Civilian or Military? You Decide

[Joshrk22]

Tough decision I guess... Would you rather fly civilian or do the military route. I've thought about all the possibilities; just civ, just mil, and now I'm thinking about doing the civilian and ANG thing.

What are the pros and cons for each type of flying? If you could do it all over again, what would you do?

You heard my decision (Airlines & ANG), I want to hear what everybody else thinks. I'm not too fond of the 10 year active duty, but I don't care for the airline's QOL either.

Thoughts...

 

[pilotyip]

Lots of not flying

This subject has been gone over a bunch of times; you can do a search. Remember you do not join the military service to fly, you join to serve your country to fulfill the needs of the President by flying. You serve at the pleasure of the President. No matter what you think of the President you will do his bidding. You will not fly that much in the Military unless you go to a conflict. There is tons of office duties and family separation. In 11 years of Navy Active duty I got 2,500 hours, 800 of it in 6 months during Vietnam, then averaged under 200 hrs a year. I was gone from home for nearly 4 years. Saw my wife and son from about about 11 months in three years. If you go into fly, you will have a 10-11 year obligation, which as an officer will include at least 3-4 years of not flying and doing office duties, or standing phone watches at a command center evening and weekends. Or in the Navy floating around on a boat not flying. It is not a lot of flying. BTW if you don't like the airlines or the mil 10 year thing, why do you want to fly for a living?

 

[frog_flyer]

kind of arrogant to say you've DECIDED to go ANG. you'll be VERY lucky if you get a slot through that route.

 

[FN FAL]

kind of arrogant to say you've DECIDED to go ANG. you'll be VERY lucky if you get a slot through that route.

Yea, I don't think flying for the military is one of those, "...and then" kind of decisions. It's something you have to have an aspiration to do.

 

[MarineGrunt]

The good thing about the Guard, is it is an excellent backup for an airline job. Times were getting a little tough for me lately, so I volunteered for a 60 day deployment. 2 hours after I sent the email, I received an assignment and will make MEGA bank $$. The 60 days would almost equal my first year regional pay. Also, if you live at your guard base, it would mean a lot more time home from the airline job. Too many great things to list about the guard, but if you have an opportunity to do it, you'd be foolish not to give it a try.

Remember though, service to your country comes FIRST. It isn't a flight club or an easy way to ME turbine time.

Good luck.

 

[Slice121]

If you need to ask, you should stay a civilian.

 

[FN FAL]

If you need to ask, you should stay a civilian.

that makes sense.

 

[McNugget]

I wanted to do Mil, dang eyesight isnt 20/20 uncorrected. Someone in my family did 30 years in the Air Force with no regrets, wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. You will have something to be proud of, and a great career you can stay with if the airlines keep going down the toilet. Hopefully you won't have to worry so much about getting "furloughed" (forced out) in the mil, unless they downsize. I think the Reserves/ANG is a great idea to get the best of both worlds.

On the other hand, at 28 I have gone from cfi, charter, and RJs to my 2nd heavy jet and had a friggin good time doing it. If you are just looking for the big bucks and a good lifestyle, this probably isn't the career for you. You just can't count on it as a given anymore. There are just too many airlines whose management has run them into the ground.

If you really like flying, have an open mind, and can live with getting furloughed (been through that twice), then stick with it. Civ or Mil, you just might end up going places and seeing things in the world that most people never get a chance to do.

Now back to your regularly scheduled flaming, bashing, and lashing brought to you by the members of Flightinfo.com

See ya!

 

[TankerDriver]

Hopefully you won't have to worry so much about getting "furloughed" (forced out) in the mil, unless they downsize. I think the Reserves/ANG is a great idea to get the best of both worlds.

See ya!

Which they are! At least the USAF. Not pilots though, right now, but they're letting us out of active duty left and right.

Josh,

I recommend trying to get a guard slot, but like people have already said, they're not easy to get. I'm separating from AD to the ANG within the next few months. Of course, I'm already rated, which makes it a lot easier to land a job with a unit. Off the street slots are limited.

