Colgan 3407 Down in Buffalo

[ReverseSensing]

I would like to know what kind of cockpit indications there are if there is a malfunction in the de-icing boot system on any part of the airplane and/or tail.

There are two caution lights associated with the airframe deice system: one that indicates a loss of deice pressure (with a backup gauge) and/or the failure of a boot set to fully inflate after the distributor valve opens or if a boot set remains inflated after the distributor valve closes. The second caution indicates a deice timer failure.

As to your comment about torque reaction: obviously 10,000 shp applied to 13 foot conventional rotating props will require a pilot to react as you might expect. It is certainly possible that the initial left bank was due to a failure to apply enough (or any) right rudder. I don't know what actually happened, though.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

As to your comment about torque reaction: obviously 10,000 shp applied to 13 foot conventional rotating props will require a pilot to react as you might expect. It is certainly possible that the initial left bank was due to a failure to apply enough (or any) right rudder. I don't know what actually happened, though.

My experience in working with pilots is that very few pilots fly airplanes like they are wearing it, by operating all the flight controls as extensions of their arms and legs. Being proactive on the flight controls is the instinctive reaction of appling hard right rudder along with the application of large amounts of power. It always takes a good bit of experence to become proactive and to start wearing an airplane. Usually, it is my experience that at 1000 hours in type a pilot is when that happens.

I would also guess that if the A/P was still engaged when the power was applied that it may not have been able to keep up with such a yaw.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

There are two caution lights associated with the airframe deice system: one that indicates a loss of deice pressure (with a backup gauge) and/or the failure of a boot set to fully inflate after the distributor valve opens or if a boot set remains inflated after the distributor valve closes. The second caution indicates a deice timer failure.

I guess we would have heard about whether or not there was any kind of failure in the system by now so I can only assume the boots were fully operatonal.

Could there have been any type of failure with the tail boot system that you can think of that would not be annunciated?

 

[Beech Balls]

why doesn't everyone just let this come out the way it'll come out instead of speculating....ya'll don't know so shut your traps. I'm not one to speculate anything anyhow about it.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

why doesn't everyone just let this come out the way it'll come out instead of speculating....ya'll don't know so shut your traps. I'm not one to speculate anything anyhow about it.

I know we all feel this way to an extent but its just in our pilot nature to speculate. I mean think about it...what else are we going to do? It takes time for the NTSB to give a final ruling so in the meantime we can just reflect/speculate/think/argue about this.

I always thought that the more information you receive the better off you are.

 

[IBNAV8R]

why doesn't everyone just let this come out the way it'll come out instead of speculating....ya'll don't know so shut your traps. I'm not one to speculate anything anyhow about it.

(directed at the idea and not the poster)

I suppose if I had your skill and luck, I wouldn't speculate or try to reason how I might avoid a similar accident either.

 

[firstthird]

the ntsb has done more speculating and putting out bad info than any anonymous poster on flightinfo. there is something to be said for letting the process work, but that line of argument has more application when the NTSB spokesman isn't diving for microphones and cameras every chance he gets, Chealander, I'm talking about you. although I did hear he is leaving the NTSB, not sure where he is headed though.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Does anyone have any idea when a preliminary report will come out on this accident?

 

[firstthird]

Normally that would be the kind of info that an NTSB spokesman would put out but this one seems too busy giving interviews about his fascinating time as a thunderbird, or whatever.

and to answer your question, no, usually it is a few months at least, I think, with final report a year or so if they have everything they think they need.

 

[Donsa320]

the ntsb has done more speculating and putting out bad info than any anonymous poster on flightinfo. there is something to be said for letting the process work, but that line of argument has more application when the NTSB spokesman isn't diving for microphones and cameras every chance he gets, Chealander, I'm talking about you. although I did hear he is leaving the NTSB, not sure where he is headed though.

He is going to Airbus Americas in MIA as a vice president. This from an announcement from the NTSB a few days ago. Hardly a secret to the thousands of us who subscribe to the NTSB releases.