CitationShares-Barry Lambert

[fracflyer]

I guess 2 of those weeks are for aircraft training.

By the way was in aspen the other day and a CS XL circled to the other runway. I talked to the pilot and asked if you guys were aproved for that by the company. He said you were and you do it all the time?

Was he right? Do you guys really circle to aspen all the time?

Why would we need approval to circle to the other runway?

Have done it and not a big deal in good weather.

I've seen Air Wisconsin do it in their BAE-146.

 

[Chewbacca]

the xl's apu is not approved for un-moniterd use, you have to be with the aircraft at all times. seems the generator kicks offline some.

 

[guido411]

I am very happy here, happy with the sched. and with quality of life. They treat you well enough not to need any representation but your own. I had enough of that BS at ACA.

this is all my opinion, so blast away if you must! =P

cheers

Chewy,

It's funny, this is EXACTLY the attitude many FLOPs pilots had a year or two ago. Now a union drive is underway. Hope you don't end up in our shoes, but like most aviation entities, they don't go very long or grow very large without a union showing up on campus. Remember, the BEST time to implement a union might be when BOTH sides are on good terms.

 

[rumpletumbler]

The real question here is "WWBD?" Can someone please e-mail him a link to this thread? To circle or not to circle. While ago I thought 'hazelnut creamer is fattening, WWBD?' and then I dumped about 10 tablespoons in my coffee. Of course I was just hoping that was what BWD because that is how I desired my coffee to taste. To have 1000 calorie coffee or 0 calorie? WWBD?

 

[guido411]

Glad I'm not flying with you!

CS circles into aspen.... it's totally safe, I've done it myself (daylight only and within the minimums for the circle). much more safe in my book than landing at that altitude w/ a tail wind and possible wet runway as well. the circle is certified by terps to be safe and doable. so stop your whining.... it's safe.

This "they're all pussies" attitude is a killer. Terps also has surveyed and shown the straight in approach to be safe, if you do it right. But tell that to the ghosts of the Gulfstream crew and pax that smacked the hill to the west of centerline for 16. If the weather is marginal I'd rather end up alive at APA than kissing the ramp at ASE after scaring myself.

So the Cat C mins are 3 miles, would you circle in 3 miles? In light rain? What about 4? Maybe 5? Where do you draw the line? Does your company provide training for this procedure? Did you fly there with a check airman? No? I bet those BAe-146 crews get trained and signed off by a check pilot.

Lastly, we're only approved for a 10kt tailwind. I'd much rather land on 16 (uphill) with the tailwind than circle. Weigh the options, dude. If it's windy out of the north, sorry. If you can't say "NO" to an owner, you're gonna kill yourself, your crew, and your rich pax, and your company. Think about that next time you lose sight of the runway to the southeast on the circle.

 

[Anis]

What straight-in approach...?

Runway 16?

Are we still talking about ASE?

 

[Diesel]

Dude if you think circling into ase is safe you haven't flown in there enough.

 

[guido411]

What straight-in approach...?

Runway 16?

Are we still talking about ASE?

Yes, we're talking about ASE. But there IS no straight in approach for ASE. The approach I beleive is a VOR/DME-C (a circling approach due to high decent angles). We're just saying that landing 16, which can be done straight in if the field is in sight a long way out, is the safest, and in my opinion, the ONLY way into ASE unless you've had formal training.

 

[Anis]

Thank you...I definitely lack your perspective from where I sit.

Makes sense.

 

[learflyer]

I thought ASE was 15-33. Did they change it?

 

[tailhookah]

Guido8million.....

never called you or anyone a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**...stop putting words into my mouth. w/ wx at mins the only really safe way to execute a "stable" approach, via terps requirements is to circle. so if you want to dive and drive from upon high at the faf then I don't want to fly w/ you cowboy. the g bird that smacked the mountain or hill on final was low, at night and had other out of parameter things going on. if they shot the approach correctly we would still be privy to their drivel on this board..... but the key function to make that approach dangerous is to do it at night. i've done it at mins in daylight and it's perfectly safe. i also have seen the regionals do it as well. and let me tell you, they wouldn't be doing it if diesel is correct and it's soo dangerous. if the straight in was so safe then why are the airliners circling????

lighten up francis

 

[Diesel]

woah wait a second.

Let's just define here for a second.

Vor approach would put you on a "circle" dog leg for 15.

The circling I was talking about was for 33. Which is still nuts.

the reason the gulfstream crashed at ASE is because they NEVER had the runway, they were not CONFIGURED, they were too low for the missed approach, and get their itis screwed them.

Some airliners "mesaba and the other bae drivers" are specifically trained to land 33. They have specific training for their own approach for 33 and have specific sop's. The pilots flying the bae jet only do ase because you have to have qualifications and so on. I flew with a guy who was ase qualified in the bae and they did actual training in the aircraft for ase for 33.

The visual circle to 33 is nuts. Even the CS pilot I talked to said it was "interesting." He told me you lose the runway but pick it up again on the other side of the hill.

Me i'd rather land with a tailwind uphill. Or go missed and go to grand junction.

 

[M. St. Lawrence]

How did the question about Barry Lambert end up about circling approaches?

 

[XTW]

Caution! Caution! Caution!

Thread hijacking in progress!

X

 

[AA717driver]

Allright!

Keep talking about circling approaches to ASE and no one gets hurt!

The 146 is a different bird than any biz jet. AND, the crews are signed off on the ASE ops.

If we can't see the runway by the first fix after Red Table, we go around. Forget circling.TC

 

[Safetycheck]

Get your testosterone right

My budster told me that he is very keen on eye contact. YOu need to stare straight into his eyes at all times, he looks for that.

Do not make comments about rogaine minoxidil or hydrotestosterone he is very self concious about his do or lack thereof.

Also, he is a computer geek so strike up a conversation about gigabytes and yer in!

Tex.

Its Dihydrotestosterone DHT jackazz...that causes baldness and other problems.

The Doc.