CHQ stealing flying!!!!

[32LT10]

You are so eager to compare XJET to FlyI. I think XJET will learn from FlyI's mistakes if they choose to pursue flying on their own. They will not fly out of a hub and compete directly with network carriers if they are forced to fly with their own brand, and hopefully they won't be.

Regional pilots on the other hand, are the slaves of the airline world. We don't get to vote on mainline (brand) scope.

Like I said I spoke with one of your pilots that was talking about the very issue you are mentioning. Flying on your own. You don't want to be compared to flyi yet you are missing a key point. It was not the hub that killed flyi. It is the FACT that the cost to operate a 50 seat airplane is extremely high. You just can not make it work on paper or in real life. Hopefully your management will not generate the unfulfilled dreams in your workforce that flyi did.

You say regional pilots don't get a vote? You can vote with your feet at any time you wish. While you say CAL's narrow body fleet is unchanged you miss the point of the entire industry. AA, DAL, NWA, UAL and US have given away more flying to RJ's than they have gotten back in increased mainline flying. SCOPE votes were ususally associated with the mafia negotiations that the airlines are famous for. Of course it only affects you now so it is an issue and it is unfair.

Here is a question for you. When you started flying was the RJ your career goal or was it to fly for a large carrier? If so how many do you think will actaully see the end goal in their careers?

 

[saab fixr]

i think the orignal post was misunderstood the ChQ pilots werent flipping you off they were telling you they left you 1 pax so you wouldnt freak out but apparently that didnt work

 

[PowerRanger]

What if the owners of the new restaurant went to your family's place and pressed their bare buttcheeks against the front window? Might change your opinion a bit, dontcha think?

I see someone saw Clerks II!

 

[Alchemy]

Here is a question for you. When you started flying was the RJ your career goal or was it to fly for a large carrier? If so how many do you think will actaully see the end goal in their careers?

Personally, my goal is to fly at a large carrier, but I would not be devestated if I were stuck at this particular regional indefinitely. I could think of far worse ways to spend a career.

I think the majority of RJ pilots who are qualified for jobs at the next level will get there if they want to....even if the narrowbody ranks at the likes of Delta and UAL have been carved up by RJ's, there will still be guys retiring, and there will still be a strong demand for A319 and B735 sized aircraft, even with 70 and 90 seat RJ's in the air. I really don't see scope eroding to the piont that 100+ seats will go the regionals. As long as that doesn't happen, and the age 60 rule remains in place, there will always be jobs at the next level to go to for qualified pilots.

There are a lot of RJ captains that I work with who are simply not that motivated to find better jobs. They don't want to move, they don't want to take the 1st year paycut, and they don't want to pay for a B737 type rating. They will probably be forced to do those things eventually anyway (unless they leave the industry) because most regionals will not last long enough to spend a 30 year career with.

But back to the original topic, the post is obviously a joke, and I doubt that you will find many XJET pilots who harbor malice toward RAH pilots for the CAL flying that they are getting. That malice would more smartly be directed at XJET and CAL management for bungling the negiotiations. Particularly as a commuter, I just want everyone to get along.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Sigh, some of you just don't get it.

This would be called capitalism. I cannot speak for my parents but if it were me I would not complain. The business world is survival of the fittest, and we understand that. The efficient companies survive and the inefficient die. Same goes for the employees, those that are productive and hard workers get promoted, those who are not, are let go.

The small town the restaurant is in is slowly dieing. School enrollment has dropped in the past five years, to the point that they have even shutdown the Junior High School and put everyone into the High School building. The downtown area is abandon with only a few small shops remaining. My parents are still turning a greater profit than the previous owners who left in 2001, while being open only 60% the total hours. Still because the city is dieing, the restaurant eventually will also. A smart business will see this coming and take action. They are considering selling and moving to a city that is growing.

Someone told the airline world that as of this day regional carriers should not compete for business. And pilots will get raises and promotion based not on merit, but years of service.

By far the The biggest problem with capitalism is people who subscribe to this theory to the t like yourself only ask if it is legal or if it's something you can get away with, not if it is ethical. It's a very cold thought process that has produced plenty of villians (Enron and Mesa for example), and many losers (Atlantic Coast Airlines). Try to stop for once, and ask what is ethical and what effect your actions and positions have on others.

 

[32LT10]

There are a lot of RJ captains that I work with who are simply not that motivated to find better jobs. They don't want to move, they don't want to take the 1st year paycut, and they don't want to pay for a B737 type rating. They will probably be forced to do those things eventually anyway (unless they leave the industry) because most regionals will not last long enough to spend a 30 year career with.

I appreciate your answer. As to the above cases I have heard this argument many times over. I hate to keep bringing up flyi but I heard that many many times from those guys. Just recently heard the same thing from a SKYW pilot that was riding with us. My f/o mentioned that he had heard UAL might start hiring at the end of next year based on current needs/recalls and non change of retirement age. The SKYW pilot said he would stay where he was because he had been there 4 years and was an LCA. While I can appreciate his desire to maintain his lifestyle, he is putting himself at a career disadvantage. All it would take is for UAL and or DAL to find someone else to fly those SKYW flights to upset the apple cart. I would encourage all that want to make this a career to find a job a branded carrier. If I was in the market I would look strongly at FedEx due to the stability of cargo.

But back to the original topic, the post is obviously a joke, and I doubt that you will find many XJET pilots who harbor malice toward RAH pilots for the CAL flying that they are getting. That malice would more smartly be directed at XJET and CAL management for bungling the negiotiations. Particularly as a commuter, I just want everyone to get along.

