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CHQ stealing flying!!!!

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kngarthur

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Posts
348
:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!
 
kngarthur said:
:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!

Ah yes, another tale of 3rd grade antics. Keep 'em coming...:rolleyes:
 
kngarthur said:
:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!

:laugh:
 
kngarthur said:
:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
That story doesn't sound made up. Not at all.
 
kngarthur said:
:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!

nothing like a bunch of BS nice try dork
 
Actually CHQ didn't steal your flying as it wasn't technically your flying to begin with. CO owns the flying so if anything XJT,CHQ or any other regional is stealing mainline flying. Discuss.
 
This is interesting

kngarthur started this thread to fuss about CHQ "stealing" his flying and mocking him for it. I call your attention to the following quote...
kngarthur said:
At CHQ we just got a new jepp update of Mazatlan, Cabo and puta vallerta
...copied from this thread:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=918938#post918938

Based on this, I guess we are to understand that the CHQ pilots have stooped to a new low and are now stealing each other's flying?
 
Last edited:
It's not stealing. It’s business.

My family owns a restaurant in a small town. If another one is opened down the street we wouldn't go into the new restaurant and yell at the owner for stealing our business.
 
paulsalem said:
My family owns a restaurant in a small town. If another one is opened down the street we wouldn't go into the new restaurant and yell at the owner for stealing our business.


My hat is off to you. That is actually the simplest and most concise explaination of the situation I have read to date. Wish I could've come up with that. Good to know someone else finally understands.
 
paulsalem said:
My family owns a restaurant in a small town. If another one is opened down the street we wouldn't go into the new restaurant and yell at the owner for stealing our business.

Yea, but if Wal-Mart got into the restaurant business and wanted to expand into your town with low costs through cheaper labor, the perspective employees were using Wal-Mart is as a "stepping stone" for their careers, then you'd be at the next town hall meeting barking and howling. Your oversimplication of the issue is not realistic and quite frankly is hypocritical.
 
paulsalem said:
My family owns a restaurant in a small town. If another one is opened down the street we wouldn't go into the new restaurant and yell at the owner for stealing our business.

What if the owners of the new restaurant went to your family's place and pressed their bare buttcheeks against the front window? Might change your opinion a bit, dontcha think?
 
ATRedneck said:
What if the owners of the new restaurant went to your family's place and pressed their bare buttcheeks against the front window? Might change your opinion a bit, dontcha think?

Now there's a reasonable comparison. :rolleyes:
 
Fly2Scuba said:
Yea, but if Wal-Mart got into the restaurant business and wanted to expand into your town with low costs through cheaper labor, the perspective employees were using Wal-Mart is as a "stepping stone" for their careers, then you'd be at the next town hall meeting barking and howling. Your oversimplication of the issue is not realistic and quite frankly is hypocritical.


Perfect example of the free market economy at work. You can't have it both ways. The unions have lost their balls and management has gotten smart. So whose fault is that ??? But if anyone could explain to me where CHQ's contract is patently inferior to their competitors (especially in the 50 seat market in this case) I'd be all ears.
 
I don't understand the regional pilots ire at the "stealing" of flying. Face it guys, all the flying you are doing was stolen from a mainline pilot years ago. It is just now that the majors have seen how to manipulate the regional pilots and get the flying flown for less and less. When each and everyone of you signed on to xxx regional with a fast upgrade due to the major "giving" their routes to your company you were not too upset about the "opportunities" now were you? Now that there is someone willing to do exactly what you did to get your position you think it is wrong?

It is not XJT, CMR, etc flying. If it carriers to banner of the major on the tail of the airplane then it is their flying. Until you put your name and logo on the airplane and sell your own seats then you are just sub-contract labor that can be replaced at will by the contractor. If you think you want to start your own brand due to your success, please research Independence Air and then think again about your companys brilliance. I recently had a conversation with a COEX pilot that reminded me of many of the ACA/Flyi people I had met previously. Lot's of bravado but no clue.
 
Fly2Scuba said:
Yea, but if Wal-Mart got into the restaurant business and wanted to expand into your town with low costs through cheaper labor, the perspective employees were using Wal-Mart is as a "stepping stone" for their careers, then you'd be at the next town hall meeting barking and howling. Your oversimplication of the issue is not realistic and quite frankly is hypocritical.

