CJ2 crash @ Santa Monica

[johnsonrod]

Not much information provided in this article. Happened on the airport grounds vs in the surrounding neighborhoods. RIP

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/29/crash-santa-monica-airport/2894191/

 

[Newkem]

Not much information provided in this article. Happened on the airport grounds vs in the surrounding neighborhoods. RIP

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/29/crash-santa-monica-airport/2894191/

Thoughts and prayers for all involved.

Lousy reporting typical of drive by journalism care of the Useless Today. Very few facts and full of prejudgment. "The crash was not survivable" BS. SMO sucks all the way around, do they even have CFR? They spend all their money on rentacops and noise monitoring rigamarole.

RIP all.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Thoughts and prayers for all involved.

Lousy reporting typical of drive by journalism care of the Useless Today. Very few facts and full of prejudgment. "The crash was not survivable" BS. SMO sucks all the way around, do they even have CFR? They spend all their money on rentacops and noise monitoring rigamarole.

RIP all.

You won't have to worry about that anymore. SMO will be closed to jet traffic by the end of the year and gone as an airport within 5 years.

This is what Malcolm Gladwell calls a "tipping point."

Condolences to the family and friends involved.

 

[CALRepublic]

You won't have to worry about that anymore. SMO will be closed to jet traffic by the end of the year and gone as an airport within 5 years.

.

GOD I hope you're right

SMO and jets don't play well together..... only a matter of time before an inexperienced pilot stalls a jet on take off while trying to "reduce noise"....

there is no need to go into SMO (LAX, LGB, BUR, VNY, SNA, ONT) jeez, how many options do you need??

I hate that freaking airport

 

[bailout]

Looks like a tire popped on landing and they lost control, veered off into the hangar.

 

[gutshotdraw]

GOD I hope you're right

SMO and jets don't play well together..... only a matter of time before an inexperienced pilot stalls a jet on take off while trying to "reduce noise"....

there is no need to go into SMO (LAX, LGB, BUR, VNY, SNA, ONT) jeez, how many options do you need??

I hate that freaking airport

I dislike operating into that airport too. But every time we let the anti-airport, anti-business, noise whiners bully an airport into closing (Meigs, etc.) another small piece of general aviation dies.

I cut my teeth in this business buzzing around in a C-152. Between fuel prices, insurance costs, over-regulation, and airport closures, those opportunities for the next guy are rapidly disappearing. And that hurts EVERYBODY that plies this trade, no matter how frustrating and stupid it can sometimes be.

 

[FLYLOW22]

This is unfortunate for many reasons.

Sounds like another owner flown airplane finds the weeds. It always amazes me how some will spend 10 million on an airplane but cheap out on the talent up front as if it's "just an option" to have a safe and professional crew up there.

 

[crashtest]

Your dead on point there my friend.

 

[rajflyboy]

This is unfortunate for many reasons.

Sounds like another owner flown airplane finds the weeds. It always amazes me how some will spend 10 million on an airplane but cheap out on the talent up front as if it's "just an option" to have a safe and professional crew up there.

Hmmm

Reading helps

if preliminary reports are correct a tire blew out (not likely to be crew related this time)

 

[chqflyer]

I'm not trying to come across as a heartless ass, but a well trained, professional crew would be less likely to lose control in an abnormal situation than your typical CEO Top Gun commando.

Some of the scariest aviators I have ever seen are tearing up the skies around HPN on every sunny weekend.

 

[johnnyride24]

Hmmm

Reading helps

if preliminary reports are correct a tire blew out (not likely to be crew related this time)

Was he to fast?

Did he land long and lock up a wheel?

The blame always goes to the pilot.

Either way Santa Monica airport is dangerous. Its only a matter of time before something larger goes off the end of the runway.

Time to make them rich folks drive to LAX, OR VNY.

 

[shanes123]

Was he to fast?

Did he land long and lock up a wheel?

The blame always goes to the pilot.

Either way Santa Monica airport is dangerous. Its only a matter of time before something larger goes off the end of the runway.

Time to make them rich folks drive to LAX, OR VNY.

That makes no sense..length of runway had nothing to do with it..he went off the side, not the end..it could have been 10,000ft long and outcome probably would have been the same assuming hangar and everything was in the way of his path

 

[t-bone]

That makes no sense..length of runway had nothing to do with it..he went off the side, not the end..it could have been 10,000ft long and outcome probably would have been the same assuming hangar and everything was in the way of his path

I respectfully disagree.

Do you apply the same amount of toe-brake pressure going into SMO as you do SFO? If there was a brake/wheel issue, it absolutely could have become an issue due to the short & downhill runway.

