Cockpit Napping Policy

[semperfido]

The F/A also lets the cockpit know when she wants to nap.

You let them nap too? We let our slump over in the Fwd Lav as the Crew Rest is always occupied. :erm:

 

[ruhroa]

if one pilot naps in cruise,the flight attendant is required to sit in the jumpseat......................

 

[sleepy]

if one pilot naps in cruise,the flight attendant is required to sit in the jumpseat......................

Thank you! This is what we are considering doing.

 

[pilotyip]

Mirco Naps

FAA did study in the late 80's early 90's and recommend controlled sleeping in the cockpit was the best way to combat fatigue. They studied the occurrence of micro naps, these are naps that you have no control over, and you just nod off. On crews studied who did not have controlled sleeping in the cockpit there were 147 occurrences of micro nap, a number of them during the approach phase. On the crews at foreign airlines that allowed sleeping in the cockpit, there were no occurrences of micro naps during the approach phase. The FAA recommended that controlled napping in the cockpit be adopted as US policy, however Gov’t officials felt that official recognition of sleeping on the job was un-American. Story of a mirco-nap. When you fly shifting schedules, you have to plan sleeping otherwise it is uncontrollable. Having one guy rest his eyes for 20 minutes, when other one knows it is going on does wonders for your ability to make that tight approach at the end of the night. However when everyone in the cockpit is asleep, that is scary. We used to fly these night and day patrols around Vietnam, terrible schedule, 12 hr flights, fly a day flight 12 hours off fly a night flight, 24 hrs off fly a day flight. 10 days in a row. One night off the south end of the country, at 0300, nothing is going on, no contacts, no chatter on the intercom, I am fighting off sleep and loosing, a mirco-nap hits and I nod off. I wake up, you do not know if it has been 30 seconds or 30 minutes, we are on the autopilot' at 1,500’, #1 engine in the bag to save fuel, and all 10 of the crew is asleep. Talk about being wide-awake, Where the are we? Now how do you wake up the PPC without letting him know you nodded off also? The F/E was also in the bag. So I called for "Coffee around for my friends" The point is the worse thing about sleeping in the cockpit is letting it sneak up on you, You know it might happen, plan on when it is going to happen, control it.

 

[wildbill]

Over water or long haul flights, it might be suggested that you take a small alarm clock. Set the clock for about an hour. Doing Hawaii it was a standard thing to do. If one of us dozed off the alarm was there to make sure position reports were called in. Of course the selcal volume was turned up just in case.

 

[freighthumper]

Over water or long haul flights, it might be suggested that you take a small alarm clock. Set the clock for about an hour. Doing Hawaii it was a standard thing to do. If one of us dozed off the alarm was there to make sure position reports were called in. Of course the selcal volume was turned up just in case.

I know a guy that did the alarm clock trick while flying singe pilot in a caravan. Once he was so tired it didnt wake him up and he flew on for an hour before he woke up. So what did he do?? He bought a LOUDER alarm called the screamin meemie. Then the battery died and he flew to Canada before he woke up. Still didnt get fired. Its rumored that he isnt flying anymore..I hope for all of our sake.

 

[solpilot]

freighthumper,

I'm pretty sure he's still flying...for NWA

 

[stupidpilot]

I knew of one guy who used to nap single pilot in C401's. He'd turn on one aux tank, wait about two min, turn on the other aux tank, and then close his eyes. When the first aux tank ran dry and the engine started sputtering, he would wake up, go back to the mains, and continue the flight. I'm pretty sure the guy was a little nuts!

 

[o2bflyn]

I don't think you should nap at all while flying. I don't fly a "long-haul" airplane per se, but I have done more than one 10+ hour flight day ( a few times over the pond). I know its gets some damn boring you don't know what to do, but you have to keep your head in the game.

I think this is especially true in the corporate world where your CEO or whomever can just decide they want to stop by and say hi. Part of being a professional is preparing yourself for the flight. If its long enough that you need to supplement the crew, do so. You can take a nap just as well in the back than in the front, and you wont go cruising past destination, reporting points, or wake up in a T-storm.

my 2 cents.

