Citation question.

[Palerider957]

Hello Gents,

A quick question for the group. What is the difference between a Citation II and an SII?

We have a ISP and are wanting to move up a bit. Any reccemendations?

Thanks in advance.

 

[SCT]

SII has weeping wings and a little more power. If I remember right it was a true 390-400 knt versus 370 (II). Did the SII carry more???

 

[Charlie Brown]

The S II is sometimes referred to as a "heavy II" due to its ability to carry a bit more. It is abount 25-30KTS faster. Another difference is price, I believe the SII is a couple $100K more.

 

[Palerider957]

Thanks.

How well does the wet wing work? I'm not crazy about fluid for de-ice, but I guess it's good enough for Hawkwers.

Is the SII worth the extra money?

 

[Headwind]

The S-II has a different wing than the II, plus it uses alcohol rather than boots for de-ice. The engine is about the same, but you run higher temps. All this makes it outperform the II, but hot section inspections are much more expensive. Cessna replaced the S-II with the V that went back to the old wing and larger engines.

 

[Palerider957]

The S-II has a different wing than the II, plus it uses alcohol rather than boots for de-ice. The engine is about the same, but you run higher temps. All this makes it outperform the II, but hot section inspections are much more expensive. Cessna replaced the S-II with the V that went back to the old wing and larger engines.

OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the input.

 

[bailout]

palerider,. just get a X and be done with it..!

 

[ultrarunner]

If you're looking to move up from a I and want to stick with the long-wing Citations, you should consider the V or the V-Ultra. It's more money than a II or S-II but much more room..more performance and modern avionics.

 

[Palerider957]

I appreciate all of your responses.

 

[Igor]

flown both an while the SII was faster could carry more and go farther I was not a big fan of the weeping wing. depending on which one we flew we had 45 minutes or 1.5 hours of the anti ice in the tank. If you run dry that's it.If you fly in a lot of icing conditions you evenually will. Boots are better move up to the V or an ultra if you really need the load capability.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Get a Citation II with the branson mod. Will take care of all your needs.

 

[B1900FO]

Palerider,

I'd go for the S/II if I were you. It has the speed, the range, and it carries a bit more than a regular II.

As far as the de-ice (or more correctly, anit-ice) is concerned, don't let everyone here scare you. A local company I know has an S/II and they've had it for almost 10 years. I spoke with their pilot the other day and coincidently we began talking about the weeping wing. In 10 years, he just purchased his second barrell of alcohol. Remember, it's an anit-ice, not a de-ice so you spray it out before you hit the ice and it should last for awhile. Don't wait for the ice to accumulate before activating it.

The S/II does a solid 390kts all day, every day. It will go right to 370 at all weights unless the temperatures up there are extremely warm, which is a rare occurence.

The straight II is a great bird as well! The first hour fuel burn in the II is the same as the ISP from my experience.

If you have the extra money, go for the Bravo. I have flown the Bravo and have been VERY impressed with it's performance. It has the new engine so it's a bit more economical and almost as fast as the S/II. The Bravo will do 380 kts everyday. The Primus 1000 is a great system as well.

At any rate, good luck with your search. We all know the Citation line is amazing.

On a side note, you'll miss the ISP. No Citation I have flown has matched the flying quality of the I. Yeah it's slower than poop, but it flies the nicest of them all!

Ciao!

 

[stknrdr]

Because of people being leary of the weeping wing, the SII can be a good bargain in the marketplace for the speed and load abilities it has. If you have a wash company with a good sprayer, just hit it when you come back in from a trip where you used the system, which will be rare compared to the total use of the aircraft. You can get a lot of aircraft for a good deal in the SII, so I would seriously consider it if you're money conscious and are not going to be doing all your flying in the northeast only in winter. Best of luck

 

[gear_guy]

Don't wait for the ice to accumulate before activating it.

Did you fly the SII? Because that is not what FSI teaches. You need to be careful what you tell people to do. I have about 1000 hours in the SII. The aircraft is equipped with an ice detection system. When you get this light you are to activate the fluid. It was my operational experience that you definately did NOT want to activate the system before entering icing conditions b/c the TKS would freeze on you causing a bigger problem.

 

[Quimby]

S-II.......referred to as the "flying snow cone maker" by an EJA guy.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Did you fly the SII? Because that is not what FSI teaches. You need to be careful what you tell people to do. I have about 1000 hours in the SII. The aircraft is equipped with an ice detection system. When you get this light you are to activate the fluid. It was my operational experience that you definately did NOT want to activate the system before entering icing conditions b/c the TKS would freeze on you causing a bigger problem.

What does the flight manual say? That may be different than what FSI teaches, too.

Fly safe!

David

 

[puddlejumper]

What does the flight manual say? That may be different than what FSI teaches, too.

Fly safe!

David

That's an excellent point. The folks at SimCom say that you don't need anti-ice in visible moisture when the RAT is less than -30C. I tried to show them in the AFM how wrong they were, but none of them had updated for the past 7 years. Ugh!

PJ

 

[ultrarunner]

That's the problem with some of the folks at those school houses. And the above expample underscores the issue of a lack of attention to standardization. It's one of the main reasons corporate aviation is constantly defending itself as the safest way to go.

A quick call the FSDO right down the street from SimCom will set them straight in a freaking heart beat!

 

[puddlejumper]

I'm thinking that course critique may have been conveniently misplaced... It's been over a year ago, so maybe they've changed. SimCom is my previous employers only approved training provider now, so I hope they get their act together.