Sigh, some of you just don't get it.

This would be called capitalism. I cannot speak for my parents but if it were me I would not complain. The business world is survival of the fittest, and we understand that. The efficient companies survive and the inefficient die. Same goes for the employees, those that are productive and hard workers get promoted, those who are not, are let go.

The small town the restaurant is in is slowly dieing. School enrollment has dropped in the past five years, to the point that they have even shutdown the Junior High School and put everyone into the High School building. The downtown area is abandon with only a few small shops remaining. My parents are still turning a greater profit than the previous owners who left in 2001, while being open only 60% the total hours. Still because the city is dieing, the restaurant eventually will also. A smart business will see this coming and take action. They are considering selling and moving to a city that is growing.

Someone told the airline world that as of this day regional carriers should not compete for business. And pilots will get raises and promotion based not on merit, but years of service.
 
Hypothetical

Answer me this:

Let’s say American adds 5 new routes out of ABC airport. Those 5 routes have been served by Delta for the past 20 years. American offers a fare of 15% less than Delta on those 5 routes. Six months later Delta announces it will stop serving those 5 routes due to lack of revue since Delta showed up.

With all other things being equal (aircraft, pax amenities, on time service, smiling FAs, etc.) would Delta have just “stolen” those routes from American?


I’m sure you can guess my opinion, but what is yours?
 
32LT10 said:
Now that there is someone willing to do exactly what you did to get your position you think it is wrong?

This coming from a guy who bashes LCCs any chance he gets.
 
32LT10 said:
I don't understand the regional pilots ire at the "stealing" of flying. Face it guys, all the flying you are doing was stolen from a mainline pilot years ago.

My understanding is that mainline pilots gave it to the regionals when they signed their scope away.

Just watch your back, if you have a regional guy in the cockpit jumpseat. He might steal some more of your flying when you aren't looking.
 
kngarthur said:
:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!
Very nice propoganda!!!!!
 
kngarthur said:
:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!

Ya know I heard about an incident where a TW flight pulled up to the gate in DFW ofter AA bought TW, but before they stomped them under thier boot heal) and a AA captain flipped off the TW crew...

This industry is going downhill fast...
 
kngarthur said:
:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!


Man, some of you guys are dense! I thought this was funny-and I work at XJET! It won't be funny when I'm back on reserve, but oh well....
 
McNugget said:
My understanding is that mainline pilots gave it to the regionals when they signed their scope away.

Just watch your back, if you have a regional guy in the cockpit jumpseat. He might steal some more of your flying when you aren't looking.

Why was there pressure on scope? The mainline carriers promised their pilots a veritable smorgassboard of new aircraft (widebodies) if the pilots would allow "competitive rates" on the regional aircraft. When the flying the commuters were doing were the less than 300-500nm flights in turboprops to extremely small communities it was a bit different than the current style of RJ flying being done. Scope should never had been given away by the majors but at any rate for the regional pilots to claim ownership of something that does not bear any risk on their behalf is lame. With the cost plus contracts you see very little pride in doing a good job, saving fuel and treating the passengers well on the RJ ops. The RJ operations are the equivilant to using a call center in India to handle reservations. It is a non-company employee, working on a contracted rate to do a service.

I ride the RJ's very infrequently and when I do I notice that the pilots rarely if ever turn off the seat belt sign, communicate an appreciation to the customers, give an estimated arrival time or weather. It is almost always as if the plane is unmanned. Maybe it is?

What the RJ operations were pitched to the pilots during scope negotiations and what they have become are two different animals. I still remember the briefing we were given at UAL. We were told the RJ's would not be used to replace city pairs, only to fill gaps during off peak times. We would not pull out of citys just sub a mid day 737 with an RJ. That has proved to be very far from the truth.

Again, it is not YOUR flying if you are not bearing the risk.
 