Since you're debating being a commercial pilot vs. being a pilot in the military, I can tell you have no clue what life is like as a pilot military, because they are two different worlds (I'm talking active duty AF). You don't just fly a 3 day and go home. Flying is your second job and doing your duties as an officer (most likely admin/desk work) are primary. Depending on the airframe, you may only fly 2-3 times a month. I know guys who struggle to get out of the office to fly once a month to stay current. Please do your homework and find out exactly what being a pilot in the Air Force, Army, Navy, Marines, whatever service you're interested in, is like before making the move. Yes, the military provides job security to an extent, but don't do it for the job security alone.

 

[pilotyip]

Comment on job security in the military, they downsize just like every other company. Look at the Post Viet Nam era, massive RIF's, look at the "Cold War Peace Dividend" more RIF's. When the mil gets ahead on headcount, they also use the promotion boards to reduce their numbers in their ranks. In fact Money Magazine a few years back rated the Military Officer as low of the lowest job security rating of any job. Right now their is a conflict we hear about Stop Loss, but four years from now, it could we are overstaffed, bye bye guys.

 

[Gorilla]

Stay civilian. Please.

 

[Goose Egg]

Civilian for me. I have a lot of respect for those who choose to serve their country in the military, and I think it's great that people are able to get thier flight training courtesy of the DOD. However, even if I could have passed the physical (vision--I'm about 20/200 uncorrected), just being in the military really wouldn't be my thing. This is not to say that if my country really needed me, I wouldn't join up somehow. But it's not the case right now.

-Goose

 

[Benhuntn]

28 yrs, no regrets. retired with 7800 hrs (you do the math). Flew to 162 cities in 142 countries. I had ONE staff tour of 4.5 yrs. Family seperations were common, money was ok. I was able to get hired by a "regional" still logging my instrument time and landings in hopes of getting on with the majors. I make more money now 3rd yr pay than I did on active duty.

 

[Wolf King]

Comment on job security in the military, they downsize just like every other company. Look at the Post Viet Nam era, massive RIF's, look at the "Cold War Peace Dividend" more RIF's. When the mil gets ahead on headcount, they also use the promotion boards to reduce their numbers in their ranks. In fact Money Magazine a few years back rated the Military Officer as low of the lowest job security rating of any job. Right now their is a conflict we hear about Stop Loss, but four years from now, it could we are overstaffed, bye bye guys.

Very true.

 

[Joshrk22]

kind of arrogant to say you've DECIDED to go ANG. you'll be VERY lucky if you get a slot through that route.

When you have more than 40 hours and have done the military thing you can come talk to me. For now keep your a$$hole, I mean mouth, shut.


Next TankerDriver,
I do know what military pilots go through as a I know a few. My question is not really what I should do, but what are the benefits of each. For example, how do the AD guys like their life? Is it miserable? Not how much time they get to fly, I already understand that.

Finally, for the rest... I do know/have an idea what it takes to get an ANG spot off the street; don't say it can't be done because it can. With the ANG, you can apply to an unit anywhere in the US to get a spot. Like I said before, I wasn't here really to ask what I should do (sorry if I came across like that) but what does everyone think of the type of lives they have.

 

[Espalda Mojado]

Don't waste your time in the military, just get your ratings as fast as possible and get a job. Seniority is everything, amigo!

I agree it is arrogant to assume that you can just get a job with the air guard.

I think what you should do is stick to the civilian route and try to get a scholarship to help pay for your flight training.

If you are as lazy as your profile indicates, just go to www.gulfstreamacademy.com and you will make your dreams come true!

 

[Swass]

I don't think you know how difficult it is to get a spot, hotshot. You must be the proverbial stick.

Brightspark

 

[TankerDriver]

When you have more than 40 hours and have done the military thing you can come talk to me. For now keep your a$$hole, I mean mouth, shut.


Next TankerDriver,
I do know what military pilots go through as a I know a few. My question is not really what I should do, but what are the benefits of each. For example, how do the AD guys like their life? Is it miserable? Not how much time they get to fly, I already understand that.

Finally, for the rest... I do know/have an idea what it takes to get an ANG spot off the street; don't say it can't be done because it can. With the ANG, you can apply to an unit anywhere in the US to get a spot. Like I said before, I wasn't here really to ask what I should do (sorry if I came across like that) but what does everyone think of the type of lives they have.

