Citation Shares Vector

[FarginDooshbahg]

whoaa there fellas...

got one guy braggin about making 48K
got one guy braggin about 2 weeks vacation

stellar.

An' I'm braggin' 'cause I'm a dooshbahg. So there. What can you say about that?

bluepost..

No disrespect, either. Just whiling the day away waiting for anything good to happen.

 

[tailhookah]

All I meant to do was to post some facts on citation shares for the guys who've been asking questions about CSV... OK so I did give a dig or two to the NJA guys but you guys deserve it and you guys are such an easy target... all you do is complain about your jobs and your company. I'm just trying to be happy about having a job right now that pays better than the regional RJ fleets who are gobbling up the good paying jobs... one thing I've noticed... it's always easy to compare your job to someone elses and think they have it better... next thing you are working at that job and complaining just as much as you did before you got there....

I don't live for this board... it gives me something to do on my "on" days when I'm away from home. I don't live for this negativity like some do.

Oh and just for the record... I never bragged about 48k a year... i said it was not bad for a F/O these days....
As for counting per diem into my pay i have point to make.... show me a professional pilot who spends all of his per diem and I'll show you a pilot who doesn't exist... let's face it... we are all cheap bastards!

I also hope the NJA guys get your big contract... then we may get a bump up in pay and will certainly get a lot of your owners after they cancel the contract with you when you "bump" up their monthly maint. fees and they pull out for breech of contract and come to us...

 

[Turbinehead]

Bluepost where your info comes from

What about attending FSI on your days off and not getting paid for them?

What about when after about year 3 your daily rate is more then $350 a day, so you are making less to work more?

What about your illegal 135 rest stating you are in rest from shut down to your next duty period, no matter how long it is? You have standby for 20 hours and you are available for 14 the min they call you to show.

What about your sick time? Is it paid or not? Depends on how good you are on your knees.

When do you get 2 weeks vacation? Oh...thats right NEVER!

What about your OT pay...there is none

Not trying to rain on anyones parade, but you post here and it is open season. Netjet pilots have it as good or better then any of the other fractionals...but why do they bitch so much? Because THEY CAN and won't be fired or passed over because of it....AND they are not willing to settle for what they and the rest of the fractionals have....twice as much work and half pay!

Bluepost, if you working for Newtjets, where do you get all this info about Citationshares.

It sure does sound like you have an axe to grind against CS. What, did they turn you down for a job there?

T

 

[bluepost]

I was at Netjets before CS started I think, or at least close.


The reason I know so much about CS is that I like to do research to see how we truly compare the other fractionals, airlines, corporate etc. At first glance it appeared the grass was always greener at the other fractionals...or at least it seemed that way because it APPEARED that the other fractional pilots were pretty content. Upon closer inspection I started asking myself WHY....their deal is not much better than ours, if at all.

I don't judge any single pilot....but as a whole NJA has some of the weakest guys around....guys that PFT'd, guys that stayed here during the hiring boom, guys that commuted hundreds or thousands of miles for 27k, etc. Again not bashing anyone individually, guys had families, etc....BUT as a whole there is some real weakness here....but many of these same guys have seen the light, and are now fighting, if these guys can see the light, why can't the rest of the fractionals having a somewhat less weak group overall?

What I (and many other NJA pilots) are trying to accomplish is to point out the fact that using your same pilot skills, you will make probably 30-40% of the $$$ over your career that you would flying for an airline, or about 50-60% of the money you would make flying for a quality corporate department.

WHY? The answer is because NETJETS pilots first accepted those wages over 10 years ago, and then other fractionals came and accepted slightly higher wages, but with less benefits/protections (generally)...and so it went. So today there is about 3500 of us, all doing almost the exact same job, soon to be under the same work rules, flying these airplanes twice as many hours, and into some of the toughest airports in the world, using every inch of performance available to get the job done.

I ask why should we even be CLOSE to being satisfied with what we have? And with all due respect, guys like Turbine Head and clan, who don't even work for the fractionals have some guts bashing us about what they obviously have never experienced first hand. I don't voice my opinion about Vietnam, being black, or over on the airline board....because I have never been, or have pretended to know anything about any of those. I read, I study, but I still have never experienced, and that will forever place me in a corner of outsiders where I belong.

A rising tide lifts all boats, lets lift all our salaries and working conditions, lets leapfrog each other right into the NBAA + 40% numbers where we belong. Post the facts about where we work.....good and bad. Being a fractional pilot may be better then many general jobs out there, but it still sucks compared to most other experienced pilot jobs. Lets do our part to preserve our segment of the profession.

