Colgan ALPA

[better up here]

So here's the deal... it's time. Yep, we need to start thinking about this job as a little more than a quick upgrade or just getting to our 1500 PIC. I'm not sure where else to start talking about this other than here. Just admit it... we are all scared to take the first step for fear of our jobs. They don't want it, but WE do! All of you do. Well most of you do, and most are willing to admit it, but not put your name to it.

There is a way to get this done, and not end up on some Colgan black list...

For it or against it, lets hear it.

It's time to grow up and get treated for the professionals that we are. You are all hard working pilots and it's time we have a united voice.

If there is a vote, are you in?

 

[80for80]

What if Mr. Colgan finds out?

 

[Turtlesfly]

if gayjets can get a contract, so can you.

 

[suupah]

well lets take the average pilot salary at 32k a year (average between capt and fo) multiply that by 2% union dues. that gets you $640. multiply that by 350 pilots. that gets you 224,000 bucks a year. I don't think that will get much interst from alpa or any other union.

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Really I am not informed enought on this subject. From what I gather we will just wind up buying a really expensive magazine subscription and pissing off management. I have not felt the need to have a union. I think we are getting paid competitively with other turboprop flyers. Yeah second year FO pay sucks but they are working on that and have realized that. Maybe if another people out there would give some good reasons why and how our lives at Colgan could be improved I would listen.

 

[CA1900]

CommutAir was able to interest ALPA, with a smaller pilot group and lower average salary. Hope you have better success at it than they did, though. Apathy was the order of the day for 57% of that group, unfortunately.

 

[Capn Lucky]

As a Colgan refugee, I can tell you that there are trade offs when you consider a Unionizing carrier. There are some issues at Colgan that need to be addressed like outstation basing and the notorious Colgan Tours of part 91 flying. With the recent growth at Colgan, I'm sure there are new issues I never experienced.I'm sure guys who are there now can speak with more authority than me. You may want to consider an independent association first. The one thing I miss about that place was being able to call someone named Colgan when I needed a favor. Most of the time, I got it. Also there are more than a few senior captains, who I believe are still there who were seriously anti-alpa. Good luck!!

 

[suupah]

As a Colgan refugee, I can tell you that there are trade offs when you consider a Unionizing carrier. There are some issues at Colgan that need to be addressed like outstation basing and the notorious Colgan Tours of part 91 flying. With the recent growth at Colgan, I'm sure there are new issues I never experienced.I'm sure guys who are there now can speak with more authority than me. You may want to consider an independent association first. The one thing I miss about that place was being able to call someone named Colgan when I needed a favor. Most of the time, I got it. Also there are more than a few senior captains, who I believe are still there who were seriously anti-alpa. Good luck!!

thanks but it is probably never going to happen. nobody is vested that heavily here anyway. a old timer is anyone over 4 years.

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Hey maybe we can sell girl scout cookies instead. I know we can all join the AOPA!

 

[vectorvictor]

CommutAir was able to interest ALPA, with a smaller pilot group and lower average salary. Hope you have better success at it than they did, though. Apathy was the order of the day for 57% of that group, unfortunately.

The movement to unionize failed twice. First I don't see ALPA as a cure-all or even a step in the right direction for an airline of our size. It seems in pilot populations much larger than ours, ALPA is vertually powerless. Ask the guys at Transstates who are watching Go Jet Scabs fly their planes around. The reality is that there are at least three less experienced folks willing to do my job for half the money. Its called supply and demand. The tides going to turn in a few years. The trend has already started....pilot trainees are down over 50% over the last 5 years.

 

[ATLplt]

Good luck to the group that heads this little adventure. The pilot group needs some sort of change that's for sure. I don't know if ALPA is the best solution, but something's gotta give. I think it would pass in Houston, but they've got everyone spread out in the Northeast for a reason. I guess you could have your meetings at the mall in PIT.

Colgan's got some great people flying there, and I hope things get better for you in the future.

Turtleneck, If you're implying that the group at Colgan is anything like G0jets you're seriously mistaken. Go troll the 200+ "I'm at XJT, and the Kool Aid tastes great!!" threads. uke:

 

[Prop2Jet]

I say we get the teamsters and Gotti. I know where he is kept! Yous agree ors what?

 

[30West]

ALPA/ Unions

Careful what you wish for.

 

[vectorvictor]

Careful what you wish for.

Exactly.

 

[FIXIT]

The Hills Have Eyes.

 

[HelloNewman]

As a Colgan refugee, I can tell you that there are trade offs when you consider a Unionizing carrier. There are some issues at Colgan that need to be addressed like outstation basing and the notorious Colgan Tours of part 91 flying. With the recent growth at Colgan, I'm sure there are new issues I never experienced.I'm sure guys who are there now can speak with more authority than me. You may want to consider an independent association first. The one thing I miss about that place was being able to call someone named Colgan when I needed a favor. Most of the time, I got it. Also there are more than a few senior captains, who I believe are still there who were seriously anti-alpa. Good luck!!

Out of curiousity what is wrong with out-station basing? You knew the bases when you signed up. How can ALPA come in and magically say you must no longer open outstations and close all current out-stations?

 

[Mr Wu]

Getting a contract is about give and take. There are some places where we could do better but at what cost? What are you willing to give up to get what you want? I've worked at another carrier that was non-union and they pretty much matched what the union carriers were giving, just to keep the union out. Colgan does the same. There's a lot to be said for not having to sit reserve, only one furlough in the company's history (everyone called back quickly), and a paycheck that doesn't have any rubber in it.