 

[pilotyip]

different world

I don't think you should nap at all while flying. I don't fly a "long-haul" airplane per se, but I have done more than one 10+ hour flight day ( a few times over the pond). I know its gets some damn boring you don't know what to do, but you have to keep your head in the game.

I think this is especially true in the corporate world where your CEO or whomever can just decide they want to stop by and say hi. Part of being a professional is preparing yourself for the flight. If its long enough that you need to supplement the crew, do so. You can take a nap just as well in the back than in the front, and you wont go cruising past destination, reporting points, or wake up in a T-storm.

my 2 cents.

You probably do not live in the world of changing sleep cycles, where on your days off you are at home with your family on a night sleep schedule and your three days at work you are on a day sleep cycle. Those guys have to nap or they will die. The crew rest that will become industry standard will not prevent crews from operating outside of a schedule that allows them to properly rest. The rules have nothing to do with being rested. I flew scheduled 121 cargo, I knew my schedule a month in advance. Nightly run BLD-PIT-DAY-MEM-IAH in an L-188. I still flew exhausted. Start 0200 at DAY ended IAH 0900, out of IAH at 1900, into BLD 0600, out of BLD 2300. Then into IAH 0900 again, 6.5 hours of flight time, standup over night, not legal rest, but a duty break, out of IAH 1900. Drop add all night into BLD 0600, out of BLD 2300 repeat again into DAY 0200, release to go home and assume a sleep at night schedule for four days before going back to being up all night. I was always tried with a messed up sleep pattern, but I was 100% legal as approved by the FAR’s and my ALPA contract. I remember my first trip out of IOE, the CA looks at me and says "Why don't you get some shut eye on this leg” I answered, thinking he was trying to trick me "Oh no sir sleeping in cockpit is a violation of my duties to ensure a safe flying environment at all times". He looked down in his lap, shock his head and said "I hate you new guys, you really p!ss me off, I plan on sleeping on the next leg and I won't get any good rest if I am worried about you” I pretended to sleep, I was so excited about being an airline pilot, I couldn’t have slept unless I took drugs. However later it became standard practice and the only way to survive.

 

[o2bflyn]

You probably do not live in the world of changing sleep cycles, where on your days off you are at home with your family on a night sleep schedule and your three days at work you are on a day sleep cycle. Those guys have to nap or they will die. The crew rest that will become industry standard will not prevent crews from operating outside of a schedule that allows them to properly rest. The rules have nothing to do with being rested. I flew scheduled 121 cargo, I knew my schedule a month in advance. Nightly run BLD-PIT-DAY-MEM-IAH in an L-188. I still flew exhausted. Start 0200 at DAY ended IAH 0900, out of IAH at 1900, into BLD 0600, out of BLD 2300. Then into IAH 0900 again, 6.5 hours of flight time, standup over night, not legal rest, but a duty break, out of IAH 1900. Drop add all night into BLD 0600, out of BLD 2300 repeat again into DAY 0200, release to go home and assume a sleep at night schedule for four days before going back to being up all night. I was always tried with a messed up sleep pattern, but I was 100% legal as approved by the FAR’s and my ALPA contract. I remember my first trip out of IOE, the CA looks at me and says "Why don't you get some shut eye on this leg” I answered, thinking he was trying to trick me "Oh no sir sleeping in cockpit is a violation of my duties to ensure a safe flying environment at all times". He looked down in his lap, shock his head and said "I hate you new guys, you really p!ss me off, I plan on sleeping on the next leg and I won't get any good rest if I am worried about you” I pretended to sleep, I was so excited about being an airline pilot, I couldn’t have slept unless I took drugs. However later it became standard practice and the only way to survive.

You assume way too much about me. I am very familiar with weird duty days/nights, min rest, standup over-nights and jumping time zones all at the same time. That kind of flying is not reserved for cargo and airpline types.