 

[Turbinehead]

Answer the question, Bluepost

I was at Netjets before CS started I think, or at least close.


The reason I know so much about CS is that I like to do research to see how we truly compare the other fractionals, airlines, corporate etc. At first glance it appeared the grass was always greener at the other fractionals...or at least it seemed that way because it APPEARED that the other fractional pilots were pretty content. Upon closer inspection I started asking myself WHY....their deal is not much better than ours, if at all.


A rising tide lifts all boats, lets lift all our salaries and working conditions, lets leapfrog each other right into the NBAA + 40% numbers where we belong. Post the facts about where we work.....good and bad. Being a fractional pilot may be better then many general jobs out there, but it still sucks compared to most other experienced pilot jobs. Lets do our part to preserve our segment of the profession.

Just tell us the source of your "RESEARCH." This will lend some credibility to your otherwise arrogant and inflamatory remarks about CS Vector.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

Currious

One of our guys who was canned from NJA went over to CS (CS has hired almost every pilot fired from NJA BTW) and flew for over a year and got fired as well.

The reason: He didn't want to attend sim recurrent on his days off and not get paid. Guess he forgot he didn't have a Union Contract. With all the probs here at NJA, at least the 2 X 6 (12) days a year in sim are on thier time, not mine.

Does CS also do thier company recurrents on days off as well? Ours is another 6 days from the schedule once a year.

 

[kingtut]

Griz: I must disagree. I do not think the BH is gonna sink anymore seed money into the aviation business in the forseeable future. At least not until the next real aviation up cycle.
Aviation has not been the bright shinning star that BH invisioned. FSI and NJets not setting any world record profits at the moment.

 

[Live4flyng]

King

Griz: I must disagree. I do not think the BH is gonna sink anymore seed money into the aviation business in the forseeable future. At least not until the next real aviation up cycle.
Aviation has not been the bright shinning star that BH invisioned. FSI and NJets not setting any world record profits at the moment.

I guess the NY Times has been lying to us again, I just read that the aviaition side of BH blew away the investment side. BH didn't seed the operation of NetJets anyway, it was already growing at an enormous pace before BH bought the cash cow at a steeply discounted price. Fractionals don't wait for up cycles, most of the people who ride in the back of these planes aren't affected much by the economy. I agree that I don't think BH is going to sink any money into the operation because they don't have to. There is so much money, they are starting fractionals in every **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** country they they can sell an airplane to. They would rather grow their operation, than pay the pilots who made everything happen.

 

[tailhookah]

just the facts

As quoted by: Brnjetfuel"One of our guys who was canned from NJA went over to CS (CS has hired almost every pilot fired from NJA BTW) and flew for over a year and got fired as well. "

Maybe this guy just can't follow the rules... I see a pattern here. I don't have any sympathy for him.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

As quoted by: Brnjetfuel"One of our guys who was canned from NJA went over to CS (CS has hired almost every pilot fired from NJA BTW) and flew for over a year and got fired as well. "

Maybe this guy just can't follow the rules... I see a pattern here. I don't have any sympathy for him.

Yea, but to hear BrnJetFuel tell it, it was CS fault because they made him go to training on his days off. What a dooshbahg.

 

[kingtut]

I've been doing this for a long time and have learned to wait and see. Still do not see BH poppin' down anymore money for aviation ventures. I am beginning to wonder what the plan is for NJ. Hard times for WB. Personal issues may drive him to depart the pattern early. He is past Mid 70's. Already said his money goes to a foundation.

 

[On Your Six]

Anyone out there fly the CJ1 for CS? I have a friend who will be starting training on the CJ1. Can anyone give me an idea of the sorts of routes from a west coast base - maybe an example of a work week in terms of destinations hit and sectors per day? Just a rough example.

I personally would prefer the shorter hops (I don't have that luxury now)...

 

[Texasskicker]

How many fuel stops to W coast

CJ1 pilots, how do you handle trips from E to W coast with fuel? Do the passengers like sitting for 4 legs and all the hours it takes to go from left to right coast?

At CitationShares, can you choose what fleet you will be assigned to?

 

[crjdude]

CS domiciles

someone up top asked whether CS capn's are fly from home but CS fo's must commute to the domiciles. can anyone shed some light on this subject?


thanks.

 

[XTW]

At CS, your aircraft is assigned when hired. When upgrade time comes, you go where you are needed. It really doesn't matter, as the pay is the same for all three aircraft.

Both Captains and First officers must live, (no crashpads) within 120 minutes from their base. You pick, are not assigned, your base.