CO and unions make a deal with options...

[NEDude]

- When hiring, preferential interview to pilots of Express Carriers.

I noticed the plural in "Express Carriers". Does this mean all of the Contiental Express/Connection carriers (ie. not just ExpressJet)?

 

[Double Shot]

I wonder how the SCABS will vote...

 

[General Lee]

I wonder how the SCABS will vote...

I bet "YES"??? Where else would they go?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

Exactly. No furlough provisions in a contract mean nothing, IMO.

hmm, then why would management fight them? Ask Delta how much the no furlough clause is about to cost them in back pay. A no furlough clause may not be perfect, but I would rather them have to fight to get around it than not have one at all. DALPA sucks.

 

[MedFlyer]

Have to say, I am impressed you got improvements in scope and furlough protection. Are you paying attention DALPA????

DALPA waited too long to negotiate seriously. If DALPA had sat down and made a real effort back in '03, they would have had more leverage. By waiting until DL was on the edge of BK, DALPA was forced into crisis bargaining.

These CAL concessions suck, but the CAL pilots will fair better if they don't wait until CAL is on the court's door steps.

 

[michael707767]

DALPA waited too long to negotiate seriously. If DALPA had sat down and made a real effort back in '03, they would have had more leverage. By waiting until DL was on the edge of BK, DALPA was forced into crisis bargaining.

I agree. But even on the steps of the BK court, I would not have given up scope.

 

[SuperFLUF]

Its a tricky spot for CAL pilots.

If the TA makes it out of the MEC and then is rejected on Mar 31, then its a month of polling and coming up with new ideas and proposals. Then the negotiations start, all while burning cash. As the cash on hand gets lower the proposed business plan becomes more risky. Mgmt has to fill its fiduciary responsibility to the stockholders and manage for cash conservation not expand for revenue increases in the face of min cash levels. It could get quite close to the BK court steps and by then its too late. It'll go even longer if there are recalls of MEC officers or the replacment of the negotiating comittee.
How lucky do you feel?

The best way to reject this deal is at the MEC level. Get right back to negotiations a month sooner and while everything is fresh.
If there are things that you absolutely under no circumstances will not accept in this TA then call and email your reps and let them know. YESTERDAY! Encourage everyone who feels the same to do the same.

That's the only way this thing will get back to negotiations early. If it makes it out of the MEC on Friday for membership ratification then we're hosed. The scabs and the soon to retire will not gamble on BK or a lesser deal. No matter how pissed off they are at cutting our allready crappy contract. Remember that DALALPA ended up accepting less $$$$ on the second offer. It could easily happen at CAL too. The longer it takes to get an acceptable deal the bigger the gamble.

 

[nimtz]

I noticed the plural in "Express Carriers". Does this mean all of the Contiental Express/Connection carriers (ie. not just ExpressJet)?

Does it say "Connection" or "Express" on the side of your airplane? For the record zero details have been released on this and I wouldn't be suprised if CAL skirted this clause.

BTW, what's with the change in deadhead rules? Weak to take 50% pay for company ineffiency...

 

[NEDude]

Does it say "Connection" or "Express" on the side of your airplane? For the record zero details have been released on this and I wouldn't be suprised if CAL skirted this clause.

I'll wait for someone who is a Continental pilot for some insight on this issue. Thank you very much.

 

[nimtz]

I'll wait for someone who is a Continental pilot for some insight on this issue. Thank you very much.

And he/she will have as much insight as I do, ie NO DETAILS RELEASED. Maybe the focus should be on the concessionary TA, not a Beech guy with an hard-on to get out of it. Have a pleasent day.

 

[NEDude]

Have a pleasent day.

Thank you, I will.

 

[Freight Dog]

The single biggest mistake ALPA has ever made in history is agree to any pay cuts. It became too easy to pin labor for any and all blunders in our industry.
Everybody is deathly afraid of a furlough, so we're pissing away all the gains we got over decades of negotiations, strikes, etc. all to either have a chance to expand or keep our jobs. The message is if you cannot successfully manage an airline without paycuts, you won't be able to manage it with pay cuts. Case in point - EVERY U.S. major airline with few exceptions like SWA, JB, Airtran.

Basically, give the airline three choices:

1) Do your f-ing job and run this business like a business and not like a f-ing charity.

2) Go through Chapter 11 and get the court involved. But make the judge impose the cuts.

3) Shut it down.

We've all proven that good-will on labor's behalf doesn't do diddly to really help the airlines. All it does is allow management to hide their mistakes and their inability to run a successful business.

Gas prices went through the roof, but do you see less traffic congestion on our freeways? I don't. Do you see new car, or new SUV sales declining? Nope. People may b*tch about prices, but they still pay them. Why? The gas pumps pass their costs onto the consumer. Same goes with ANY NORMAL business - pass the costs on to the consumer. What do the airlines do? Pass the increased costs to labor, and we like idiots accept them.

The airlines can't afford to subsidize the population who can't afford to fly in general. As such, we need to stop allowing them to keep doing this...

 

[Boeingman]

Freight Dog's post should be required reading in Herndon. I am not holding my breath though. Those boys just keep slipping further and further from reality. I encourage everyone to fill out the ALPA survey and let them know how you feel.

I am not making any comments about the contract until I read the whole TA. Nimitz is correct no details released. So far, from the bullet points I am not impressed...and I am being generous with that term.

As far as scabs voting yes on it, I flew with 3 in the last few days and they said "no way". Really people save your breath. The emotions from what I have seen have varied greatly no matter where one is on the seniority list.

Double shot.....(M.C.). ......I would assume you should have better things to worry yourself with now that you left CO.

 

[sweptback]

Not that I disagree with you, but...

Do you see new car, or new SUV sales declining? Nope. People may b*tch about prices, but they still pay them.

New SUV sales sure are declining. Excursion sales are off almost 25%, and the large truck models are down a similar amount. But still, people still seem eager to fill up the ones they have...

 

[Angus]

As far as scabs voting yes on it, I flew with 3 in the last few days and they said "no way". Really people save your breath.

You consider yourself 3 people? "I guess you if you say "Me, Myself, and I"... that counts as three.

You should practice what you preach... and save YOUR breath, or else let other people speak their minds....

 

[Boeingman]

You consider yourself 3 people? "I guess you if you say "Me, Myself, and I"... that counts as three.

You should practice what you preach... and save YOUR breath, or else let other people speak their minds....

I see you have crawled back out from under your rock. Other than that I have no idea what your drug induced mind is concocting now.

BTW moron, my ALPA pin has a star on it. So you can take your inuendo and stick right where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[Boeingman]

...........

 

[Angus]

So upset you had to post twice I see..... congratulations. How about addressing my post... rather than me??

 

[Boeingman]

So upset you had to post twice I see..... congratulations. How about addressing my post... rather than me??

Ah, no..the computer froze. I am sorry your lordship that this occured. I will also ask permission prior to posting any other relevant info. Relevant, now there is a term applicable to you. From the fact that you never post anything relevant.

Also, I did address your post, you're just to much of an a$$hole to understand.

Were you sexually abused as a child?

 

[Angus]

Ah, no..the computer froze. I am sorry your lordship that this occured. I will also ask permission prior to posting any other relevant info. Relevant, now there is a term applicable to you. From the fact that you never post anything relevant.

Also, I did address your post, you're just to much of an a$$hole to understand.

Were you sexually abused as a child?

That is a totally outrageous question... Why in the world would you ask such a litigious thing?

That out of bounds question you asked me now makes me wonder :"Are you a parent who sexually abuses children?"