CNN reporting NWA to cut 2500 jobs

[Redmeat]

I think that if the DC-9 is anything it is that its paid for. It is the underbrush of aviation.

The DC9 is a simple machine, it is reliable, it is crude, it is fun to fly if you are a decent pilot once you master it, it is easy to maintain and it gets the job done.

It has also PAID FOR ITSELF (over and over again) at NWA.

The part I enjoy most about it is...YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO have some stick and rudder skills and use the lost art of pilotage to do a good job flying it.

Spikey hair's beware.

 

[Diesel-9]

And passengers prefer the -9 by a longshot vs. the 50 seater and most of the 76 seaters.

 

[Fly4hire]

The DC-9 better than an RJ? You have got to be SH***ing me! Do pilots ever live in any world other than 50 years in the past?

Yup, regular NB cabin, reliable, real overhead bin space, 3 full size lav's, rarely weight restricted, and an airline managed and flown by adults, not teenagers.

I wish I had a buck for how many times I've heard at some of our smaller stations "thank God it's not one of those little jets".

I'll be the first one to admit the flight deck and automation on the CRJ is light years ahead of the DC9 - so what?

 

[sqwkvfr]

The part I enjoy most about it is...YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO have some stick and rudder skills and use the lost art of pilotage to do a good job flying it.

Spikey hair's beware.

While I agree with your sentiment that a lot of "spikey hairs" have zero stick and rudder skills, I can't help but think that most of them would know that "pilotage" has very little to do with flying a DC-9.

 

[Superpilot92]

While I agree with your sentiment that a lot of "spikey hairs" have zero stick and rudder skills, I can't help but think that most of them would know that "pilotage" has very little to do with flying a DC-9.

The DC9 requires more "pilotage" than any airliners flying today. There are guys at the regionals that have NEVER even flown an NDB approach. I cant tell you how many times i have guys in my crashpad that fly for regionals ask me "how do you guys fly that" or have had a jumpseater ask "wow i dont even know what to look at in here".

Simple truth is now a days there are more and more people at the regionals that have never really flown round dials. A lot of the flight schools today have switched to garmin 1000 glass cockpits all the way down to cessnas.

Disclaimer: thats not a hit on regional guys, i was merely pointing out that alot of the recent newhires at the regionals have very low time and some haven't flown anything but glass.

 

[cargoflyr69]

Yeah the good 'ol Diesel 9, Works good lasts a long time! My favorite transport category airplane so far.

On the 2500 job cuts...

On the pilot side I think we should be safe from furlough. If nobody brought it up yet, the Union cut a deal where they will lower the montly max from 88 hours to 80 hours. there is a caveat that on certain fleets they could go to 77 hours.

If you think about it, that alone is a 9% reduction that each pilot has to fly each month. If some fleets do go to 77 hrs, then we're over the overall 9.5% systemwide flight reductions this fall. Pretty cool concept, work less and everyone stays on property!

Furthermore the company has recinded all the October APA displacements (likely due to this LOA just signed)

Me thinks the company knows that if the joint CBA gets ratified, they will be short pilots on DCC which is supposed to be in Nov-Dec. They will be even more shorthanded if they furlough....

My .02

 

[Donsa320]

The DC9 requires more "pilotage" than any airliners flying today. There are guys at the regionals that have NEVER even flown an NDB approach. I cant tell you how many times i have guys in my crashpad that fly for regionals ask me "how do you guys fly that" or have had a jumpseater ask "wow i dont even know what to look at in here".

Simple truth is now a days there are more and more people at the regionals that have never really flown round dials. A lot of the flight schools today have switched to garmin 1000 glass cockpits all the way down to cessnas.

Disclaimer: thats not a hit on regional guys, i was merely pointing out that alot of the recent newhires at the regionals have very low time and some haven't flown anything but glass.

I think what that "pilotage" comment was about is that "pilotage" is a method of navigation. Other methods are "Deduced Reckoning" (D'ed Reckoning), "Celestial Navigation", "Radio Navigation", "Map Reading" etc. Stick and rudder skills are not "Pilotage" but surely can be lacking these days IMHO.
DC

 

[cargoflyr69]

I think what that "pilotage" comment was about is that "pilotage" is a method of navigation. Other methods are "Deduced Reckoning" (D'ed Reckoning), "Celestial Navigation", "Radio Navigation", "Map Reading" etc. Stick and rudder skills are not "Pilotage" but surely can be lacking these days IMHO.
DC

I'm thinking he meant both stick and rudder skills as well as pilotage.

We on the DC-9 fly on steam gague style HSI and RMI's for our only source of nav. Yes we do have the luxury of DME, but there is no groundspeed readout, moving map, FMS, VNAV or any other navigation comforts.

Therefore, we have to use the 2 onboard computers (pilots) to do things like figure our top of decent, crossing restrictions, ect. I'd say that fits the definition of "pilotage" wouldn't you?

As far as the stick and rudder comment. the autopilot is nothing more than a auto wing leveler that can also do constant rate climbs and decents. It is often times jerky and a good pilot can fly the plane more smoothly by hand flying!

 

[Bubba Dog]

OK,show your pilot age.

What does TVMDC mean when it comes to navigation?

