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CNBC reports breakup of United Airlines
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RightBettor
Betting "Don't" these day
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Statement by UAL-MEC Chairman
Press Release Source: Air Line Pilots Association
Statement by UAL-MEC Chairman Captain Paul Whiteford in Anticipation of United's Proposed Business Plan
Wednesday January 29, 3:36 pm ET
ROSEMONT, Ill.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 29, 2003--Captain Paul Whiteford, Chairman of the United Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association, International, issued the following statement in anticipation of United Airlines' proposed strategic plan:
"For more than a year, the pilots of United Airlines have worked tirelessly to develop a long term economic solution to the crisis at the Company. From January through December of 2002, ALPA was fully engaged in a highly collaborative discussion with the Company and other union groups over a program for constructive and significant change at the airline."
"Since the Company filed for bankruptcy protection in December, the United pilots have repeatedly offered to continue that collaborative process, to provide the Company with both a competitive labor cost structure and the tools needed to address low cost carriers in the industry. These are not just words: we have voluntarily cut our pay by 29% to stabilize the Company in the early weeks of the bankruptcy."
"Inexplicably, in the seven weeks since United filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, senior management has locked the pilots out of the process and refused to engage in any meaningful negotiations over our future. Instead, they appear to be proposing a plan to break-up United Airlines by giving United routes, aircraft, and other assets to another company - with a whole set of new managers and employees. If so, United's management is now telling us to give up on United Airlines as we know it."
"We know that United has suffered stunning losses over the past two years and we agree that United must undergo a bold restructuring to become profitable and competitive. The United pilots are prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to make our Company competitive and profitable in every market we serve, including the markets served by low cost carriers."
"But we refuse to give up on United Airlines. We will not let management break up the strongest asset base and route network in the airline industry. And we will not help management destroy the careers of the dedicated working men and women who built this Company, who saw it through September 11th, and who continue to deliver the highest levels of performance and service through the worst crisis in industry history. We will oppose management's break-up plan by every lawful means available to us."
"In 2000, this same group of managers told us that a merger with US Airways and a new corporate jet business would provide a magic cure for United. They were wrong then. They are wrong now. There is no magic cure for United or any other airline. Instead, a vibrant, successful United can only emerge from hard work, collaboration, shared sacrifice and a collective vision for the future. We are ready to roll up our sleeves and get to work. We call on Glenn Tilton and his management team to join us."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Press Release Source: Air Line Pilots Association
Statement by UAL-MEC Chairman Captain Paul Whiteford in Anticipation of United's Proposed Business Plan
Wednesday January 29, 3:36 pm ET
ROSEMONT, Ill.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 29, 2003--Captain Paul Whiteford, Chairman of the United Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association, International, issued the following statement in anticipation of United Airlines' proposed strategic plan:
"For more than a year, the pilots of United Airlines have worked tirelessly to develop a long term economic solution to the crisis at the Company. From January through December of 2002, ALPA was fully engaged in a highly collaborative discussion with the Company and other union groups over a program for constructive and significant change at the airline."
"Since the Company filed for bankruptcy protection in December, the United pilots have repeatedly offered to continue that collaborative process, to provide the Company with both a competitive labor cost structure and the tools needed to address low cost carriers in the industry. These are not just words: we have voluntarily cut our pay by 29% to stabilize the Company in the early weeks of the bankruptcy."
"Inexplicably, in the seven weeks since United filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, senior management has locked the pilots out of the process and refused to engage in any meaningful negotiations over our future. Instead, they appear to be proposing a plan to break-up United Airlines by giving United routes, aircraft, and other assets to another company - with a whole set of new managers and employees. If so, United's management is now telling us to give up on United Airlines as we know it."
"We know that United has suffered stunning losses over the past two years and we agree that United must undergo a bold restructuring to become profitable and competitive. The United pilots are prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to make our Company competitive and profitable in every market we serve, including the markets served by low cost carriers."
"But we refuse to give up on United Airlines. We will not let management break up the strongest asset base and route network in the airline industry. And we will not help management destroy the careers of the dedicated working men and women who built this Company, who saw it through September 11th, and who continue to deliver the highest levels of performance and service through the worst crisis in industry history. We will oppose management's break-up plan by every lawful means available to us."
