance academy

Dude that dance studio was funny, the last couple of days we were there you could hear ballroom music playing as we had class, lol ....

 

[chperplt]

In any case, you're right with 1400 hrs what the hell do I know, imagine what those guys going to XJT with 800/100 know ... scary ...

I respect your sarcasm, but the fact is those 800/100 pilots at XJT have a much easier job than you do. They don't have to be able to fly an airplane very well, but you do. They don't have to have any customer service skills, but you do. Ask some of the senior guys you fly with what it was like flying with some of the 500 hour guys than came on line this time last year..

 

[TheBigH]

those 800/100 pilots at XJT have a much easier job than you do.

Agree 100% , even my EMB145 budies @ CHQ admit it

Ask some of the senior guys you fly with what it was like flying with some of the 500 hour guys

Man I don't think I need to ask them, I can just imagine how bad those guys had it. All I can tell you is that I do everything to be a good pilot and an even better PNF.

 

[Jetmech41]

First Flight of the day checklist

I've got the checklist right in front of me (Revision 4, 30 April 2002). There is no "First Flight of the day Checklist." Just after the "After Start Checklist," it says in itallics(and I quote)

If First Flight of the Day

First Flight of Day Checks
.............COMPLETED CR
That is all that was on the checklist

---------------------------------------------------------------

The Factual report was put out in the last couple of days on the ntsb website. Pg.1a and I quote: At 1530:04, the captain called for the After Start checklist. After completing the After Start checklist items, the first officer announced the ckecklist "Complete".

SO....From what I understand the crew is accused of skipping the first flight of the day check list Correct?? So if they completed the after start check list which is only required if it is the first flight of the day then they completed the first flight of the day checklist!!! So what seems to be the problem as far as Steve and Scott are concerned? I didnt see any mention of not completeing a preflight walk around.

 

[FlightTraker]

clarification

Jetmech,

Maybe I am reading you post wrong, but the afterstart checklist is always done after every engine start. The "first flight of the day" line was only done before the actual first flight. For example: a crew shows up in the morning at the gate or hangar and walks out to an airplane that sat overnight. After the FO does a preflight (nothing like a preflight in the dark at 5:30 AM in February in upstate NY) the engines are started and then each pilot goes through his/her First Flight of the Day flow. It is published in the Flight manual, but there is no actual checklist. The airplane is shut down and passengers boarded. Engines are started and the After Start Checklist completed. Because this is the first flight of the day for this crew and aircraft, the "First Flight of the Day, Checks Complete" portion of the checklist is read, and confirmed.


FlightTraker

 

[chperplt]

At 1530:04, the captain called for the After Start checklist. After completing the After Start checklist items, the first officer announced the ckecklist "Complete".

SO....From what I understand the crew is accused of skipping the first flight of the day check list Correct?? So if they completed the after start check list which is only required if it is the first flight of the day then they completed the first flight of the day checklist!!! So what seems to be the problem as far as Steve and Scott are concerned?

Bob,

Let me expand on what my friend FlightTraker said..

The "first flight of the day" checks are preflight checks of systems that only occur before the first flight of each day. These checks include items such as a fire detection check, engine governor function, and a propellor feathering test to name a few.

The "first flight of the day" checks are in what is called the "expanded" checklist. This is a checklist within a checklist that is published within the company flight manual. On the Colgan checklist, the "first flight of the day" checks are included in the after start checklist. They are only verbalized on the checklist after the first flight of the day. At other times they are ignored.

It's obvious to me that the FAA and or NTSB investigators did not do a very complete investigation into Colgan operations. This is made clear as I mentioned above, when the investigator asks why Scott failed to mention the trim work while discussing MELs.. Had he investigated properly, he would have known that Scott would not have that information on his maintenance logbook.