Citationshares - My First 100 Days

[PIGHEEL]

Folks, been offline.

Some answers:

a. wearing suits in hot wx - answer is yes. However, it is only to meet the owners and walk them to the plane. Usually hotter in the jet getting atis and clnc.
Usually, each pilot is in the FBO, waiting for the owners. If they come in, and then drive out to the jet, we walk out to the ramp with our coat on, get them going into the cabin, and depending on the number of bags, take off the coats to load the aft baggage compartment.
Jackets off in flt. Jackets off on exit, and owner escort to the FBO.

b. VFR at 8500'. No, not the norm. Unusual circumstances. Chances are it was a CJ1 crew who launched out of White Plains last Friday. Terrible wx, and in coordination with ATC (if it's the a/c that I think you're referring to), the plan was worked out. I launched just after them (around 5:30 local) to Nantucket, and the wx hadn't quite made it there yet.

c. LAX basing. Don't know. Do know that CS seems to have expanded their bases (I'm a new hire, and have moved to Denver). Do know that if you and CS agree on a position, they'll try and work with you.

d. Training. I'm retired Navy. Only civilian training I had was at Flight Safety for initial. Then, flew two tours with a Bravo standards Capt (IOE), and then on my own.

e. Bidding - isn't any that I know of. Sked is Tues - Monday or Thurs - Wed.
vacation time - not on bids, but need to put it in early enough.

f. Pay - plenty of other posts on that, so won't say much except it appears good.

Best to all. PIGHEEL

 

[Safetycheck]

Updates?

Pigheel:

Do you have any updates on Citationshares? How are they doing with regard to aircraft deliveries and sales?

I think you have started a very productive and informative post. Please disregard the postings of the depraved individuals and continue this thread!

SC.

 

[Turbinehead]

Did you work for Netjets?

Pigheel...

Did you used to work for Netjets?

IF so, how does CS compare with Netjets from your experience so far?

 

[PIGHEEL]

Some answers:

a. A/C sales and deliveries - best to ask Dan Smith on that one. Appears that we are still getting at least one new a/c per month, which has been discussed in other posts. Seems Excels are being accelerated (deliveries).

b. Updates on CS - new indoc classes for new aircrew still being held (which seems to mean hiring is taking place).
Dan Smith would have the best updates on hiring, class schedules at Flt Safety, etc.


c. Turbin - just retired fm the Nav'.

Best to all. PIGHEEL

 

[Skyking650]

To extend the comments of Pigheel, Citationshares is doing very well and as a matter of fact has had to take an additional Excel on lease to fill in as ordered aircraft are delivered.


Look us up in FBO's everywhere, we are easy to see, just look for the best dressed flight crew in the building. I am always available to answer any questions from folks who are considering Citationshares as a career move.

Also, our call sign is "fivestar", and Im always happy to squak with anyone who wishes conversation on a discrete frequency in flight.

Thanks again, and good luck to everyone.

Jedi

 

[dimly lit]

"best dressed"?? I know that desk jockey aviation managers and inferior pilots like to think it is so, but the fact that you wear a wool coat in the summer with temps in the 90's does not make a better pilot. I have flown with pilots who were extra scrupulous about always being the "best dressed" who sucked as pilots, and I have flown with guys who couldn't seem to keep their shirt tucked in and had the plumber crack problem going who were among the most competent pilots I have flown with. "Best dressed" is a scheme used by marginal fractionals and charter outfits to cover up deficiencies or to try to make it look like "we are different" than the competition. We should not be out trying to emulate airline pilots in the way we dress, our jobs don't even come close to the type of job that airline pilots do so why do we have to dress like them. OUr uniforms should reflect the type of job we do and the environment we work in. That means cooler dress in the summer (leave the jacket at home) and more realistic winter wear. I'll bet you guys really look professional with sweat pouring off your face on the ramp at vegas when you greet your owners. I pity you that you are forced to work under such stupid rules, you should not try to make it seem that you are better than others by trumpeting this fact.

 

[Timebuilder]

I know an owner that insists that his pilots wear the shoulder boards on the epaulets. He says a professional appearance is a part of what he is paying for. Although we manage and fly his jet for him, we don't have his plane on the certificate, and we don't wear those pieces on our shoulders when flying in the US.

You have to remember that this is a service business. Customers expect the trappings of our profession. At our place, it's a white shirt, tie, and dark pants.

I'd bet a box of Krispy Kremes that there are focus groups where people say they will feel willing to regularly fly in a plane flown by the pilots in "picture number four", the guys in the uniforms.

I'll also guess that these same reasons dictate the clothing worn at Delta, United, etc.

 

[Skyking650]

Dimly,

Your post makes no sense. First you state you know well dressed pilots who can't fly, then you state plummers crack pilots who are great, then you state that the clothes don't make the pilot, so why not look good and at least fool some of the people?


Want to know what I think sucks, F.O.'s wearing captains bars, ugly 70's style pilot ties, and 8 day work schedules.

As for the Delta Uniforms, they are without a doubt the cleanest looking airline pilots in the industry and while it has been a long standing tradition for airline pilots to look "military" and wear silly hats and stripes, they have the most business looking uniform around. I also believe that Delta passengers feel alittle more comfortable from the first impression of a well dressed flightcrew..not a shirt out plummers crack.

To end my input on this subject, a person who is as poorly dressed as Dimly states wearing a CitationShares uniform would surely be consulted about his/her appearance, and rightly so!