"In 2000, this same group of managers told us that a merger with US Airways and a new corporate jet business would provide a magic cure for United. They were wrong then. They are wrong now. There is no magic cure for United or any other airline. Instead, a vibrant, successful United can only emerge from hard work, collaboration, shared sacrifice and a collective vision for the future. We are ready to roll up our sleeves and get to work. We call on Glenn Tilton and his management team to join us."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RJones
Rico SWAFO
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2001
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- 374
United has no interest in dealing with the pilots, that's clear -- it views the pilots as a source of its problems (not the millions spent on the USAir deal and Avolar, and more millions spent on worthless managers).Ê It probably wants to get rid of IAM and all the flight attendants too.Ê The parts are worth more than the whole -- it's going the way of Pan Am.Ê No lessons whatsoever learned from Lockerbie.
RJ
RJ
atpcliff
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 4,260
Hi!
Rumour control:
I heard from 2 (not related) NWA employees, that the rumour going around NWA is that they will get some UAL planes and routes in Mar when UAL cuts their schedule down in Mar. They said they were trans-Pacific routes, which fits in well with NWA's structure.
Today, my wife told me UAL is furloughing 25% of their pilots (I'm not sure when), which would be about 2100+ according to the report she read. They were flying only about 26? hrs./mo. average, and UAL wanted it above 50.
Cliff
GRB
PS-God bless to all of the UAL furloughees.
Rumour control:
I heard from 2 (not related) NWA employees, that the rumour going around NWA is that they will get some UAL planes and routes in Mar when UAL cuts their schedule down in Mar. They said they were trans-Pacific routes, which fits in well with NWA's structure.
Today, my wife told me UAL is furloughing 25% of their pilots (I'm not sure when), which would be about 2100+ according to the report she read. They were flying only about 26? hrs./mo. average, and UAL wanted it above 50.
Cliff
GRB
PS-God bless to all of the UAL furloughees.
banned username 2
Banned User
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- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 3,254
atpcliff said:
I read an article that UAL plans to get down to about 6,000 pilots...
I think the 25% furloughs that they quoted are from their current pilot roster (8,200 or so, I think) subtract 25% from that number and you end up with around 6,000....
I don't think the 25% figure included current furloughs (because technically they are no longer employed by UAL)...
I am not sure, and this is all merely speculation from the couple articles I have read....
Good luck to all the affected employees and their families!
General Lee
Well-known member
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- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
This really would be sad for all parties involved at United. A lot of families will be affected for sure.
As far as the routes are concerned, I wouldn't be so sure that Northwest would get the Asian routes. That would be a true monopoly. Other airlines would have to have a chance to bid first for the DOT (Which doesn't like NW/DL/CO codeshare anyways...) to approve. American is sinking fast without a plan against the LCC's, and their stock just hit their all time low. Conintental has absolutley no borrowing power. They just got a "spare lightbulb loan" of $200 million by mortgaging all of their spare parts. The only thing they have left is about $340million worth of Expressjet stock. Delta on the otherhand has borrowing power. Michele Burns, the CFO, stated that they were interested in some of the routes if they were to become available. Delta pulled out of Asia from Portland because they had no feed. I am sure they would change that. And remember, some of the routes in the Pacific are not to Asia---some include Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland etc. You can't give Quantas 100% of the market. Who knows what will happen?
Bye Bye---General Lee
As far as the routes are concerned, I wouldn't be so sure that Northwest would get the Asian routes. That would be a true monopoly. Other airlines would have to have a chance to bid first for the DOT (Which doesn't like NW/DL/CO codeshare anyways...) to approve. American is sinking fast without a plan against the LCC's, and their stock just hit their all time low. Conintental has absolutley no borrowing power. They just got a "spare lightbulb loan" of $200 million by mortgaging all of their spare parts. The only thing they have left is about $340million worth of Expressjet stock. Delta on the otherhand has borrowing power. Michele Burns, the CFO, stated that they were interested in some of the routes if they were to become available. Delta pulled out of Asia from Portland because they had no feed. I am sure they would change that. And remember, some of the routes in the Pacific are not to Asia---some include Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland etc. You can't give Quantas 100% of the market. Who knows what will happen?
Bye Bye---General Lee
embdrvr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
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- 430
Sounds like they are working towards the goal of becoming a virtual airline. Spin off most of domestic to a new low cost B or make that D scale list. Keep some of the lucrative international routes with the heavies but unload some to generate cash. Farm out a bunch of flying to regional affiliates.
Depressing. I hope they don't get away with it but I suspect they will. I'm sure noone in DC will stand up for the workers.
