CL-601 down in Montrose, CO

[surplus1]

I don't see Northwest or Delta pilots paying for their training.

If tomorrow the management(s) of NWA and DAL decided to charge for initial training, what do you think would happen? Would they go out of business for no takers? Would their airplanes suddenly start falling out of the sky? People don't pay to go to work at those companies because they don't charge. If they did, I respectfully submit they would have just as many applicants as they do today, i.e., more than they can hire.

I don't like the concept of PFT and I don't support it, but I still think it has nothing to do with piloting skills.

PFT, just like the "age 60 rule", is an economic issue and nothing more. If every company did it the complaints would soon stop and the very same people would be hired. If they didn't have the money they would just borrow it, like they do to go to college. The controlling factor is the availability of pilots vs the availability of jobs.

You don't see anybody refusing to apply at SWA because they have to buy a 737 type rating, do you? I hope you're not going to tell me that NWA and DAL pilots are more qualified or better people than SWA pilots, are you?.

People went to work at JTBlue when they were only paying $72 hr. for an A320 captain. One year of that is a lot more expensive that paying for a type rating and getting a job at SWA. There was no shortage of applicants at JBlue. Do you think their pilots are less competent because they pay less than NW or DAL?

Do some more thinking.

 

[goofyleftwich]

I have to agree with surplus1.......I have started another thread in the general section. We have strayed quite a bit from the original posted subject

 

[Daveman]

Sorry 'bout hijacking this "PFT" thread, but any new news about The CL-601 Montrose case?

(Oh, PFT is an abomination!)

 

[Oakum_Boy]

If tomorrow the management(s) of NWA and DAL decided to charge for initial training, what do you think would happen? Would they go out of business for no takers? Would their airplanes suddenly start falling out of the sky? People don't pay to go to work at those companies because they don't charge. If they did, I respectfully submit they would have just as many applicants as they do today, i.e., more than they can hire.

I don't like the concept of PFT and I don't support it, but I still think it has nothing to do with piloting skills.

PFT, just like the "age 60 rule", is an economic issue and nothing more. If every company did it the complaints would soon stop and the very same people would be hired. If they didn't have the money they would just borrow it, like they do to go to college. The controlling factor is the availability of pilots vs the availability of jobs.

You don't see anybody refusing to apply at SWA because they have to buy a 737 type rating, do you? I hope you're not going to tell me that NWA and DAL pilots are more qualified or better people than SWA pilots, are you?.

People went to work at JTBlue when they were only paying $72 hr. for an A320 captain. One year of that is a lot more expensive that paying for a type rating and getting a job at SWA. There was no shortage of applicants at JBlue. Do you think their pilots are less competent because they pay less than NW or DAL?

Do some more thinking.

Southwest and JetBlue attract quality applicants because:

1. They are relatively well paying, employee friendly organizations that survive because their pilots have provided for a safe an efficient operation.

2. PFT pilots cannot really guarantee a safe and efficient operation. I've seen it first hand. At PFT airlines and operators, it is a single pilot proposition. The seat warmers to the right are just that. Not ideal, but my reality for now. Sooner or later that will catch up with any company who chooses to do so.

Why? Because they are less qualified, and probably did not have the skill and/or education to become a highly sought after professional. Your argument does not really work. Why? Because I work for a company who has long since stopped PFT, but the people getting hired are still useless. Maybe you're right on some level, but the bottom line is that sh1tty companies attract sh1tty applicants. Safety aside, the actuaries and beancounters are figuring out which is more expensive- accidents, or $$$ spent on good pilots....

 

[LXJ31]

Why doesn't NWA or AA require new hires to pay for their training? After all, they are in business to make money; it would make perfect sense of they could shed the cost of training new pilots. Do you think it might be because it would affect the quality of their applicants? Its not a union issue; new hires aren't in the union and the union would probably support an action that helped the corporate bottom line (especially profit sharing organizations.)

Are the pilots at JTBlue less competent than the ones at AA? Why would a pilot, if given the choice between the two, go to an organization that will pay them less and may not be around a few years down the road? Answer is, if given the choice, they would choose AA. (This is a few years ago.) Ergo, the vast majority of pilots who went to JTB likely went there because they were not being offered better positions elsewhere at the time.

How come you don't see firefighters, fresh out of school going to big municipal departments and saying, "Hey, I know I'm green, but if you hire me I'll help buy a new firetruck?" There are always far more applicants than jobs, just like aviation.

Not only is PFT wrong and unethical, it could be argued to be a discriminatory practice. Since, to get hired at a hypothetical company, you need to be able to finance yourself 20K worth, if you are poor it is unlikely you could do that. (The college loan analogy doesn't fit since there is a whole section of the government in place specifically to secure loans for people who otherwise wouldn't get them on the open market unsecured.) Try going to a bank if you are poor with few assets and saying, "Yes, I'd like twenty grand to buy a job..." Since most poor people come from backgrounds other than Caucasian, they are far less likely to be able to work at places that require PFT.

 

[Kingairrick]

Okum:
Jetblue pay $ucks. check out www.airlinepilotpay.com

 

[goofyleftwich]

How come you don't see firefighters, fresh out of school going to big municipal departments and saying, "Hey, I know I'm green, but if you hire me I'll help buy a new firetruck?" There are always far more applicants than jobs, just like aviation.

Isn't this what UA, AA, NW, DL doing. They are taking money from the employees and buying fuel, etc. Seems like I am paying for my job.

Not only is PFT wrong and unethical, it could be argued to be a discriminatory practice. Since, to get hired at a hypothetical company, you need to be able to finance yourself 20K worth, .

Okay so the type at SW only costs 6-10K

 

[goofyleftwich]

this is getting fuc king silly

 

[Daveman]

Sorry 'bout hijacking this "PFT" thread, but any new news about The CL-601 Montrose case?

(Oh, PFT is an abomination!)

........

 

[goofyleftwich]

all the majors required a application fee of what 50 - 100 bucks....you didn't pay for the training but you certainly paid to be considered for employment