Class Dates at Southern Air and Focus

[pilotbrain]

I worked for SAI before I left to cargo 360, now I’m back at SA. Anyways when I interview you had to be recommended by someone in the company, that why most interviewees get hired. Now from what I hear, they are doing sim rides so not everyone is getting hired anymore.

 

[unwashed]

Dude,
If you aren't Ken, Pete, John, Jin, Mitch, Eric, Arlene, Greg, Mark, Dave, or Scott then you never worked for C360 as a pilot. None of the people mentioned worked for SAI prior to C360, who are you and why do keep this charade going. The only three people at C360 who flew the 400 did all of it in the SIM Jerry, Pat, and Warren. None of the aforementioned people are in the pool at UPS. Soooooooooo who are you?

 

[dakotaHC8]

I'm not trying to be rude - but how hard is the interview? How many people don't get hired? The reason I ask is because it sounds like they hire everyone. I hear alot of "have a pulse? you're hired" when it comes to SA. I guess this is just grapevine, so whats the real deal?

Well, I know they did not hire a fair number of the people in my interview class two years ago. And I know that they are trying to screen people better with a basic sim ride included in the process. But I would not describe the process as difficult, as IMO they tend to look for someone that will fit into the operation more than anything else. You are either a good fit, or you are not.

I would also agree that a rec from a current Southern Pilot or Engineer goes a long way towards getting hired here. Things in this part of the industry are probably more like the corporate community (than airlines), as it seems that the cargo community tends to have a lot of "people that know people" kind of hiring going on... Many of the people at Southern have been at other cargo operators (and visa versa), and came over to us simply on the advice of a former coworker.

I'll be honest. If there is a bunch of cargo guys looking for a job due to a recent failure, furlough, or financial meltdown of another cargo outfit(s) you will have a slim chance getting on at Southern, as that is the "preferred" kind of Pilot + PFE. But if that pool of canidates is dry, then the obvious next choice is the thousands of RJ pilots out there.

Like I said before, it comes back to what kind of person is a good fit for the operation. Former cargo guys are more used to the different kind of operations that Southern does, and the hours at which we do em. But that does not preclude a RJ driver from getting on, and doing well at Southern. Just that like most things in this job, timing is very important. Right now is a great time, because all airlines are having a tougher time finding experienced pilots.

I'll be blunt, the pilot shortage is real, and is felt more at this level, esp when the company is expanding so fast. So as a result, it is easier to get on with a growing operation like Southern right now than the more static operations.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to ask instead of just going with what some person might have heard some guy say.

FYI, straight up, most of the ACMI cargo flying is pretty much the same, with minor differences that even things out. Anyone that tells you differently either doesn't know better, or ignores reality so that they can feel better about themselves (and what they are doing).

When you honestly talk to someone that flies for Evergreen, Tradewinds, Focus, World, Atlas, Polar, (and so on) you find that each outfit has it's plusses and minuses...

And when you add them all together all of these places are pretty much alike. Much like how M+M's mostly taste the same when you get down to it, despite whatever color coating they happen to have on the outside... ACMI operations are purposefully kept pretty close to even

Southern's "outer" flavor is a tough schedule + soft work rules, tied to a home basing + quick advancement.... But at it's core it "tastes" the same as any other ACMI outfit (much like working + getting hired at most regionals is generally the same as any other regional) . It's just the nature of the job...

So good luck. If you want something different than the regionals, ACMI flying will sure provide that.

Good luck.

 

[avbug]

Pilotbrain was thoroughly discredited here...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=105613

He or she is what's commonly referred to as a "troll."

 

[pilotbrain]

Or mabey just mabey there is more then one person using pilotbrain as a handle.

 

[avbug]

Ah, no. You've tried posting under numerous names, but also have identified yourself as a captain and copilot for several carriers, all within the last year, and most recently have promoted yourself to captain in the 747 in your internet world. A year ago you told us you'd failed interviews for skywest.

Simply clicking on your name on this thread will give the viewer the option to review your old posts...all of them, all made by YOU...only one person with that handle and it's you.

Zero credibility, some serious inadequacy issues, and a penchant for telling lies...that's you.

 

[pilotbrain]

Like i said before there just might be more then one person using this handle

 

[avbug]

Not unless you let them. There's only one such "handle" registered. That would be you. Either you're a multi-personality fruitcake, or dumb enough to let others post under your name (and the others under which you've posted). Either way, you have zero credibility...either as the mythical 27 year old non-existant captain for SAI/Cargo 360, or the kid who failed his Frasca sim check at Skywest. (Though admittedly, it's a lot easier to envision you as the kid that failed his checkride, from your posts).