 

[DashTrash400]

Ehhhh....pilotage, in its normal usage referring to navigation, means navigating solely by reference to landmarks & a map, without the benefit of radio navigation or even a list of wind-corrected headings to fly (deduced reckoning). Now, the DC9 is old, but it's still advanced enough to have a VOR head in it! Heck, even has HSI. That's all any decent pilot should need, in my book

/says the guy steadily losing all his "real pilot" skills in one of those lazy man's glass airplanes

 

[MJ42]

Ehhhh....pilotage, in its normal usage referring to navigation, means navigating solely by reference to landmarks & a map, without the benefit of radio navigation or even a list of wind-corrected headings to fly (deduced reckoning). Now, the DC9 is old, but it's still advanced enough to have a VOR head in it! Heck, even has HSI. That's all any decent pilot should need, in my book

/says the guy steadily losing all his "real pilot" skills in one of those lazy man's glass airplanes

Tell that to our dispatchers when EAU VOR was OTS a few weeks ago, but still filed us on the EAU arrival(legally...according to them???). CA said..."Fly to that town, that's EAU":nuts:

 

[Whine Lover]

Yeah, I don't think they will let any pilots go either....

Wednesday, July 9, 2008


07-09) 11:10 PDT MINNEAPOLIS (AP) --
Northwest Airlines Corp. is the latest airline to cut jobs because of high oil prices.
The carrier said Wednesday it will eliminate 2,500 management and front-line jobs.

It previously announced that it would shrink the amount of flying it does by roughly 9 percent later this year.

President and CEO Doug Steenland blames the cuts on fuel costs that have more than doubled in the past year.

Northwest says it will offer voluntary departures. It says furloughs will be used only if it does not get enough volunteersto reach the 2,500 number.


------------------------------------------------

1) "Front Line Jobs"....Thats YOU Mr. Pilot, and F/A, and CS Agent.

2) "Shrink the amount of FLYING"....I think that would mean they have LESS flying JOBS.

3) "Furloughs"....Desk people don't get "furloughed", Pilots and Flight Attendants DO.


Are you folks enjoying your river trip?

I hear De Nile is wonderful this time of year....


YKMKR

 

[MJ42]

Yeah, I don't think they will let any pilots go either....

Wednesday, July 9, 2008


07-09) 11:10 PDT MINNEAPOLIS (AP) --
Northwest Airlines Corp. is the latest airline to cut jobs because of high oil prices.
The carrier said Wednesday it will eliminate 2,500 management and front-line jobs. It previously announced that it would shrink the amount of flying it does by roughly 9 percent later this year.

President and CEO Doug Steenland blames the cuts on fuel costs that have more than doubled in the past year.

Northwest says it will offer voluntary departures. It says furloughs will be used only if it does not get enough volunteers to reach the 2,500 number......


------------------------------------------------

1) "Front Line Jobs"....Thats YOU Mr. Pilot, and F/A, and CS Agent.

2) "Furloughs"....Desk people don't get "furloughed", Pilots and Flight Attendants DO.

3) "Shrink the amount of FLYING"....I think that would mean they have LESS flying JOBS.

Are you folks enjoying your river trip?

I hear De Nile is wonderful this time of year....


YKMKR

You're an idiot! We all know what front line employees are, but our MEC has negotiated a LOA to protect us. I'm not dumb enough to think it will stop furloughs, but it sure will help!

1) Lower monthly max
2) Monthly leaves...lots of guys(especially bus) are flying 85 to 90 hrs/month who would love to get time off.
3) Partial mont leaves...see #2
4) Attractive Early out program. Big incentive to keep NWA lower insurance premiums for retirees.
5) Any furloughed NWA would have to be retrained at Compass. By the time these retrained pilots would hit the line, DAL would need these pilots(on the DAL side). Very costly to furlough then recall shortly there after!

 

[scarlet]

Yeah they are going to keep 12,000 pilots and over 1200 aircraft including all the regionals=NOT

And they going to keep MEM and CVG open=NOT

DL just trying to lay low until the merger is approved by DOJ....

Prepare now, save money for your family !!! Don;t get caught !!

 

[Schwanker]

Yeah, I don't think they will let any pilots go either....

Wednesday, July 9, 2008


07-09) 11:10 PDT MINNEAPOLIS (AP) --
Northwest Airlines Corp. is the latest airline to cut jobs because of high oil prices.
The carrier said Wednesday it will eliminate 2,500 management and front-line jobs.

It previously announced that it would shrink the amount of flying it does by roughly 9 percent later this year.

President and CEO Doug Steenland blames the cuts on fuel costs that have more than doubled in the past year.

Northwest says it will offer voluntary departures. It says furloughs will be used only if it does not get enough volunteersto reach the 2,500 number.


------------------------------------------------

1) "Front Line Jobs"....Thats YOU Mr. Pilot, and F/A, and CS Agent.

2) "Shrink the amount of FLYING"....I think that would mean they have LESS flying JOBS.

3) "Furloughs"....Desk people don't get "furloughed", Pilots and Flight Attendants DO.


Are you folks enjoying your river trip?

I hear De Nile is wonderful this time of year....


YKMKR

A paragraph from yesterday's ALPA hotline:

NWA Announces Voluntary Staffing Reductions
Northwest Airlines today announced it will reduce its frontline and management employees by 2,500 as a result of capacity reductions taken to address the unprecedented run-up in oil prices. The reductions will be first achieved through a variety of voluntary programs including early-out programs, voluntary leaves, work rule modifications and attrition. Furloughs will be employed only if voluntary means fail to achieve the targeted reductions. The NWA Negotiating committee previously negotiated Letter of Agreement (LOA) 08-46 Layoff Protection Package which addresses pilot reductions by implementing early retirements, leaves and hourly reductions without the need for furloughs.


Thanks for trying to stir it up--
Schwanker