Depressing. I hope they don't get away with it but I suspect they will. I'm sure noone in DC will stand up for the workers.
banned username 1
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- Nov 29, 2001
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- 412
While I don't like the sound of it, we'll have to wait until we see the entire business plan. I doubt whether they will monkey too much with the international divisions. They received 37% of their revenue from those routes last year. Yes, I'm going to guess that International stays, a smaller Mainline serving business centers and feed to International emerges, the LCC is born to compete for customers that have set the bar as to what they are willing to endure and what they will pay.
I will pay my ALPA dues and let them have at it in the manner that they see fit, but ultimately, the BK judge will do what he thinks will allow the Co. to emerge- in whatever form it must take.
I feel for all of those employees that will ultimately be effected the most by this. Sadly too, others are only months behind UAL and will have their own manifestations of these changes within their companies.
We all think that this is terrible for the industry- and it is, but this is but one of many industrial upheavals throughout recent history; and you're going to see many others- occuring at a more rapid rate in the near future.
UAL78
I will pay my ALPA dues and let them have at it in the manner that they see fit, but ultimately, the BK judge will do what he thinks will allow the Co. to emerge- in whatever form it must take.
I feel for all of those employees that will ultimately be effected the most by this. Sadly too, others are only months behind UAL and will have their own manifestations of these changes within their companies.
We all think that this is terrible for the industry- and it is, but this is but one of many industrial upheavals throughout recent history; and you're going to see many others- occuring at a more rapid rate in the near future.
UAL78
FL510GV
Junior Birdman
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- Dec 6, 2001
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DIA, United, Frontier and Alaska
Heard an interesting rumor that as soon as UAL cuts back significantly (a foregone conclusion?) at DIA, Alaska wants Frontier for a Denver presence.
Sounds pretty far fetched.
Alaska is very conservative and Frontier isn't exactly making a mint.
Any thoughts?
Heard an interesting rumor that as soon as UAL cuts back significantly (a foregone conclusion?) at DIA, Alaska wants Frontier for a Denver presence.
Sounds pretty far fetched.
Alaska is very conservative and Frontier isn't exactly making a mint.
Any thoughts?
General Lee
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- Aug 24, 2002
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RJCAP,
What affect will a leaner United have on DAL and AA? Not much. Fares are all ready at an all time low. Delta and AA hedge more fuel than United and USAir, and if this Iraq thing blows up, United and USAir may go bye bye. AA is already hurting because they do not have a plan against the LCC's. Their stock is at an all time low. Only Delta seems to have a plan, even with a bad name, that can compete with Jetblue. USAToday said Delta was an "analyst favorite" because it had only one union, flexibility with RJs, and cash ($2.6 bil) and reserves ($5Bil to mortgage) to ride this out. Even with a dopey name like Song, the product will win out because of "choice." Song gives more choices than Jetblue----more airports (all 3 big NYC airports), better entertainment systems---live TV (Direct TV), ability to choose your own song list and listen to 12 songs of YOUR choosing down the east coast, in Oct you will have Email access, and there will be video games you can play against the guy next to you. You have the option to buy food---which better be tasty if you have to buy it. There will be extra space in the seats, and self serve kiosks to check in. And, to top it off, the 757's will be lime green---which will be easy to spot at the airport. Now I know Jetblue has done very well. They are good at what they do. But, Song will take business away from them. And, to top it off Song offers low fares and a frequent flyer program that can get you free tickets to Rio (on CAL), Singapore (on NW), or Athens on Delta. On Jetblue, you might be able to get a free ride to San Juan on a Tuesday, because all of the other flights are already full. Delta has thought this out, and even with the funky name, it will cut into Jetblue. That's competition!
Bye Bye---General Lee
What affect will a leaner United have on DAL and AA? Not much. Fares are all ready at an all time low. Delta and AA hedge more fuel than United and USAir, and if this Iraq thing blows up, United and USAir may go bye bye. AA is already hurting because they do not have a plan against the LCC's. Their stock is at an all time low. Only Delta seems to have a plan, even with a bad name, that can compete with Jetblue. USAToday said Delta was an "analyst favorite" because it had only one union, flexibility with RJs, and cash ($2.6 bil) and reserves ($5Bil to mortgage) to ride this out. Even with a dopey name like Song, the product will win out because of "choice." Song gives more choices than Jetblue----more airports (all 3 big NYC airports), better entertainment systems---live TV (Direct TV), ability to choose your own song list and listen to 12 songs of YOUR choosing down the east coast, in Oct you will have Email access, and there will be video games you can play against the guy next to you. You have the option to buy food---which better be tasty if you have to buy it. There will be extra space in the seats, and self serve kiosks to check in. And, to top it off, the 757's will be lime green---which will be easy to spot at the airport. Now I know Jetblue has done very well. They are good at what they do. But, Song will take business away from them. And, to top it off Song offers low fares and a frequent flyer program that can get you free tickets to Rio (on CAL), Singapore (on NW), or Athens on Delta. On Jetblue, you might be able to get a free ride to San Juan on a Tuesday, because all of the other flights are already full. Delta has thought this out, and even with the funky name, it will cut into Jetblue. That's competition!