 

[Hung Start]

Ihave to agree with Mr. Wu,,sort of.
There are a lot of issues with being an Air Carrier,, issues that those in the trenches never see or think about them. Not an easy trip. But, if the Company gets to a certain size level, like Colgan, and, they forget the guys and gals that got them there, might be time to look towards a good union.
Of course, a union is only as good as its members, ON THE LOCAL LEVEL.
Me,,, I was a Teamster when I was young and driving a truck. They seemed to have the right "spirit" it took to get things done. Never have been ALPA, but I have to admit I have not seen a lot of goodness coming out of there lately.
So, Golgan guys and gals,,, be realistic, you know what you signed on for. But if Chuck and the gang forget where they came from, and who got them there,,, let 'er rip!

Hung

 

[BirdCatcher]

All i desire is a firm agreement between employees and the company. I understand the pay is bad and i have to work hard, but i knew that when i signed up. What drives me up a wall is how they change their policies day to day. Sometimes you may receive pay credit for something, sometimes not. Sometimes you have to interview to upgrade, sometimes you don't. The company has too much an ability to make up rules as they go, and policies they do have can be subject to change at any moment. This back and forth stuff needs to be fixed. Even if the company came to the pilot group and worked TOGETHER to make an ACTUAL policy and procedures manual WITHOUT a UNION and to stick to it would work for me. We are expected to keep certain professional standards day in and day out and our pilot group does a great job doing that. All I ask is management do the same. If they can't, then they brought all this big U word stuff upon themselves.

BTW a union wouldn't fix outstation basing.

 

[Thurman Merman]

DON'T CHANGE OUTSTATION BASING! I live in one of the better bases in the company and immensely enjoy my schedule. The only downfall is, it makes you lazy. I've got great contacts at the "big" airlines but I'm dragging my feet because my quality of life will never be this good again. 3 on 4 off, good senoirity and the ability to call up the gal making schedules to get days off when needed, or give you two weeks vacation off of one week requested. Too all the folks below me hopefully your senoirity number will be going up in 6 months or less. Damn you Colganitis!

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Okay bottom line is nothing is going to happen. Nobody is making any inquiries to start a union. This was just drunk talk everyone calm down. 78 percent of the Colgan posts involve alcohol that is fact just like this one. We don't have a union and we don't want one either. Colgan rules and that is all I am giong to say especially this close to upgrade.

 

[Gofish]

ALPA rocks!

 

[chperplt]

only one furlough in the company's history (everyone called back quickly), and a paycheck that doesn't have any rubber in it.

Just a little history lesson.

The Colgan family had no desire to call back any of the furloughed pilots after 9/11. Shortly after 9/11, Shuttle America started hiring Saab pilots at a feverish pace, and many of the furloughed Colgan pilots went there.

There's a clause in the contract you signed that says if you're furloughed for more than 30 days, the contract becomes void. As the Colgans' saw a good number of their pilots that they just spent $$$ training go elsewhere, they recalled the rest to avoid having to rehire and retrain. Not many came back, and the ones that did were paid to sit at home for a few months.

Had pilots not been jumping ship soon after the furlough, they would never have called them back as quickly as they did.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Getting a contract is about give and take. There are some places where we could do better but at what cost? What are you willing to give up to get what you want? I've worked at another carrier that was non-union and they pretty much matched what the union carriers were giving, just to keep the union out. Colgan does the same. There's a lot to be said for not having to sit reserve, only one furlough in the company's history (everyone called back quickly), and a paycheck that doesn't have any rubber in it.

Which is a selfish paradox in sorts. You don't want the union, but you recognize that what the unions accomplish nearly directly helps your pay and work conditions. So the time and amount of money I put into the union benefits you with no vice versa. Back to a positive sounding argument for the union, the new ALPA President and Vice President are very much concerned about the affairs of the regionals compared to Duane Worth. This is the beginning of a new era, jump in.

 

[Jet.85mmo]

What does ALPA ever due for anyone?

What does ALPA ever due for anyone? Before you responed think.

 

[better up here]

What drives me up a wall is how they change their policies day to day. Sometimes you may receive pay credit for something, sometimes not. Sometimes you have to interview to upgrade, sometimes you don't. The company has too much an ability to make up rules as they go, and policies they do have can be subject to change at any moment. This back and forth stuff needs to be fixed.

THIS is what needs to be fixed. Rules change to fit the needs of Colgan.

I never said anything in my first post about money, rules, out station bases, or any other reason to change the system. Yet these and other reasons have come up. So you see G Dub, some of us do want things to change. If not this direction, then which?

And by the way, though some of these posts may happen after a few beers, I sir, do not drink.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

What does ALPA ever due for anyone? Before you responed think.

Lets see, without much deep thought

- they greatly improved the contract at my airline over what the independent union that was in place beforehand
- they help improve the image of the airline pilot through education and dealing with the media
- they have provided medical assistance through their Aeromedical division
- they lobby the FAA and congress helping assure that rest rules are in place, that foreign carriers are not allowed free access to our skies, that the age 60 rule remains, etc., etc., etc.
- they work to improve the safety of airports, aircraft, operations, etc.
- they act as my lawyer in case I do something stupid on the job

 

[Prop2Jet]

Unions just screw people. I for one don't like my janitorial union, they make me clean the urinals with my fingers.

 

[av8tor76]

. Too all the folks below me hopefully your senoirity number will be going up in 6 months or less

really??..where ya going j?

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

THIS is what needs to be fixed. Rules change to fit the needs of Colgan.

I never said anything in my first post about money, rules, out station bases, or any other reason to change the system. Yet these and other reasons have come up. So you see G Dub, some of us do want things to change. If not this direction, then which?

And by the way, though some of these posts may happen after a few beers, I sir, do not drink.

Don't drink? There are two kinds of men that I don't trust those who don't drink and those who have middle names of cities I bet your middle name is dallas isn't it.