CMR management snubs merger

[Slim]

If anyone thinks the CMR/ASA pilots are really surprised by the "snub,"...think again!

This is essentially a poker game. The CMR/ASA MECs called management's bluff. Doing so achieved two things.

First, it exposed the two managements for what they really are...puppets of DAL/DCI. The dual response saying they can't meet ALPA's demands because they are outside their respective areas of responsibility/control aren't at all surprising.

Second, the response gives the two MECs (and ASA's negotiating committee) a credible way to say "You no longer have credibility," to ASA management negotiators. Both MECs can use this in the future. ASA and CMR management can't guarantee growth, can't merge the two operations, can't guarantee all DCI flying will go to CMR and ASA, can't do a lot of things.

In future negotiations, I can see current and future MEC chairmen and negotiating team leaders saying to management, on day one, "what can you guarantee?" I won't be at all surprised if, in the near future, the NMB asks the same question.

I also see the DAL MEC becoming a player here. When they negotiate with DAL, they may well bring the CMR/ASA response up with DAL management. I doubt Portfolio Phred will. Will that be a factor? If he does, he proposes the elimination of his own position.

 

[surplus1]

Could any of you please define the term "brand scope" for me? What exactlydoes that really mean?

I know it's part of DW's newest buzz words, but I've never seen any official definition of what it really means.

Thanks

 

[KingAirKiddo]

The silence is deafening.

 

[N2264J]

CMR management snubs...

Could any of you please define the term "brand scope" for me? What exactly does that really mean?

I'll tell you what I think it means.

It offers the illusion that all brand flying will be brought in house via the mainline MEC - but there's a price. Since it's ALPA's position that it's all mainline flying anyway and ALPA, as the sole bargaining agent, has locked the little guys out of bargaining with their true employer, it would follow that the mainline MEC is the only entity that could negotiate scope for their wholly owned "brothers."

What gets me is that the smaller MECs are going to have to pay management and the mainline MEC for whatever scope the DMEC believes they require. The double whammy. In other words, the wholly owns will be beholden to the mainline MEC for their scope "protection" and growth. Nice racquet, eh?

The Comair and ASA pilots didn't elect any of the Delta MEC to represent them but it appears that our MECs, with encouragement from Herndon, are getting ready to turn over this important aspect of our contract to the DMEC. The reason I say that is after the Delta pilots made such a big deal out of CMR/ASA being separate companies during the PID, the Chairman of the DMEC is now somehow involved with the CMR/ASA merger. Lawson and Arnold consulted with Malone about it, he gave them his blessing and now he's taking it to the Delta MEC.

Since ALPA won't let us negotiate scope anyway, this will probably provide enough of a carrot for an easy sell to the rank and file.

 

[wms]

There are certain initiatives that the ASA/CA pilot groups would like to pursue, such as brand-scope. Our MECs don't have bargaining power over the companies when the companies now are willing to low-ball us with contract carriers. The only defense is some kind of brand-scope, and that is not possible without DMEC support. The DMEC naturally won't support it if it doesn't include the 1060, we won't agree to bring in the 1060 in the manner the DMEC would like us to without some sort of seniority merger. DAL needs concessions from DMEC. Hence it is all intertwined.

The old-timers at ASA/CA still have heart burn from the fall of 2000, but if they want protection from the use of contract carriers they're going to have to suck it up accept the fact that the only one with bargaining power is DMEC, and we have to try to use that to our advantage. If we don't allow our own MECs to work with the DMEC we'll only loose opportunities in the future.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Date of hire???? is that how we would merge? Food for thought, CMR will have hired 286 pilots by the end of 2003, how many pilots did ASA hire in 2003? that means that the bottom ASA guy/gal will instantly have 300+CMR pilots under him/her if the merger happened in Jan 04...good times for ASA, sucky deal for CMR.....

Waco,

I'll be sure to keep your relative seniority concerns in mind next time I see you in Atlanta flying a Comair airplane to somewhere like GSP or TLH. Keep in mind that the 286 pilots Comair has hired in 2003 pretty much make up the Comair contingent in Atlanta.... I guess just like the 0 pilots ASA has hired in 2003 pretty much make up the ASA contingent in Cincinatti. Judging by your attitude and your lack of insight, I imagine you probably weren't around for the Comair strike. Just keep in mind that today's good times for Comair could be tomorrow's good times for ASA. That is the issue that this merger is attempting to address. Don't think for one minute that any of us at ASA will be willing to take a "second tier" status if this merger ever happens. The fact that you are Portfolio Fred's instrument of choice at the moment doesn't win you any points when it comes to a merged list.

 

[Publishers]

what did I miss

You are having a debate over how to do something the company refuses to even discuss.

 

[Medeco]

JUST FOR THE RECORD

So everyone knows, ASA hired 20 people in 2003, on Jan 2nd.

SO there.

Merry Christmas
Medeco

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Re: what did I miss

You are having a debate over how to do something the company refuses to even discuss.

The main thing that you missed is that this "debate" in no way concerns you.

 

[embraerdriver]

merger shmerger............blah blah blah!

Happy Holidays and lick my plums....ya pukes!!

 

[N2264J]

CMR management snubs...

There are certain initiatives that the ASA/CA pilot groups would like to pursue, such as brand-scope. Our MECs don't have bargaining power over the companies when the companies now are willing to low-ball us with contract carriers.

OK, so why is that? How do you think that came about? ALPA allowed the DMEC to financially cap our careers (after denying the PID) by limiting the size of aircraft and amount of flying we do in addition to prohibiting the CMR/ASA MECs from negotiating scope with their true employer. On top of that, there are no provisions in the Delta scope clause to prevent the whipsaw and low balling of the wholly owns - we have been sacrificed to management by the union that is suppose to protect our interests. Your dues dollars at work.

The only defense is some kind of brand-scope, and that is not possible without DMEC support...but if [the old timers] want protection from the use of contract carriers they're going to have to suck it up accept the fact that the only one with bargaining power is DMEC, and we have to try to use that to our advantage. If we don't allow our own MECs to work with the DMEC we'll only loose opportunities in the future.

Giving away your pilot groups right to bargain with your employer so another pilot group may negotiate in your behalf is not the answer.

This is the menality, fostered over the years by ALPA and management, that has left the smaller carriers with the weaker work rules, benefits and pay. So many people think that they are just making a low pass through the "regionals" to build time and move on and don't really care about making their current airline a career airline. They don't want to make waves or be a trouble maker or do something that might show up at the interview while they get some PIC time and then go elsewhere. In their own minds, it's not their fight. They are easily intimidated by management and will fold like a cheap card table when the time comes. This menality was the biggest obstacle to overcome for the Comair strike and is, in my opinion, one of the reasons the strike ended when it did.

ALPA owes you a duty. If they are not going to merge us with Delta then they must ensure we can bargain scope with our real employer, not with the Delta MEC or Comair "management."