Of course, if there's more than one of you posting under this name, it means only that you are multiple trolls, each of whom lacks any credibility. Have it either way. Either you're a discredited individiual with inadequacy issues, or a group of discredited individuals, the collective wisdom of whom lacks a great deal of maturity.

Might as well try under a new name. Again. Maybe next time you'll do better.

 

[Rottweiller]

Dakota, you mention trips can be long (OK nature of cargo) but what kind of schedules are realistic, 18 on 12 off??

Growth seems to be rapid there and you mention CA qual FO's but what is the average time to make full CA and what constitutes CA qualified (prior 74 CA, Chuck Yeager in the sim etc?

Home basing is a big plus but is there a standard for DH flights, ie. business/first class or are you stuck in cattle for 12+ hours.

Thanks for your time.

 

[dakotaHC8]

Dakota, you mention trips can be long (OK nature of cargo) but what kind of schedules are realistic, 18 on 12 off??

Growth seems to be rapid there and you mention CA qual FO's but what is the average time to make full CA and what constitutes CA qualified (prior 74 CA, Chuck Yeager in the sim etc?

Home basing is a big plus but is there a standard for DH flights, ie. business/first class or are you stuck in cattle for 12+ hours.

Thanks for your time.

Ten days off is what you are scheduled for, but the company will often hit you up to trade a few of em in return for overtime pay when things get busy (or you happen to be on the side of planet earth that they need someone). Many guys do so in order to rack up bigger paychecks (80-120 hours). Others shoot for the days off (like me), and depending on how busy the season is, you can average a fair number of days at home, as you are supposed to pull your reserve at home (and like I said, if you are in the states and they need someon in Shanghai, well you can do the math). But make no mistake that you can end up on a long long... long rotation, if the schedule you bid (or end up with) backs up into the next months schedule... Like 40 days long. But its not that common. Longest I was out was 33 days in a row.

It depends on the schedule too, if you bid overseas vs. Domestic (usually ANC to lower 48), then obviously you will see less of the good 'ol USA...

So, I wouldn't recommend this company if you are a total homebody, as the real cash is when you stay out on the road... But if that's what you are looking for, you can work 'til you are blue in the face and see every corner of the world.

As for CA Qual'd FO's, I cannot speak for the company, but IMO they obviously are looking for someone that can step into the position quickly, without a lot of catching up. Obviously PIC time is a huge must, larger Jet pref'd, and someone that has overwater/international exper. is also a big plus... As a lot of repsopnsibility falls on the shoulder of our Captains. Much like I pointed out before, timing is everything, as sometimes they do not have a real need for them, while othertimes they do.

Standard Upgrade depend upon the amount of large jet time you come in with, otherwise you have to accumulate at least 500+ hours in type before getting into the left seat.

DH...? Depends on your freq flier status with the airline, otherwise coach. Much like NetJet guys, you become a master of the FF miles, and try to gain elite status on the most common carriers you fly on, so you can snag the better seats and priority boarding. Adds up quick if you DH up to ANC or overseas to Europe or Asia.

I'm not a big fan of coach, but it beats worrying about non-revving to get to work (like I did for a decade +). another thing most people do not mention in regards to Southern, is your travel to and fro is during work days, so your days off are at home

PS. You do not get DH pay your first year, which sucks, but it was one of the trade offs for us to retain Home Basing. sorry...

But most of the time, esp in the first year you will ride along on the upper deck on a comapny flight. Not quite the first class it might be on passenger 747s, but the bunks help kill the time + there are outlets to plug your laptop/PSP's into...

Hope it helps.

 

[ERJFO]

When you honestly talk to someone that flies for Evergreen, Tradewinds, Focus, World, Atlas, Polar, (and so on) you find that each outfit has it's plusses and minuses...

And when you add them all together all of these places are pretty much alike. Much like how M+M's mostly taste the same when you get down to it, despite whatever color coating they happen to have on the outside... ACMI operations are purposefully kept pretty close to even

Southern's "outer" flavor is a tough schedule + soft work rules, tied to a home basing + quick advancement.... But at it's core it "tastes" the same as any other ACMI outfit (much like working + getting hired at most regionals is generally the same as any other regional) . It's just the nature of the job...

So good luck. If you want something different than the regionals, ACMI flying will sure provide that.

Good luck.

Thanks for the info! I tend to think that the small diffences add up rather quickly and can make one place better or worse...

I do see what your saying though in that they run very similary.

I've talked to Atlas guys that "still enjoy it" and Evergreen guys that "wish they were dead." So I have to believe some places are better than others.

Kinda like the RJ thing. If I were at a place with PBS it's a slim chance that I would be in the middle of 43 days off on vacation right now! Some places don't build lines with 19 days off a month. Now we all fly RJ's on RJ type routes but when the Mesa crew piles in the van I don't hear any of them tell me they get more than 15 days off - I don't imagine any off them can get 40+ days off with only 2 weeks of vacation either... It's the same job, but the company makes a difference. I have to think the ACMI world sees a bit of that?