It is my personal belief that I should be awake and alert for my crew and passengers. You can say thats corny if you want, but I take my responsibilities very seriously.

Yes, I have flown with F/O and Capt that have taken naps. That is fine with me, that's your business. If you are that tired, by all means take a few minutes. I don't think any worse of people for doing it, I just don't do it myself.

 

[pilotyip]

better man than I

It is my personal belief that I should be awake and alert for my crew and passengers. You can say thats corny if you want, but I take my responsibilities very seriously.

you are a better man than any pilot I have flown with, they all loved their nappies.

 

[o2bflyn]

you are a better man than any pilot I have flown with, they all loved their nappies.

A very mature and witty retort.

I never said I was better or worse than anyone, so those are YOUR words. By your sarcastic logic, I am an inferior man for NOT taking "nappies" in the cockpit. a very interesting opinion on your part.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I don't think you should nap at all while flying. I don't fly a "long-haul" airplane per se, but I have done more than one 10+ hour flight day ( a few times over the pond). I know its gets some damn boring you don't know what to do, but you have to keep your head in the game.

I dont know....I have done quite a few crossings, 12+hr legs, 15+hr flight days and 18hr duty days....and have really never been THAT bored that I dont know what to do.

From what I have seen, discreetly reading the paper, playing with a crossword on and off, doing trip related paperwork, etc seems the norm.

I agree with ya, we should just do what it takes to keep one foot in the game. Get the F/A involved in the nap sequence, get up at least once an hour to stretch etc....

Also, from my experience, age of the flight crew must be taken into account on these max days. While not a 100% assumption, I have seen the 60+ crowd really have a hard time with the longer days and I never paired them together (or in 3's)

Either way, fatigue is a real issue that wont be going away as OEMs continue to push legs longer and longer.

 

[pilotyip]

nothing intented

A very mature and witty retort.

I never said I was better or worse than anyone, so those are YOUR words. By your sarcastic logic, I am an inferior man for NOT taking "nappies" in the cockpit. a very interesting opinion on your part.

there is no inferior in aviation, only good, better, and best. Kinda like the first beer after a trip, there is no bad first beer, same might be said about sex, but I won't go there.

 

[semperfido]

I dont know....I have done quite a few crossings, 12+hr legs, 15+hr flight days and 18hr duty days....and have really never been THAT bored that I dont know what to do.

From what I have seen, discreetly reading the paper, playing with a crossword on and off, doing trip related paperwork, etc seems the norm.

I agree with ya, we should just do what it takes to keep one foot in the game. Get the F/A involved in the nap sequence, get up at least once an hour to stretch etc....

Also, from my experience, age of the flight crew must be taken into account on these max days. While not a 100% assumption, I have seen the 60+ crowd really have a hard time with the longer days and I never paired them together (or in 3's)

Either way, fatigue is a real issue that wont be going away as OEMs continue to push legs longer and longer.

I say inject every pilot with Prostate enlarging growth hormones. That way they will have to pee every hour and won't have time to sleep.

 

[o2bflyn]

there is no inferior in aviation, only good, better, and best. Kinda like the first beer after a trip, there is no bad first beer, same might be said about sex, but I won't go there.

Can't argue with that. :beer:

 

[o2bflyn]

Also, from my experience, age of the flight crew must be taken into account on these max days. While not a 100% assumption, I have seen the 60+ crowd really have a hard time with the longer days and I never paired them together (or in 3's)

I have seen 30-somethings that have had problems with a 2 hour trip, so age is a mute point on this issue.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I have seen 30-somethings that have had problems with a 2 hour trip, so age is a mute point on this issue.

Oh I have also...but its not a mute point.

Among many things, age is certainly a factor when it comes to fatigue.

Also, if you honestly have someone who has trouble with a 2 hour trip, that person should not be flying!

 

[pilotgolfer]

moot = irrelevant
mute = something else