CMR on the move

[DDpaysoff]

"Listening to the VARS isn't enough."

Particularly when in the midst of this very interesting period in Comair's history there hasn't been a VARS update in 8 days. Throw me a bone MEC. Any news at all would be welcome. Are you done talking with FB? Are you continuing to negotiate? What's next? Where are we in the process?

There's can be an awful lot of disunity, misinformation, rumour mongering, distrust, anger, resentment, bickering, and concern generated in just a week if there is no info forthcoming from our leadership. I'm not asking for an hourly update, but some sort of VARS message every couple of days isn't an unreasonable expectation.

There will be a Vars message tomorrow. There will also be an Embreaer product parked in remote. Maybe even a picket line surrounding the Embreaer product knowing the noisemakers. Should be an interesting day.

 

[skyslug]

sorry...unable to make the vars stick...it keeps disappearing when I cut and paste it here...

 

[g1159]

E170

Just taxied by the CMR hanger (Its Here) Now what?

 

[DDpaysoff]

There was an updated VARS on Feb. 9th. But, it is basically like the FLL taf. You come up with something and just play it over and over again.

Insert date here
"negotiations are a fluid process"
"Your patience is appreciated until all the details are presented"

KFLL "insert date/time here" 10012KT P6SM 040SCT TEMPO 1/2SM TSRA OVC010

Just kidding. I am more than happy to give them the time they need to protect us.

 

[g1159]

I know hangar

 

[surplus1]

Me Too!

I'm sure glad we have at least one thing in common.

Surplus, you unequovocally have an agenda. Yourself! With your very informative 10,000 word diatribes, you always come accross as the nay sayer. You preach one thing and one thing only. Management is alway bad, out to get you, and anything they say is a conspiracy to ultimately screw you. Well, you may be right as far as your personal experiences entail. But, contrairy to the sky falling, this is not always the case. If you conveniently sway the opinion in the negative before the details are known, you are cutting off a very important negotiating tool, trust.

You're right Tim47SIP, I do have an agenda but you're wrong about what it is. My agenda is the welfare of Comair pilots as a whole. Whether you see it that way or not is, candidly, irrelevant and you're not in a position to judge one way or the other. If the number of words I use to express that annoys you, you have the option of bypassing my posts. I'll never know if you did and if I knew, "frankly Scarlet, I don't give a dam-n".

I don't think "management is always bad" at all nor do I believe that anything they say is intended to screw me. Even they, who know me personally and far better than you, don't have that opinion. I'm afraid your opinion is based not on what you know but on what you don't know. But, that's OK; it won't cause me to lose any sleep.

If you think I'm trying to sway the opinion in the negative (re this proposal), you're wrong again. What I personally think about the proposal or how I might decide to vote, doesn't change facts. The pilots are entitled to know the facts, all of them, before we vote. That is the concept I'm trying to pass along. When we do know all the facts, I'm confident the pilots, Comair pilots that is, will make the right decision.

You've made it clear that you think I'm a negative naysayer with an anti-management bent. Not the first time you've implied as much. Truthfully, the only thing that proves to me is that I overestimated your reading comprehension skills.

I make no apology if I don't meet your standards of listening to the CIC, being told I'm dismissed, and saluting with a "yes sir". It has been many years since I voluntarily decided that I didn't care to live with folks that had been made "gentlemen" by act of Congress. I haven't had a moment's regret and I still feel the same way.

Some things do require trust. That trust will be given when it has been earned. It's not automatic and it doesn't come as a consequence of rank. Maybe that's the difference between your thinking and mine.

Other things require facts, written guarantees, and the ability to back them up. In the final analysis this is business and there is no need for contractual terms that leave one in a state of limbo, e.g, "the company will make its best effort". To put it bluntly, that's contractual hogwash. If you want to base the ASA contract on that kind of "trust" you are free to communicate that sentiment to the ASA MEC. Perhaps they will agree with you.

The Comair contract is based on language that everyone can understand and terms that can be enforced if necessary. I would like to keep it that way, whether we change it or not. I'm not asking you to agree, I'm just stating my position. You're free to take it or leave it and so is everyone else. I can only hope that my MEC will give its priority attention to the facts and leave the guess work and the trusting where they belong, outside of the contract.

Look, you are a wealth of information for the not so informed, but sometimes you have to let a new management team present the proposal in good faith.

First of all there is no "new management team". There's a new President so, let's get that straight as a minimum. The rest of the "team" is no different than it was before, with the exception of one useless phony that FB has won many points for dumping. I don't consider myself to be a wealth of information for anyone. If I can manage to point out something that is helpful to my peers I'm both lucky and content. I'm certainly willing to make an attempt.

Though it may surprise you, I like what I've seen of Mr. Buttrell so far. I don't even mind telling you that I'm glad he flew fighters and not choppers for I get a lot more out of what he says than I do out of what you say. He's aggressive, maneuvers well and offers a challenge, whereas all you do is flail at the air hopeing for lift, while expecting me to strike my colors at the first round beacuse there's a new CIC on deck. I'd rather engage.

Actually, I think his approach has been innovative and most of his rhetoric is pretty much on target with respect to the industry and some of our internal problems. I find him "fresh" and encouraging and I'm quite willing to give him the benefit of general support. "Render to Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's".