Jedi

 

[CCDiscoB]

Uniforms and Skills

We all know uniforms and flying skills have nothing to do with each other. A sharp looking uniform to me says one thing, professional. When TWA was still operating and I was traveling to St. Louis, I saw a reflection of how the company was doing, sloppily dress pilots. I couldn’t believe how bad they looked. Northwest isn’t much better. I flew in a military DC-8 charter once, and the FE came back to the passenger area, one look at him and I started saying a Hail Mary. Delta pilots are the sharpest dressed pilots. I wonder if that’s why I like to fly with them the most, hummmm. If CitationShares told me to look sharp, I’d tell them that I was going to anyway.

 

[dimly lit]

clothing makes the pilot

Ok, so I have more strongly felt ideas about this than others. I only put in the plumbers crack example to bracket the extremes that I have seen and to make my point that there is no correlation in my experience with uniform and pilot skills. Sure the owners would like to see us dressed up like idiots wearing stupid attire that does not suit the weather conditions. They can organize a focus group and let the owners vote on the uniform they would like to see and nearly every time they will pick the generalissimo outfit so that we look like the bellman at the Ritz. The problem is that they do not understand or care about the conditions in which we work, that is why they sign up for fractional, so they don't have to care about us (fair enough, that's why I have a job). They would probably also choose if given the choice to be able to fill up the airplane with unsecured baggage, with stuff blocking the emergency exits. The company cannot allow this however because it would not be safe or legal. Just as they stand up to the owners in the cause of safety they should stand up to them on our behalf to allow us to wear sane clothing that matches the weather conditions. I say again WE ARE NOT AIRLINE PILOTS, so comparing us to airline pilots means you miss the point. Airline pilots (major airline not commuter) stay in climate controlled environments to a much greater extent than we do and thus can comfortably wear whatever getup is prescribed for them.

Pilot attire remains a way for struggling upstarts (pilot and company wise) to separate themselves from the established companies ("look at us we win the best dressed pilot category of the owner survey") this is done with little effort on management's part and a little pilot suffering is not a big problem. If they really want to be like the airlines, then they should train their pilots like the airlines do. That of course would cost too much, and we haven't had a big fractional accident yet so everything must be ok.

In these postings I refer to no particular fractional, but I will say that the company I work for has outstanding training and committment to safety which was lacking at places I worked previously that used the best dressed stuff to smokescreen their deficiencies in other areas.

 

[flx757]

Dimly lit,

I don't believe that CitationShares is attempting to "smokescreen their deficiencies" with their pilot's attire. They are simply attempting to project a certain image to their owners and potential owners. Perhaps I can understand your attitude and bitterness that result from your past experiences. But, you don't see CS pilots on this board b!tching and moaning about the company's policies, lack of training or commitment to safety, etc., or any other "stupid rules". That should tell you all you need to know.

 

[CCDiscoB]

Yo Dimly,

Did you mean to imply that CitationShares is the "struggling upstart" because that's the way it came across. I wonder if others share your view. Just curious if it's worth thinking about a career with them.

For other CitationShares pilots, are there plans for other aircraft besides their small jets. Will they every get the X?

Reading Dimly's post reminds me of formal night on a cruise I was on. There's always a few people that won't dress up regardless of what the policy is.

 

[dimly lit]

clothes

No,no,no,no. Do not take what I am saying as in any way cutting down any other specific fractional. I apologize for being so long winded about saying that it is stupid to wear a dark wool coat when it is 100 degrees on the ramp. I speculated to long about why that anyone would want to torture a pilot by making them submit to such a stupid policy. I have no gripes with any company; they are what they are and probably have more in common than not. If you like the way cs does things or flex or whatever do whatever you think is your best bet. I really am sorry for starting this whole thing.

 

[FracPilot]

Want to know what I think sucks, F.O.'s wearing captains bars, ugly 70's style pilot ties, and 8 day work schedules.

Tom, since you feel so strongly about these issues, shall we air your dirty laundry and let everybody know WHY you feel this way?

By the way, your insecurity is showing based on your comment about FO's wearing four stripes.

 

[Turbinehead]

Dirty laundry

Great uniforms generate a lot of dirty laundry.

Go ahead, air the dirty laundry...we all want to hear it.

Hey, if the wacky theory holds true that has been presented here...that inadequate pilots dress to impress and cover up inadequacies.... well, then... Flight Options pilots would be wearin Tuxedos to work, wouldnt they.

 

[Skyking650]

I'm not going to waste my time, you have lots of laundry yourself, so does your company. Out of respect for many friends of mine who still work there, I have remained silent..I suggest you do the same.

The choice is yours.

Jedi

 

[Dep676]

Hey turbinehead what's your beef with Options. Every post that you make you seem to be bashing them. Did they turn you down or something? You want everyone else to spill it. I think you should start first.

 

[fogrunner]

By the way, your insecurity is showing based on your comment about FO's wearing four stripes.

Clearly you don't know the man very well..

 

[emb1452002]

There is nothing wrong with a FO wearing CA stripes. In fact AA and Eagle have a provision for displaced CA to continue to wear their 4 stripes. I was displaced last Dec, but now wear 3 stripes....but have wore my CA boards. Trust me....you are treated differently by captains when you have 4 stripes. All I am saying is there should be no problem with this as mentioned earlier. You all know you felt **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good when you first put the CA stripes on......don't deny it.