 

[Flightbag]

GOD I hope you're right

SMO and jets don't play well together..... only a matter of time before an inexperienced pilot stalls a jet on take off while trying to "reduce noise"....

there is no need to go into SMO (LAX, LGB, BUR, VNY, SNA, ONT) jeez, how many options do you need??

I hate that freaking airport

SMO isn't for everybody. Only the good pilots like to fly there. Weak ones generally don't.

Flightbag

 

[OHGOON]

I'm not trying to come across as a heartless ass, but a well trained, professional crew would be less likely to lose control in an abnormal situation than your typical CEO Top Gun commando.

Some of the scariest aviators I have ever seen are tearing up the skies around HPN on every sunny weekend.

You're not heartless, just misinformed... didn't you know stock options and bonuses not only trump common sense but also invalidate physics? God bless the Job Creators.

 

[brokeflyer]

it was the union's fault.

 

[billybob]

Nja pilot would have had in on the centerline

 

[gret]

Last two comments are classless and both of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

People died and and you are promoting an agenda?

OHGOON....not sure what you are saying, but hopefully it is something other than the way way I read it. I have confidence in you!

 

[johnnyride24]

That makes no sense..length of runway had nothing to do with it..he went off the side, not the end..it could have been 10,000ft long and outcome probably would have been the same assuming hangar and everything was in the way of his path

Short Runway with a steep Instrument Approach.

You have no room to come in fast or high.

I take my comment back on closing the airport to turbine powered. Ban everyone except for NETJETS and FLEXJETOPTIONS. Let the Professional Fractional Pilots fly in to SMO.

 

[gc3059]

Steep Instrument Approach?????

 

[t-bone]

Steep Instrument Approach?????

Yup. ATC likes to clear you for the approach from 5000' inside DARTS (IIRC) and then the MDA is 503' above the airport. That makes for a steep approach if youre not expecting it. If you don't start down at the VDP, it's going go be tough to recover and remain stabilzed. Anyone know the weather reported at the time of their arrival?

 

[gc3059]

I was just trying to figure out why the previous post said only professional pilots should fly into KSMO. KSMO has circling minimums only, no straight in mins or VDP, I would think a professional would know that!

 

[shanes123]

I was just trying to figure out why the previous post said only professional pilots should fly into KSMO. KSMO has circling minimums only, no straight in mins or VDP, I would think a professional would know that!

there options pilots talking..KR told them to just land there dont ask any questions just trust him its ok..

 

[rettofly]

Yup. ATC likes to clear you for the approach from 5000' inside DARTS (IIRC) and then the MDA is 503' above the airport. That makes for a steep approach if youre not expecting it. If you don't start down at the VDP, it's going go be tough to recover and remain stabilzed. Anyone know the weather reported at the time of their arrival?

Had a REPO leg from LAX about 10 years ago in a CE560 in IMC.

ATC was very insistent about keeping the speed up as long as possible.

Kind of memorable, but we managed to get stabilized approach numbers across the fence.

 

[t-bone]

I was just trying to figure out why the previous post said only professional pilots should fly into KSMO. KSMO has circling minimums only, no straight in mins or VDP, I would think a professional would know that!

No reason you can't land straight in if you see the runway 1.7 miles from the threshold (not the MAP) and are in a position to maintain a stabilized approach.

 

[gc3059]

No reason you can't land straight in if you see the runway 1.7 miles from the threshold (not the MAP) and are in a position to maintain a stabilized approach.

What mins are you using?

 

[t-bone]

What mins are you using?

I'm using the circling minimums, and I'm using the height to determine how far from the threshold I need to see the runway to be able to proceed straight in.. Inside that point, it becomes a true circle. If I see the runway prior to that point, then my 'circle' looks straight in. Same with Aspen.

 

[gc3059]

I'm using the circling minimums, and I'm using the height to determine how far from the threshold I need to see the runway to be able to proceed straight in.. Inside that point, it becomes a true circle. If I see the runway prior to that point, then my 'circle' looks straight in. Same with Aspen.

There are two

 

[t-bone]

There are two

With and without CULVE? I'm not sure what you are saying.

 

[gc3059]

No reason you can't land straight in if you see the runway 1.7 miles from the threshold (not the MAP) and are in a position to maintain a stabilized approach.

My point is you cannot use (with CLUVE ) MDA and meet the stabilized approach criteria. 1.7 miles from the end of the runway is 2.5 DME, which is just outside of CULVE. So to shoot this approach straight in you would need to see the runway at 3.9 DME or 3.1 from the end of the runway, otherwise you have to circle.