Citation Shares Message Board

[DBCOOPER]

Whoever posed as BARRY L is hilarious!! That's good stuff. As a CS pilot, I have said it before and I will say it again.....it's a good job. No need for a union yet.....other people I talk to agree. The same people are not opposed to unionizing if things start going downhill for us. It's that simple. The pilots from other companies that like to bash us simply have never worked for a company that treats their pilots well and hands out raises. I've never experienced it before coming here and I worked for 2 previous 121 carriers as a proud ALPA member. Sure there are some things that need to be improved but come on guys...how long has CS been around? 6 years I believe. Things have continually gotten better since i started here just over a year ago.

I don't see SWA pilots being bashed for not joining in with ALPA, and i guarantee these guys bashing CS for not unionizing have their app in with SWA. If you have a good internal thing going with management, don't screw it up if you don't have to. But to all you CS folks reading this, don't be silly and totally rule it out if the company starts pulling shi!. on us. So far so good!

 

[Diesel]

SWA has their own union

 

[DBCOOPER]

Yes they do. But my point is this....i keep hearing these guys at Netjets ranting and raging that CS should join up with the union and "fight the fight" as one big fractional union group. If we ever need to rise up against the CS management, I'm willing to bet it will be an in-house pilot union. Large unions, as we have all seen in the airlines....don't end up helping much. Individual company unions seem to work much better, aka SWA.

 

[Fozzy]

DB,
Seeing you are full of life and wanting to share the CS experience. Can you give us in detail how protected rest at CS works? I mean the real truth to how things work on the road?
While you are at it, share with us how upgrade works. You know, the who what and when.
Lastly, are you still going to training on your off days? Or have they finally lived up to their word???



IBT 1108 is not ALPA. :angryfire

 

[Cavpilot]

IBT 1108 is not ALPA. :angryfire

Amen to that!

 

[Humphreybogart]

What I don't understand is why the NJ people care about how management at CS treats us. It's none of their business. if you want to find out come here and work for us. They can't understand that we are happy with our life at CitationShares without having to "fight" for the cause and the things given to us by management without us having to rely on a worthless union. NJ people, just stay to yourselves and you little petty union rant and raves, and leave CS alone. We don't need you OR your union.

 

[Guitar rocker]

What I don't understand is why the NJ people care about how management at CS treats us. It's none of their business. if you want to find out come here and work for us. They can't understand that we are happy with our life at CitationShares without having to "fight" for the cause and the things given to us by management without us having to rely on a worthless union. NJ people, just stay to yourselves and you little petty union rant and raves, and leave CS alone. We don't need you OR your union.

Bogart, I could care less about your mgmt, how they treat you etc. Makes no difference to me, and your right...it is none of our business. But remember, regarding our "worthless union" and it's pilots......we got you all a nice raise. I know that is difficult for you to swllow and acknowledge, but many of your brothers have though.....even right here.

 

[Humphreybogart]

we got you all a nice raise.

So beat a dead horse, Rocker. Your people did NOT get us a nice raise, because IF they did, I would have seen the union dues being deducted from my paycheck. I'm sure your raise may have set the standard for what we received, but please don't say that NJ got us the raise.

 

[Cavpilot]

Your people did NOT get us a nice raise

You know what? I think it is great you guys and gals don't feel as though you need a union. No lie. I think it would be great to work for a company that treated it's employees with dignity and respect. I hope for your sake that conditions will remain the same at CS and you will never feel the need to organize.

Having said that... If you honestly think that your wages have nothing to do with what happened at NetJets, then you truely have a big dump in your pants.

 

[Humphreybogart]

If you honestly think that your wages have nothing to do with what happened at NetJets, then you truely have a big dump in your pants.

I guess you didn't read my complete post, did you CAV? Look at it again. By the way, why the immature statement at the end of your post?

 

[Cavpilot]

I'm sure your raise may have set the standard for what we received, but please don't say that NJ got us the raise.

May have set the standard? No. It most definitely set the standard. If we would have negotiated 85,000 at year five, CS would have probably given you 86,000. Fortunately for you and the rest of the CS pilots, your management team knew the right thing to do to keep the troops happy in regard to pay. I'm pretty sure that you are the only one over there that has yet to figure this out. Which segues to my next response...

By the way, why the immature statement at the end of your post?

There is a figure of speech called a "metaphor". It is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity (Princeton definition). Do you literally have a dump in your pants? I doubt it. However, you behave like a child that does (BTW, that is called a simile). Everyone else can smell what is going on, but you choose to ignore the truth and continue to play without any regard of the situation you are in.

Do you understand now?

 

[JustInfo]

I don't think the point is your needing to fight for something, the benefit would be to have it in writing. I think it is great if you are all happy with how things are and management is making good on their promises. I, like many in this business, have just seen things taken away at will as companies grow. I hope as much as you that doesn't happen to CS.

And trying to say your pay scale has nothing to do with the new Netjets scale just makes you look ignorant. It couldn't be more obvious.

Oh yeah, and DO NOT compare our union to ALPA, couldn't be a bigger insult!

 

[DO-82 driver]

I hope CS never votes in a union. We need to have the other side of the fence represented so protential new hires can compare companies.

CS has a far better new hires Domicile system

NJA gets paid to go to training events

NJA gets much better pay on Holidays

NJA gets uninterrupted rest periods....and not all rest periods are 10 hours turns!!!!

NJA has a better per diem/ food policy (even if it is 21 choices, we still don;t pay for them)

NJA pay nothing for our health care.

NJA gets a max of 75 days of accrued sick time

NJA gets reimbursed for tipping....we don't wash our coffee pots out in the FBO's men's room.

NJA pilots do not have to worry about duty days in excess of 14 hours.