When it comes to our contract however, changing it requires more than ideas and concepts, no matter how innovative they might be. It requires hard data and facts. None of those were included in "the proposal". When it's serious they need to be. Until the details are known and verifiable progress remains elusive.

I give Mr. Buttrell an A+ for the method he used to present his proposal. He has effectively "forced" the MEC to enter into concessionary negotiations. I don't think that was an accident and I give him full credit for an effective strategy. He got us to the table whether or not we wanted to go. Nicely done.

Now it's our turn and as you say, our negotiating committee, will ferret out the facts and clarify the innuendo and hopefully eliminate the chaff from the wheat. If they can reach and agreement then the MEC will present it with a recommendation and we'll decide collectively.

Meanwhile back at the ranch it is more that appropriate to point out the things that are lacking and why. Those that are ready to jump on the bandwagon in hopes that "trust" will take them to the promised land are natuarally not going to "like" anything said by those that want facts and details. That's the category that you fall into: the gullible.

Since I don't have a seat on the negotiating committee or the MEC, this is one of a few places where I can state my "what to watch for" concepts and the reasons for them. Maybe they'll be discarded or maybe the Neg. Com will get a heads up.

I have not portrayed our new President as a lying, can't be trusted management type. That's garbage jaundiced by your agenda of "believe whatever they tell you" and "if you don't you're an idiot". Your posts reflect the same attitude with reagard to the national union, your big brother in Atlanta, and your politics. All nice idealistic concepts but devoid of pragmatism.

No matter how much I might trust FB's good intentions that does not change the reality of what he can do and what he can not do. He can promise the moon itself but he can only deliver that which Delta allows. That remains a fact regardless of what I might think about him. That's one of the things I've pointed out and you don't like it. Too bad my friend, it happens to be the truth. Truth doesn't stonewall legitimate negotiations. Promising that which you can't deliver just might.

You are set in your ways, and you are concerned that not enough of your subordinates have followed in your beliefs.

First of all I have no "subordinates". We're all equal here and we each have the same number of votes; ONE. The only thing I can do is communicate with my peers and hope that they'll check out the various warning flags for themselves. If they wind up with a different final viewpoint when the time comes to decide, so be it.

Fortunately (from what I have been reading on many of these posts) for the Comair group, you are in the minority.

If that is the case, so be it. It would not be the first time and probably won't be the last. However, before you decide for us who is the minority and who is not, let us decide for ourselves which way we want to go. The truth is you have no idea how I am leaning vote wise, you just think you do. I would also point out to you that only a handful of us a writing on this forum, with a lot of comments from outsiders such as you. That's not indicative of majority vs minority.

Maybe it is time to start working with the management team as a unified group to get your company moving in the right direction instead of attacking. Give them a chance. You both need each other to survive. Maybe going at this with an open mind will go along way.

I'm all for working with the mangement team my friend and I'm not attacking anyone. I'm willing to give the new president not only a chance but support. What you seem to miss is that the very open mind you want me to have requires that I look objectively at the good as well as the not so good and that I ask every question I can think of, in hopes that the right answers will come forth.

Provide those answers and you'll probably get my vote. However, don't ask me to give up my contract in exchange for no more than your promises of bigger and better things. All the cards need to be on the table face up before I can make that bet.

 

[Tim47SIP]

What I personally think about the proposal or how I might decide to vote, doesn't change facts. The pilots are entitled to know the facts, all of them, before we vote. That is the concept I'm trying to pass along. When we do know all the facts, I'm confident the pilots, Comair pilots that is, will make the right decision.


Then Do it! Let them know all the facts BEFORE you make up their mind for them.

P.S. Sorry that I am just a POS helicopter pilot in my other life, someday I may grow up to be able to emulate just half of your knowledge and abilities.

Ready for your next attack!

 

[bvt1151]

I'm confident the pilots, Comair pilots that is, will make the right decision.

What if the union doesn't allow the pilots to make the decision...again? Negotiators have to sign a TA, so ultimitely our future rests upon those of the negotiating commitee. I'd be interested to hear how many representatives first officers have on the negotiating commitee.

In the final analysis this is business and there is no need for contractual terms that leave one in a state of limbo, e.g, "the company will make its best effort".

If that's not stating the obvious... Or perhaps its a little insulting...

First of all there is no "new management team". There's a new President so, let's get that straight as a minimum. The rest of the "team" is no different than it was before, with the exception of one useless phony that FB has won many points for dumping.

There absolutely is a new management team. Who is still here from the strike? Oz, and... uh...Siebs...no, Randy...no, Stewart...no, Linda Noble...no, Darr...no, C-Bare...no.

Thats only 14% of the managers we dealt with from DO up still remaining. Thats as close to a new management team as your going to get without changing companies yourself.

That's the category that you fall into: the gullible.

To many of the union hard-liners such as yourself, the educated seem gullible.

The truth is you have no idea how I am leaning vote wise, you just think you do.

I think we all have a pretty good hunch.

 

[bvt1151]

Ready for your next attack!

No kidding. You've stepped into the world of condescending, Surplus (actually you flew right past condescending on your anti-helio device and landed squarely on insulting)