citation shares

[stork]

I spoke with a CS Crew in depth a tour ago. They told me horro stories about long, long days with reduced rest. Like 16 hours with less than 8 off. They also said you could turn it down but you would be putting yourself at risk for later problems.

I suspect 91K might put an end to it but I was really suprised.

 

[English]

A little birdie told me that management comes down VERY HARD on employees that post anything negative about the company on this board. So, don't expect to get the straight scoop from any current employees, other than widely available information such as pay and benefits.

 

[Just Peachy]

91K...

I spoke with a CS Crew in depth a tour ago. They told me horro stories about long, long days with reduced rest. Like 16 hours with less than 8 off. They also said you could turn it down but you would be putting yourself at risk for later problems.

I suspect 91K might put an end to it but I was really suprised.

91k WILL put and end to it..... But the current crop of operators have until Feb 5th to comply.
And thats why all the fractionals will be hireing this year....

 

[Schrode]

I don't care WHO you work for, or what the rules say - Don't do it if you are TIRED! This just makes the job harder for us all. Any one that does 16 on 8 off should be reported to the FAA along with the dispatcher and the Company - the passengers should know as well. I don't know about this pilot, but I plan to live as long as I can. Remember, these are the same guys that say, "We don't need a UNION, what have they done for you guys?"

Well for one, I NEVER get a brief for less than 10 hours off! Even with that (12 or 14 off), if I am tired, we go nowhere - without fear of loosing my job. That alone is enough to justify a Union.

 

[Stinkbug]

I spoke with a CS Crew in depth a tour ago. They told me horror stories about long, long days with reduced rest. Like 16 hours with less than 8 off.

Our GOM states that a crewmember must be given at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period that precedes the end of a flight assignment. Also, our maximum duty day is 14 hours. I rarely exceed 13 hours, although 12 and 13-hour days are common. What your acquaintances described shouldn't have happened. I'm not saying the schedulers never screw up and ask us to violate the GOM, but all they had to do in that case was say no. They wouldn't have been penalized. I think they may have been exaggerating a little, anyway.

 

[Turbinehead]

Shrode...both applause and boos to you

Dont fly when you are tired? Yea, we aint goin out like that. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. Lemme hear an AMEN , Shrode.

However, the saying you would report a person to the faa who flew 16 and off 8...B.S...it is not illegal. It might be considered careless and wreckless if Johnny Cochran who can "put it down" on the bench if he's got you on the stand could make it look that way, however, it aint illegal according to part 91 my man.

And you dont need no stinkin' union.

Turb.

 

[Schrode]

Ok. I went too far, I'd never report a brother pilot to the FAA, but I would give him a word of caution.

I also agree to disagree about the Union. I prefer to have job protection in Aviation. Every major job in Aviation has it. There are too many swings, attitudes and personalities in Management to say any job is stable. Hard to hang your hat not knowing what the working conditions, pay and rules are for tomorrow. The Union brings at least a little stability, security and legal protections you don't have without it. But, prove me wrong - hope you got one of those great jobs that "don't need Union protection . . ."

 

[Live4flyng]

It's funny how the Naysayers of Unions aren't in a Union. Sometimes learning the hard way is the only way for these type of people.

I spoke with a Cessna mechanic this morning and we got on the subject of unions. He told me he was very thankful that he was unionized, otherwise he would have had to take a large pay cut just like all the managers and supervisors had to without any recourse. Textron, the parent company of Cessna is also parent to Citation Shares. As C/S grows and the bottom line becomes more important than the pilots happiness, they will try to squeeze more work out of them and give them less pay. If the pilot group isn't organized, they will suffer. But don't take my word for it, just hang out and watch history repeat itself over and over again.

 

[Anis]

Couple questions:

"As C/S grows and the bottom line becomes more important than the pilots happiness.."

Putting financials aside, exactly what IS the bottom line, in your opinion? And why would it be LESS important while a company is small, and MORE important as the company gets bigger?


"They told me horro stories about long, long days with reduced rest..."

What is your motivation?


"And thats why all the fractionals will be hireing this year..."

Should we infer that hiring is 'ramped up' at Fractionals to be in future compliance with 91k rest requirements?

 

[Live4flyng]

Putting financials aside, exactly what IS the bottom line, in your opinion? And why would it be LESS important while a company is small, and MORE important as the company gets bigger?

Since we are talking about a for profit organization, it's very difficult to put financials aside. The bottom line is profit/loss. If you study fractionals you might find that most have a loss in the beginning years. At some point the company will need to show a profit and profit growth. When that profit or loss isn't meeting expectations, the company will look for ways to reduce expenses. One of the easiest ways for a company to do this is through pilot salaries. Typically the 3 biggest expenses for an airline are equipment, fuel and pilot salaries. If the equipment has already been paid for and there isn't much control over fuel prices, what is left to target? If you don't believe me, just pick up a newspaper and read about airline pilots giving concessions almost daily. But don't take my word for anything I have said, just sit back and watch history repeat itself. If FLOPS is still around in 3 years and growing, I am willing to bet they will be unionized.