NJA pays Union dues......for those who care about this...the OT I picked up in the month of January 2006 alone paid for my Union dues for the next 3 years!!!!!

NJA upgrades on seniority...not the "teacher's pet" method. And that came from one of the CS crew I met in APF recently.

CS will probably never fly anything more than Citation jets.......NJA has a Global influence.

And finally......NJA has a written contract....rules by which the pilot force AND Management MUST play by or they will big big $$$$$ for violations.

Bogart.....I eagerly await your response to these statements......please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Guitar rocker]

So beat a dead horse, Rocker. Your people did NOT get us a nice raise, because IF they did, I would have seen the union dues being deducted from my paycheck. I'm sure your raise may have set the standard for what we received, but please don't say that NJ got us the raise.

Bogart, NJA and it's pilots got you YOUR raise. Period. Tell you what, when our contract is up and we get our next raise, how much yah wanna bet that YOU too will be getting a raise shortly after that??? I'll buy what your saying right now, ONLY if your company gives you a nice healthy raise well before ours is up and your company hasnt seen or heard what kind of raise we are talking about down the road.

Bogart, when are you going to see the light dude and accept reality???

 

[Guitar rocker]

What I don't understand is why the NJ people care about how management at CS treats us. It's none of their business. if you want to find out come here and work for us. They can't understand that we are happy with our life at CitationShares without having to "fight" for the cause and the things given to us by management without us having to rely on a worthless union. NJ people, just stay to yourselves and you little petty union rant and raves, and leave CS alone. We don't need you OR your union.

Bogart, what I DONT understand is why you have to always rag on our union and it's pilots. Like I said, I dont care at all about your mgmt and how your treated there at CS....if your happy, thats what counts but it doesnt affect me in the least. Why cant you stop slamming on our pilot group? Just leave us alone, be happy with the raise we got yah and move on.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Bogart, what I DONT understand is why you have to always rag on our union and it's pilots. Why cant you stop slamming on our pilot group?

I am not slamming your pilot group. I do think unions suk. If anything, the NJ folk are constantly harassing the CS pilot group by trying to force their mighty union beliefs on us. You guys are stuck with the union, you choose to work at NJ, and it's great that you are happy, but maybe you're not really that happy if you need to preach on how much the union does for you. You have to sell yourselves on the fact that it's ok that union dues are taken out of your paycheck (minimizing) and I guess that they are going for something good. Then you look at CS and see we don't need to have to "fight" or pay a union for what we received and it makes you bitter, I understand.

I'm not slamming your pilot group. This post was started as a notice to CS people that a CitationShares message board was being formed. It says nothing about NJ in the title, but some of your brothers came in to this post and started ragging on us. What are your thoughts on that, Rocker? Maybe I'll start comming into the NJ posts and do the same. No, I'm not slamming your pilot group, it's the other way around.

 

[Stinkbug]

I hope CS never votes in a union. We need to have the other side of the fence represented so protential new hires can compare companies.

CS has a far better new hires Domicile system

NJA gets uninterrupted rest periods....and not all rest periods are 10 hours turns!!!!

NJA pilots do not have to worry about duty days in excess of 14 hours.

NJA pays Union dues......for those who care about this...the OT I picked up in the month of January 2006 alone paid for my Union dues for the next 3 years!!!!!

Bogart.....I eagerly await your response to these statements......please correct me if I am wrong.

Who told you that all our rest periods are 10 hours? On the contrary, I think I can count on one hand all the minimum rest overnights I've had in nearly three years with the company. Twelve to fourteen hours is much more the norm. And when there's no scheduled flying, I don't sit at the FBO...I sit at the hotel.

I have never worried about duty days in excess of 14 hours either...on the rare occasions when scheduling slips up and plans a day that will exceed it...a simple phone call solves the problem.

I'm glad you were able to work off your union dues in the month of January, however all of my overtime goes into my pocket. And about half my overtime I make while sitting at home.

I won't argue with you about any of your other points...you guys have a great thing going and I'm proud of you for what you accomplished. But both sides need to be represented here...

 

[Stinkbug]

If anything, the NJ folk are constantly harassing the CS pilot group by trying to force their mighty union beliefs on us.

I have to agree with Bogart on this one. It's quite often that what starts out as a friendly conversation with a NJ guy unwittingly turns into a chest-beating contest...usually starting with the NJ pilot asking leading questions he already knows the answer to...like "so do you all upgrade by seniority?", or "you're eating Subway? Don't you get crew meals?"...I often feel like the guy is trying to pick a fight with me over things which mean almost nothing to me in the grand scheme of things.

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that these are nice guys and they probably mean well...but it seems they can't understand that the points of comparison they're dwelling on are not significant enough to make me want to leave CS or unionize. As long as I've been with this company life has continually gotten better (even if you don't factor in the raises, although of course that was a huge boost), and I'm confident that that will continue. If it goes the other way, then I'm sure we'll all either vote with our feet or take action to bring about the necessary changes.

 

[JustInfo]

Yep, where would all the regionals be if they had gotten together a long time ago and set up their own union for only regionals. Then they wouldn't be either getting screwed by ALPA or be non-union and getting screwed by their company in pay so they can undercut everyone else. Six seater flying for 138 seat pay is my motto.

Now why would all the fractional pilots want to work together in this relatively new line of flying jobs....

That is probably why some are approaching you in that manner, they have good intentions. I can say I have never approached another CS or any other crew in that manner or with that intent and I apologize if you were.

 

[XTW]

This whole string is like a bunch of 2 year olds in a sandbox picking on each other to make themselves feel better. Grow up. If someone is unhappy about their own situation, then be an adult and change it. If someone is happy, leave them alone.


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