Well, you can ask 20 people on AD what life is like and get 20 different answers. Everyone has their own situation and their own opinion. I can say that life is not bad at all as a tanker pilot on AD in the USAF (right now), if you can get past all the BS and focus on the important things as an officer and a pilot. We do deploy a lot and spend lots of time away from home, but that's the job and the desert deployments are slowing down a little bit anyway. I honestly don't mind deploying since that is when I get to do the job I came in to do and not stare at a Dell and answer phones 8 hours a day. Staff jobs and office duties are going to be inevitable unless you're that weasel that always has an excuse and seems to get out of everything that comes up (but always land the good trips to Turkey, South America, Hawaii, etc... gotta love those guys!). It is up to you to be proactive and go for the job you want to avoid getting the job noone wants.

I know quite a few guys that have been passed over 2 or 3 times for assignments because they want a 3rd flying assignment and AFPC won't give it to them. They're all Majors or close to pinning on Major coming up to their 10 year commitments and AFPC wants to put them in a staff job. A few of them have said they'll separate if they can't get another flying assignment. What kills me is that the DoD is willing to give pilots a bonus to stay in at their 10 year point ($125,000 for another 5 years), but yet won't give'm another flying assignment. Why not just call it an "officer bonus" because once you do a staff tour for 3-4 years as a Major, they're going to throw you into a DO or CC position afterwards where you'll be flying about once a month. I work very closely with my DO and CC in the job I have and see how swamped they get in the office. It is very hard for them to get out and fly.

As far as the ANG goes, most units prefer to hire from their own state. I will tell you that the unit I got hired to was 100% manned and told me that being from the state and already rated in the aircraft was the two criteria one had to meet to even be called to an interview. Of course off the street slots are a bit different, but it still helps to be from that state. ANG slots are not a dime a dozen. Yes, it is possible, but you could consider yourself extremely privileged to get a lot off the street, especially landing a job at a unit on the other side of the country. They're going to ask you, "Why us?" and if you say, "Well I applied to 50 other units in the US.", they're going to laugh and move on.

 

[Joshrk22]

Well, you can ask 20 people on AD what life is like and get 20 different answers. Everyone has their own situation and their own opinion. I can say that life is not bad at all as a tanker pilot on AD in the USAF (right now), if you can get past all the BS and focus on the important things as an officer and a pilot. We do deploy a lot and spend lots of time away from home, but that's the job and the desert deployments are slowing down a little bit anyway. I honestly don't mind deploying since that is when I get to do the job I came in to do and not stare at a Dell and answer phones 8 hours a day. Staff jobs and office duties are going to be inevitable unless you're that weasel that always has an excuse and seems to get out of everything that comes up (but always land the good trips to Turkey, South America, Hawaii, etc... gotta love those guys!). It is up to you to be proactive and go for the job you want to avoid getting the job noone wants.

I know quite a few guys that have been passed over 2 or 3 times for assignments because they want a 3rd flying assignment and AFPC won't give it to them. They're all Majors or close to pinning on Major coming up to their 10 year commitments and AFPC wants to put them in a staff job. A few of them have said they'll separate if they can't get another flying assignment. What kills me is that the DoD is willing to give pilots a bonus to stay in at their 10 year point ($125,000 for another 5 years), but yet won't give'm another flying assignment. Why not just call it an "officer bonus" because once you do a staff tour for 3-4 years as a Major, they're going to throw you into a DO or CC position afterwards where you'll be flying about once a month. I work very closely with my DO and CC in the job I have and see how swamped they get in the office. It is very hard for them to get out and fly.

As far as the ANG goes, most units prefer to hire from their own state. I will tell you that the unit I got hired to was 100% manned and told me that being from the state and already rated in the aircraft was the two criteria one had to meet to even be called to an interview. Of course off the street slots are a bit different, but it still helps to be from that state. ANG slots are not a dime a dozen. Yes, it is possible, but you could consider yourself extremely privileged to get a lot off the street, especially landing a job at a unit on the other side of the country. They're going to ask you, "Why us?" and if you say, "Well I applied to 50 other units in the US.", they're going to laugh and move on.

Thank you for a mature answer to my question. Unlike the rest of the flamebaiters...

 

[Slice121]

I wasn't flame baiting earlier. I may have misinterpreted what you wrote, but communication skills are important for an officer...you may want to remember that. You came across initially like most have already said you did.