Citation Shares question

[650 driver]

I found CS not a very user freindly company from just my discussions with them.
Not every pilot lives close to one of the gateways, which requires a move with no financial assistance.
I personnally live in a city with major airlne service and could not justify a move just to start the 7 day tour on the airlines from one of there gateways.


650

 

[captboy2001]

how long does it usually take to hear from them...just sent them a resume? what kind of time r they looking for. i have 4700 tot 3100 in turbo prop and 25oo 121 pic....

 

[WrknStff]

Minuses I've heard.

I've talked with a few CS crews on the road and it seems the life is the same as everyone else. A couple minuses that seems to hurt their morale:

1) Non-seniority based upgrades means everyone has to play the politics game. Upgrades have more to do with kissing butt than performance.

2) Tips are not reimbursed.

3) If you fly through a meal and get crew catering your per diem is docked for it.

4) Training events come out of Your time, not the companies.

5) They don't seem to like the uniform jackets. (might have just been those two crews though)

6) Company is stickler about the domicile thing.

Things they like:

1) Pay is pretty good.

2) 7 and 7 is very nice (i don't think anyone starts their tours on a weekend).

3) Equipment.

 

[English]

DBCooper, and others looking for honest information about Citationshares;

As you know there is the good and bad about every company out there. Even the most highly regarded companies might have a reason or two why someone in the world might not want to work for them. As pilots, it's important for us to determine what the truth is about any particular company, so that we can decide what we can live with, and what we can't. The problem is, certain companies, such as CS, cannot stand having anything negative posted about them on public websites, such as this one.

I think you will get more accurate information about the company by meeting pilots on the road and getting their thoughts. CS pilots will not post the bad info here on flightinfo.com. In the very recent past, employees, and even their families, have been harassed for posting accurate info on this website about CS. If you want to know the truth about the company, just ask a pilot on the road. You will get a completely different picture of the company when you go this route, rather than reading the posts here. All in all I think CS is a great company, but not everyone is going to be willing to put up with some of their policies. If you want to have an accurate picture, go talk to some crews on the road.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

they used to hire into the left seat but not anymore evrybody goes to the right seat first. upgrades are based on merrit.

How fair is it to upgrade solely on merit? So basically you have to be a "company man" and not stand up for yourself when the company fuks you over.

A seniority list doesn't give you the right to make capatain. It gives you the oportunity. Your passing is up to you.

I agree, when a pilot's number comes up for upgrade, that does not immediately make that pilot an automatic captain, however, his/her seniority number should ensure that pilot his/her fair turn, regardless of managements personal feelings towards that pilot. For example, just because a pilot happens to be a "family man" and would rather be with their kids as opposed to flying 2 extra days for the company should not mean that he gets passed for upgrade when it's his turn. Seniority is the ONLY fair way to upgrade. Otherwise, most of the suckups upgrading will be pu$$ies who allow the company to run all over them and can't make descisions for themselves.

 

[DBCOOPER]

English-
Yea, yea, I know. I have a couple friends there at CS. I pick their brains, as I do with everyone I know around the industry. This website can sometimes be good to learn little tidbits that I didn't know before, especially about fractionals. (I never thought I would remotely think about going that route, therefore I'm not as familiar as I am with 121 ops.)

BTW, talking to pilots at certain companies doesn't always paint the actual picture either. There are way too many kool-aid drinkers out there, as you know.

 

[bravodude]

how fair is it to upgrade just because your number is up. you maybee a total idiot but if you pass a check ride then you are a capt. each one has its good and bad points.

 

[Guitar Guy]

how fair is it to upgrade just because your number is up. you maybee a total idiot but if you pass a check ride then you are a capt. each one has its good and bad points.

That is such a tough consideration. It would be wonderful if there was some objective, 100% accurate method to determine who should be a PIC. But there's not and like you say, seniority-based vs. company-determined systems have pro's and con's. I will say that at my last airline I did see several instances where someone who shouldn't have been a captain did NOT pass the Upgrade process. So sometimes the seniority system, for all its flaws, does work.

 

[Turbinehead]

DBCooper, and others looking for honest information about Citationshares;

In the very recent past, employees, and even their families, have been harassed for posting accurate info on this website about CS.

Do tell, do tell.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

how fair is it to upgrade just because your number is up. you maybee a total idiot but if you pass a check ride then you are a capt. each one has its good and bad points.

It IS fair, when your number is up, to be given the opportunity to attend upgrading training. Weather or not you pass the checkride is up to you, but seniority is the only fair way to give pilots their chance to go to upgrade training. If a pilot in upgrade training happens to be a total idiot, who cares. Sucessful upgrades are performance based; If that pilot who you think is an idiot happens to have the wherewithal to pass the oral and perform in the simulator, then that idiot has every right to be a captain. If a newly upgraded idiot captain gets out on the line and FO's start making complaints about him or his descision making abilities, then more than likely that captain will be dealt with by management and possibly retrained or removed from the seat. But at least he got his chance to attend upgrade, which is the fair thing to do.

I will say that at my last airline I did see several instances where someone who shouldn't have been a captain did NOT pass the Upgrade process.

I have seen that too. It all comes out in the wash. If he/she is truly an idiot with bad descion making/piloting skills, he/she will more than likely not pass upgrade, but still he/she was given the opportunity based on seniority.

I'm confident enough in my abilities that it wouldn't bother me if I happened to be paired up with the aforementioned "idiot captain" for a month. However, I personally wouldnt get along well with a captain that upgraded based on merit because he was a "yes man" brownnoser who never had enough backbone to stand up to the company when they try to force you to stay an extra 2 days.

 

[Publishers]

What it boils down to are there are people who feel better with the clump process and highly structured rules in a system that is for the most part arbitrary.

The others are more independent, singlular, and not really looking for a crowed to be a part of. They believe if they work harder and do a better job, they will be rewarded.

The first think anything that the second gets is because he kisses ass an is a company guy regardless of how good of a job he does. The second group thinks the first needs a nanny or someone else to think and speak for them.

You can see it on every thread on these boards. If you disagree you are a management puke for we all need protected from these greedy golden parachute seeking managers.

We are unhappy so let's take the time to make those that are happy equally unhappy with their lives.

 

[Hawkered]

I actually like that post Publishers! Now that's more like it man!!

So true.

 

[gunfyter]

Yeah, Publishers is right.

I think if your wife socializes with the DO's wife... By dog you deserve that upgrade ahead of everyone else who is senior to you.

If you GOLF with the VP of Operations every other Saturday... shouldn't you get that Check Airman's job so you can work all your days off collecting extended days pay while sitting at home on your scheduled work days?

They don't call it the A-TEAM for nothing.

 

[Publishers]

Well to take the other side of that-- just what is so great about seniority. What exactly does that mean, you were hired one minute before the next guy and so you should qualify ahead of them.

Just where is it written in the great big book that you deserve anything because you were on the property longer. Let's see the interview,

Heh Bob, why do you think you deserve the upgrade to Boeing Big Aircraft over Jim here. Oh you were the first in the door when we hired those 30 guys two years ago. Now that is a good reason why I should put you in charge of my new $35.0m Big Plane.

 

[transpac]

Heh Bob, why do you think you deserve the upgrade to Boeing Big Aircraft over Jim here. Oh you were the first in the door when we hired those 30 guys two years ago. Now that is a good reason why I should put you in charge of my new $35.0m Big Plane.

No one should ever be upgraded just because of seniority. But, its about the only fair way to determine who gets the first crack at demonstrating his or her fitness for an upgrade.