CHQ stealing flying is a good example of why pilot groups have lost negotiating power with the companies. There are so many regional airlines willing to undercut another for business. Take PSA. The terms of the CRJ900 agreement are not great, but if they don't accept them, there are no more ngotiations. The flying will simply be given to another company willing and waiting to fly them. There are plenty of other companies swarming around like vultures ready to take these CRJ900s from PSA. So either PSA takes the aircraft, or loses them to some other company. There is no room to "stand strong". The undercutting that is done in the regional airline is damaging to only the pilot groups. Until there is some unification among all pilot groups at all companies there won't be any negotiating power for any.
 
32LT10 said:
I don't understand the regional pilots ire at the "stealing" of flying. Face it guys, all the flying you are doing was stolen from a mainline pilot years ago. It is just now that the majors have seen how to manipulate the regional pilots and get the flying flown for less and less. When each and everyone of you signed on to xxx regional with a fast upgrade due to the major "giving" their routes to your company you were not too upset about the "opportunities" now were you? Now that there is someone willing to do exactly what you did to get your position you think it is wrong?

It is not XJT, CMR, etc flying. If it carriers to banner of the major on the tail of the airplane then it is their flying. Until you put your name and logo on the airplane and sell your own seats then you are just sub-contract labor that can be replaced at will by the contractor. If you think you want to start your own brand due to your success, please research Independence Air and then think again about your companys brilliance. I recently had a conversation with a COEX pilot that reminded me of many of the ACA/Flyi people I had met previously. Lot's of bravado but no clue.

I don't buy this "stolen from mainline" argument, at least in the CAL situation. CAL's narrowbody fleet is as large as it's has ever been with no pilots on furlough, even then XJET took flowbacks after 911. CAL posted a 200 million dollar profit last quarter. I take offense and your implication that we signed on with XXX regional for a fast upgrade, and somehow sold you out in the process. On the contrary, I believe most of us signed on because the particular company we worked for was convenient to where we lived, were hiring when we were looking, and paid better than what we were doing before. You make us out to be much more malicious than we really are.

You are so eager to compare XJET to FlyI. I think XJET will learn from FlyI's mistakes if they choose to pursue flying on their own. They will not fly out of a hub and compete directly with network carriers if they are forced to fly with their own brand, and hopefully they won't be.

Oh yeah, and the biggest problem with the "STOLEN FROM MAINLINE" argument is that you PILOTS were the ones who VOTED ON YOUR SCOPE CLAUSE. That's no different than saying "GEORGE BUSH STOLE THE COUNTRY" because he won the last two presidential elections. You get what you vote for, friend. Regional pilots on the other hand, are the slaves of the airline world. We don't get to vote on mainline (brand) scope.
 
32LT10 said:
Why was there pressure on scope? The mainline carriers promised their pilots a veritable smorgassboard of new aircraft (widebodies) if the pilots would allow "competitive rates" on the regional aircraft. When the flying the commuters were doing were the less than 300-500nm flights in turboprops to extremely small communities it was a bit different than the current style of RJ flying being done. Scope should never had been given away by the majors but at any rate for the regional pilots to claim ownership of something that does not bear any risk on their behalf is lame. With the cost plus contracts you see very little pride in doing a good job, saving fuel and treating the passengers well on the RJ ops. The RJ operations are the equivilant to using a call center in India to handle reservations. It is a non-company employee, working on a contracted rate to do a service.

I ride the RJ's very infrequently and when I do I notice that the pilots rarely if ever turn off the seat belt sign, communicate an appreciation to the customers, give an estimated arrival time or weather. It is almost always as if the plane is unmanned. Maybe it is?

What the RJ operations were pitched to the pilots during scope negotiations and what they have become are two different animals. I still remember the briefing we were given at UAL. We were told the RJ's would not be used to replace city pairs, only to fill gaps during off peak times. We would not pull out of citys just sub a mid day 737 with an RJ. That has proved to be very far from the truth.

Again, it is not YOUR flying if you are not bearing the risk.

Hey, I make two PA's every flight longer than 30 mins when it's not my leg to fly, and I do make sure the passengers KNOW who they are riding on, not ****** Express or Connection, but ***** Airlines, the name of the actual airline they are flying on. If it's shorter than 30 mins I will combine them into one PA and leave the belts on. This is something they do emphasize during IOE at my company, I can't speak for your smorgasbord of UAL feeders.
 

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