Cockpit Napping Policy

[o2bflyn]

You probably do not live in the world of changing sleep cycles, where on your days off you are at home with your family on a night sleep schedule and your three days at work you are on a day sleep cycle. Those guys have to nap or they will die. The crew rest that will become industry standard will not prevent crews from operating outside of a schedule that allows them to properly rest. The rules have nothing to do with being rested. I flew scheduled 121 cargo, I knew my schedule a month in advance. Nightly run BLD-PIT-DAY-MEM-IAH in an L-188. I still flew exhausted. Start 0200 at DAY ended IAH 0900, out of IAH at 1900, into BLD 0600, out of BLD 2300. Then into IAH 0900 again, 6.5 hours of flight time, standup over night, not legal rest, but a duty break, out of IAH 1900. Drop add all night into BLD 0600, out of BLD 2300 repeat again into DAY 0200, release to go home and assume a sleep at night schedule for four days before going back to being up all night. I was always tried with a messed up sleep pattern, but I was 100% legal as approved by the FAR’s and my ALPA contract. I remember my first trip out of IOE, the CA looks at me and says "Why don't you get some shut eye on this leg” I answered, thinking he was trying to trick me "Oh no sir sleeping in cockpit is a violation of my duties to ensure a safe flying environment at all times". He looked down in his lap, shock his head and said "I hate you new guys, you really p!ss me off, I plan on sleeping on the next leg and I won't get any good rest if I am worried about you” I pretended to sleep, I was so excited about being an airline pilot, I couldn’t have slept unless I took drugs. However later it became standard practice and the only way to survive.

You assume way too much about me. I am very familiar with weird duty days/nights, min rest, standup over-nights and jumping time zones all at the same time. That kind of flying is not reserved for cargo and airpline types.

It is my personal belief that I should be awake and alert for my crew and passengers. You can say thats corny if you want, but I take my responsibilities very seriously.

Yes, I have flown with F/O and Capt that have taken naps. That is fine with me, that's your business. If you are that tired, by all means take a few minutes. I don't think any worse of people for doing it, I just don't do it myself.

 

[pilotyip]

better man than I

It is my personal belief that I should be awake and alert for my crew and passengers. You can say thats corny if you want, but I take my responsibilities very seriously.

you are a better man than any pilot I have flown with, they all loved their nappies.

 

[o2bflyn]

you are a better man than any pilot I have flown with, they all loved their nappies.

A very mature and witty retort.

I never said I was better or worse than anyone, so those are YOUR words. By your sarcastic logic, I am an inferior man for NOT taking "nappies" in the cockpit. a very interesting opinion on your part.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I don't think you should nap at all while flying. I don't fly a "long-haul" airplane per se, but I have done more than one 10+ hour flight day ( a few times over the pond). I know its gets some damn boring you don't know what to do, but you have to keep your head in the game.

I dont know....I have done quite a few crossings, 12+hr legs, 15+hr flight days and 18hr duty days....and have really never been THAT bored that I dont know what to do.

From what I have seen, discreetly reading the paper, playing with a crossword on and off, doing trip related paperwork, etc seems the norm.

I agree with ya, we should just do what it takes to keep one foot in the game. Get the F/A involved in the nap sequence, get up at least once an hour to stretch etc....

Also, from my experience, age of the flight crew must be taken into account on these max days. While not a 100% assumption, I have seen the 60+ crowd really have a hard time with the longer days and I never paired them together (or in 3's)

Either way, fatigue is a real issue that wont be going away as OEMs continue to push legs longer and longer.

 

[pilotyip]

nothing intented

A very mature and witty retort.

I never said I was better or worse than anyone, so those are YOUR words. By your sarcastic logic, I am an inferior man for NOT taking "nappies" in the cockpit. a very interesting opinion on your part.

there is no inferior in aviation, only good, better, and best. Kinda like the first beer after a trip, there is no bad first beer, same might be said about sex, but I won't go there.

 

[semperfido]

I dont know....I have done quite a few crossings, 12+hr legs, 15+hr flight days and 18hr duty days....and have really never been THAT bored that I dont know what to do.

From what I have seen, discreetly reading the paper, playing with a crossword on and off, doing trip related paperwork, etc seems the norm.

I agree with ya, we should just do what it takes to keep one foot in the game. Get the F/A involved in the nap sequence, get up at least once an hour to stretch etc....

Also, from my experience, age of the flight crew must be taken into account on these max days. While not a 100% assumption, I have seen the 60+ crowd really have a hard time with the longer days and I never paired them together (or in 3's)

Either way, fatigue is a real issue that wont be going away as OEMs continue to push legs longer and longer.

I say inject every pilot with Prostate enlarging growth hormones. That way they will have to pee every hour and won't have time to sleep.

 

[o2bflyn]

there is no inferior in aviation, only good, better, and best. Kinda like the first beer after a trip, there is no bad first beer, same might be said about sex, but I won't go there.

Can't argue with that. :beer:

 

[o2bflyn]

Also, from my experience, age of the flight crew must be taken into account on these max days. While not a 100% assumption, I have seen the 60+ crowd really have a hard time with the longer days and I never paired them together (or in 3's)

I have seen 30-somethings that have had problems with a 2 hour trip, so age is a mute point on this issue.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I have seen 30-somethings that have had problems with a 2 hour trip, so age is a mute point on this issue.

Oh I have also...but its not a mute point.

Among many things, age is certainly a factor when it comes to fatigue.

Also, if you honestly have someone who has trouble with a 2 hour trip, that person should not be flying!

 

[pilotgolfer]

moot = irrelevant
mute = something else