climbto350- Opinions Please?

[mar]

My definition of a reasonable investment

A college degree and $30,000 worth of flight training.

I'm just saying that I've already made my investment. I also have the skills, technical knowledge and work history to back it up.

All of that (the investment + personal qualifications) should really be enough to allow me to apply to any job. I just get really frustrated when artificial barriers are put in front of me and the only thing that can knock them down is some more coin.

Thanks for your response.

 

[publisher]

You can apply anywhere you want.

On the other hand, if Southwest wants to say we are only going to employ people who walk through the door with a Boeing 737 type rating, that is their right too. If they cannot get enough, then they can change their system.

Your point reminds me of a great inventor who makes the perfect widget but has no clue how to tell anyone about it and so waits for someone needing one to find him.

You have the skills and the times, but you want to leave the telling of those talents to your way of doing it. Fine. If that is working for you, why complain about these systems.

 

[Ty Webb]

Scrub-lisher

Scrublisher, your argument falls apart upon first inspection. You see, UPS seems to be able to process their own apps. So does UAL . . and ATA . . . and AirTran, and Jet Blue, and SWA, and many others.

Once again, Publisher opens his pie-hole and leaves little doubt that he is a disgruntled wannabe who now makes a living pimping pilot employment materials.

How sad

 

[ivauir]

IMHO

Like many of you I have spent thousands of dollars in my search for an airline job. A lot of that money is gone forever - I'll never wear that suit again, I don't need that FEX of Radio Operator Permit and FedEx, NWA, and AA will never return my hard earned cash. Also, like many of you my technical skills have never been questioned, I have the ratings and the hours and the experience the majors say they want. Frankly, I spent any where I thought it would help: expensive paper for my resume, job fairs, UPAS, Air Inc, a great suit, Rob Beeks, my phone bill (for letters of rec), and so on. Not including anything that makes me a more qualified or better pilot I have spent more than two grand.

But I do not regret a single dime I spent, even the "wasted" ones. Because I was not going to let me being cheap deny me the lifestyle I want. Yes, there are a lot of things you really do not need to get the job, but if you expect to get hired on your technical merits alone it'll be a long wait.

I am not saying sign up for every resume service or job fair out there. But you better do something more than fly a good plane. Stop whinning about what is fair or how you wish things were. If someone else is willing to go that extra mile and you are not - that person WILL TAKE YOUR JOB!

One last parting shot - having the hours and ratings does not make you a great pilot. And being a great pilot doesn't make you someone worth knowing (or employing).

Best of luck to all y'all.

 

[mar]

Far from the perfect widget

Mr. Publisher: Thanks for the comparison but I'll be the first to admit my career is far from the perfect widget.

I'm complaining because this is how I exercise my right to self-expression.

I'm complaining about being nickle and dimed to death for the same reason we complain about PFT--Because if we didn't complain everyone that is new to the industry would think that it's the status quo.

I'm complaining because to remain silent is an implicit approval.

You're right! Southwest can stipulate any requirement they wish for employment (as long as it doesn't discriminate against race, creed, sexual orientation, etc.). And Southwest is a fantastic company--no doubt about it--my application would be there in a heartbeat if they would drop the 737 type requirement. But I am dead set against labor picking up any portion of the company's training cost (PFT, training contracts, or type ratings). If they said, 737 type with 500 hours in type, I would be much more amenable.

You have a right to start any kind of business you like.

I have a right to say I've had enough and I'm not giving one more red cent to another middle man.

And, Mr. Ivauir, it's not because I'm cheap, but thanks for your advice nevertheless.

I agree with all your points from a strictly logical point of view. In sum, you wrote: "One last parting shot - having the hours and ratings does not make you a great pilot. And being a great pilot doesn't make you someone worth knowing (or employing)."

Well this is really the point, isn't it?

That's why companies interview--To get to know the applicant. Right now it's very difficult to get the interview without paying the middle man.

Gotta go.

 

[CCDiscoB]

mar,

I totally agree with you. No money to the middle men! Like Jet-Jobs, what a joke. Their magazine is a rag. No 737 type, and certainly no pay for training. They want me, they pay for training.

I've received interview offers without the help of "middle men." Thank you very little.

I'll never fly for SWA or commuters, bummer. At least I know I won't have to submit an application fee.

 

[enigma]

Hey Publisher

For one, I don't mind the middle man who serves as a clearinghouse for both the applicant and employer. What I mind is the people who make a living by playing to the dreams and emotions of the uninformed. How many articles have been written by such rags as FAPA, AirInc, etc, that continually speak of pilot shortages? How many articles have been written that speak of PFT pimp outfits in glowing terms?
I've always tried to avoid supporting those type of publications, but I confess that I did inadvertantly support a mag called Aviation Careers (if memory serves) because I was a client of AEPS.
It seems as if most of the information they offer is either old or incorrect. They recently featured my airline, and that issue was the laughing stock of my crashpad for a week. It's too bad that organizations that probably started out with honorable intentions must sell out their integrety in order to keep up the income stream.

PS, I realize that sometimes the writers get snowed by the managers they interview. However, I imagine that they are so focused on writing something that will sell, they they are easy marks.

PPS, for those who have read this far. There are only two guys who I have read that don't act as cheerleaders for the "shortage" lie. They are Paul Berliner, and Bruce Crofts.