Agian, thanks for the info.

 

[dakotaHC8]

Well, it depends a lot on what you are looking for.

Obviously if you want to make a career of flying ACMI, then the more static outfits might be your thing. While Southern has some decent long term potential, for the near term it is going to be in a real state of flux.

Look to the regional industry that you are probably more familiar with for a decent comparison. Some regionals actually are decent places to stay and make a career, but they tend to be the more stable and static of the lot vs. the hyper-growth and chaotic companies like Republic/CHQ/ShAmr...

All in all, most regionals are alike, but you have to decide what your long term goals are to see which outfit best matches your needs.

Anyways, my goal was to provide better information regarding Southern Air, as much of what has been on here lately was tainted by the bad blood (some had) regarding the absorbtion of Cargo 360, or from others that never worked for (but seem to have to share an opinion about) Southern.

While I understand where the C360 guys are coming from, I still have to keep some pride in the job I do (and where I do it at)... So I figured it might be time to explain a few things about a airline that I work for.

The company is by no means UPS or FedEx, but it is not that bad either. It is pretty much what you should expect from a non scheduled, international, cargo ACMI company that has more than tripled in size in the last two years...

So there ya go, hope my posts shed some light upon things for ya, so you could decide for yourselves if Southern was right for you.



Blue Skies.

 

[gear_yanker]

Let's be completely honest and not omit some key facts:

1. Southern uses the possibility of being a "Captain qualified F/O" as bait to fill the classes. The truth is that this happens very rarely and only to those who perform exceptionally well during initial training. The majority of guys who have accomplished this have had previous large jet command experience. It is extremely unlikely that someone coming from a commuter/regional aircraft background could perform well enough during initial training to be considered for the left seat, especially if a guy is coming from something modern, with glass.

2. There are no other 747 operators at this level of the industry that require new hires to sign a training bond. And don't compare Southern to World in this respect. Southern doesn't PIC type new hires.....World does. And 747 F/O time on your resume is nearly useless these days, thanks to the large number of "training mills" like Southern, Tradewinds and Focus.

I do agree that ACMI flying offers the same lifestyle wherever you decide to work. That's all the more reason to avoid Southern and their training bond!!

 

[On Your Six]

No operator is perfect, but I still think Kalitta sounds like a better deal than Southern, Evergreen and a few others. I hear upgrades are pretty quick at Kalitta too.

I don't know why some people are so he11-bent on Southern - it ain't that great from what I have heard...

 

[dakotaHC8]

Let's be completely honest and not omit some key facts:

Really...?

Because in the last year there have been 16 of these Captain Qual'd F/O's, and a number of additional pilots who were offered the chance (yet wanted to get some right seat time first). Most have since "upgraded", and now have full status as a Captain, and two were even promoted to Check Airman.

But why let reality get in the way of your "honest facts"...?

No one suggested that anyone other than a highly qualified pilot would be eligible for such a thing, and to imply such is just showing your bias against Southern Air.

Yeah, not everyone get's offered 4 stripes when they walk in the door, no duh... But the upgrade is running around just over a year's time regardless. (Except for the handful that are just not capable - like a number of First Officers at every airline I have flown at - incld. a Major).

So I stand by my assertion that Southern does has rapid advancement, and that if you ARE Captain QUALIFIED, then there might be a position as a Captain Qualified First Officer (if the company needs em and they think you are ready)

As for the training bond. It did not exist when I signed on, but I doubt that it would have made a major differenece to me if it had. I planned on being here at least 2 years... Anything shorter seems like a waste of time (going thru groundschool, training, and IOE just to leave soon thereafter).

If you are good enough to get on with Southern, you can probably get on with Atlas or Kalitta (or whoever else) right now that you might have left SA for, so why bother coming here in the first place if you are just gonna leave...?

Do you enjoy sitting in classrooms or something...???

I'm sorry anyone's career plan of jumping ship, before the ink is dry on your new B747 type got a little sidetracked by a training contract. I guess it goes against the character of Southern being a "Training Mill". Hopefully your new employer can be more understanding about your feelings and needs Sport.

You called me out as a Liar by telling me to be honest + inclusive with the facts about Southern, which was BS. Nothing I have said was a lie, and I have not sugarcoated working for Southern one bit.

I'm just handing out information on my workplace for people (interested in the company) to make up their own minds. Southern has never been a place for just anyone (from the Southern Air Transport days to the present), but it is a good place for others.

So unless you have real information to add... (as the training bond was mentioned already + your "facts" about the captain Qual'd F/O program were wrong), feel free to stick to airlines that you actually know something about. (which is the whole purpose behind flightinfo.com)


Merry Christmas