Bye Bye---General Lee
Slug
SWA Line Swine
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- Dec 6, 2001
- Posts
- 496
General Lee (my hero)
Robert,
I can stand your holding your beloved Delta on high in the threads that actually pertain to Delta and Song (gaaack), but leave your "we're the best, we're going to kick your arse" attitude out of the UAL thread please. Unfortunately, I've read enough of your regurgitated drivel in half a dozen other threads.
Slug
Robert,
I can stand your holding your beloved Delta on high in the threads that actually pertain to Delta and Song (gaaack), but leave your "we're the best, we're going to kick your arse" attitude out of the UAL thread please. Unfortunately, I've read enough of your regurgitated drivel in half a dozen other threads.
Slug
Last edited:
General Lee
Well-known member
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- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Slug,
I see your point. Yeah, I am UP on Delta because I think it is great that we are doing something against the LCC's. I am not trying to become a "commercial" for Song or Delta----I just want to show everyone that we shouldn't be counted out, yet. You are right about staying out of a United thread. Take it easy and I hope you do get on with Southwest.
Bye Bye--General Lee
I see your point. Yeah, I am UP on Delta because I think it is great that we are doing something against the LCC's. I am not trying to become a "commercial" for Song or Delta----I just want to show everyone that we shouldn't be counted out, yet. You are right about staying out of a United thread. Take it easy and I hope you do get on with Southwest.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Gumbydammit
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Slug
SWA Line Swine
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apology
General and Gumby,
Sorry my post came across so harsh. At the time I can only imagine where my head was. My wife was reading it a while ago and she couldn't believe I wrote it. I am usually mello and don't get steamed over much so please accept my apology.
I'm very bummed for my UAL brethren; whether this goes thru or not it is not good. Of the 100-200 military friends/acquaintances (sp?) I have there - they will all be affected negatively. Any glimmer of good in the industry has been downtrodden by the usual UAL mess unfolding. Nothing personal, just bad news bringing me down. (That and the $1800 bill to get my transmission fixed, ha ha). Later
Slug
General and Gumby,
Sorry my post came across so harsh. At the time I can only imagine where my head was. My wife was reading it a while ago and she couldn't believe I wrote it. I am usually mello and don't get steamed over much so please accept my apology.
I'm very bummed for my UAL brethren; whether this goes thru or not it is not good. Of the 100-200 military friends/acquaintances (sp?) I have there - they will all be affected negatively. Any glimmer of good in the industry has been downtrodden by the usual UAL mess unfolding. Nothing personal, just bad news bringing me down. (That and the $1800 bill to get my transmission fixed, ha ha). Later
Slug
Re: DIA, United, Frontier and Alaska
Rumors are everywhere, they are like opnions which are like.......
I heard something along the same lines. AK was looking at A320's which would fall right into you line of thinking.
Or that CAl want's back into DEN in the worst way.
Or that if the NWA/DAL/CAL alliance actually goes though (not this we'll do it anyway, good luck) then AA want's to pick up AK as an alliance partner.
Grain of salt alert. Right now nobody has any money, heck it costs AA $5 mill just to turn the lights on every morning.
Have you heard of any G5 jobs in the North East? Feel free to PM me.
FL510GV said:
Rumors are everywhere, they are like opnions which are like.......
I heard something along the same lines. AK was looking at A320's which would fall right into you line of thinking.
Or that CAl want's back into DEN in the worst way.
Or that if the NWA/DAL/CAL alliance actually goes though (not this we'll do it anyway, good luck) then AA want's to pick up AK as an alliance partner.
Grain of salt alert. Right now nobody has any money, heck it costs AA $5 mill just to turn the lights on every morning.
Have you heard of any G5 jobs in the North East? Feel free to PM me.
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