That is very true. It is about greedy managements and the companies that are willing to feed them.

 

[paulsalem]

By far the The biggest problem with capitalism is people who subscribe to this theory to the t like yourself only ask if it is legal or if it's something you can get away with, not if it is ethical. It's a very cold thought process that has produced plenty of villians (Enron and Mesa for example), and many losers (Atlantic Coast Airlines). Try to stop for once, and ask what is ethical and what effect your actions and positions have on others.

First of all what Enron did was Illegal.
Secondly competition is not unethical.

I’m guess you’re saying what Mesa has done is to bid lowest to get more flying in addition to underpaying their pilots?

Well bidding lower than anyone else to get more business sounds fine to me. I’d guess that when you go shopping for a new car you probably go get a couple offers and go then purchase from the dealership that offers you the lowest price.

If the Mesa pilots don’t like their wage, then they should quit. If loads of Mesa pilots were quitting, and no one was applying I would bet they’d start raising their wages; if they faced a pilot shortage that would end up hurting their bottom line. But for whatever reason pilots stay at the company and wait for the union to fix the problem instead of leaving. Or worse yet, accept a position with a company and hope that during the next contract negations pay will rise. Then when it doesn’t they come on here and complain. Or better yet, pilots from other carriers come on here and call them names!

Let’s talk about competition for a bit:

Chq just got awarded the flying that Express Jet was previously doing for Cont. They did this by successfully negotiation with probably due to a cheaper rate, on time performance, completion rates etc.

So if Cont saves money by having CHQ do the flying instead of ExpressJet that will help their bottom line.

If they are profitable (or more profitable) then they’re more likely to hire pilots, not furlough them and have more flexibility in negotiating a better contract when the time comes.

Yes ExpressJet pilots may get furloughed because of this, but you must look at the greater good. And those ExpressJet pilots can go over to CHQ and get hired.

Yes I know they will loose their seniority number but if you live by the union you’ll die by the union.

 

[Alchemy]

First of all what Enron did was Illegal.
Secondly competition is not unethical.

I’m guess you’re saying what Mesa has done is to bid lowest to get more flying in addition to underpaying their pilots?

Well bidding lower than anyone else to get more business sounds fine to me. I’d guess that when you go shopping for a new car you probably go get a couple offers and go then purchase from the dealership that offers you the lowest price.

If the Mesa pilots don’t like their wage, then they should quit. If loads of Mesa pilots were quitting, and no one was applying I would bet they’d start raising their wages; if they faced a pilot shortage that would end up hurting their bottom line. But for whatever reason pilots stay at the company and wait for the union to fix the problem instead of leaving. Or worse yet, accept a position with a company and hope that during the next contract negations pay will rise. Then when it doesn’t they come on here and complain. Or better yet, pilots from other carriers come on here and call them names!

Let’s talk about competition for a bit:

Chq just got awarded the flying that Express Jet was previously doing for Cont. They did this by successfully negotiation with probably due to a cheaper rate, on time performance, completion rates etc.

So if Cont saves money by having CHQ do the flying instead of ExpressJet that will help their bottom line.

If they are profitable (or more profitable) then they’re more likely to hire pilots, not furlough them and have more flexibility in negotiating a better contract when the time comes.

Yes ExpressJet pilots may get furloughed because of this, but you must look at the greater good. And those ExpressJet pilots can go over to CHQ and get hired.

Yes I know they will loose their seniority number but if you live by the union you’ll die by the union.

I'd rather work for Colgan. And live by the union die by the union? CHQ has a blasted union too.

 

[paulsalem]

I'd rather work for Colgan. And live by the union die by the union? CHQ has a blasted union too.

Yes I know, I'm not a fan of unions.

 

[Mike man]

So that kngarthur guy just said he saw a CHQ plane flip him off in this thread...but in a different thread he says "here at CHQ we just..."

kngarthur you sir are a D U M B A R S E ! ! !
http://forums.flightinfo.com/member.php?u=17641

 

[Alchemy]

Well it's only natural for CHQ pilots to feel guilty about what they are doing, undercutting everyone in their traditional market segments and all.

Making jokes about it like kngarthur has is just a natural defense mechanism. Poor guy.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

First of all what Enron did was Illegal.
Secondly competition is not unethical.

I’m guess you’re saying what Mesa has done is to bid lowest to get more flying in addition to underpaying their pilots?

Well bidding lower than anyone else to get more business sounds fine to me. I’d guess that when you go shopping for a new car you probably go get a couple offers and go then purchase from the dealership that offers you the lowest price.

If the Mesa pilots don’t like their wage, then they should quit. If loads of Mesa pilots were quitting, and no one was applying I would bet they’d start raising their wages; if they faced a pilot shortage that would end up hurting their bottom line. But for whatever reason pilots stay at the company and wait for the union to fix the problem instead of leaving. Or worse yet, accept a position with a company and hope that during the next contract negations pay will rise. Then when it doesn’t they come on here and complain. Or better yet, pilots from other carriers come on here and call them names!

Let’s talk about competition for a bit:

Chq just got awarded the flying that Express Jet was previously doing for Cont. They did this by successfully negotiation with probably due to a cheaper rate, on time performance, completion rates etc.

So if Cont saves money by having CHQ do the flying instead of ExpressJet that will help their bottom line.

If they are profitable (or more profitable) then they’re more likely to hire pilots, not furlough them and have more flexibility in negotiating a better contract when the time comes.

Yes ExpressJet pilots may get furloughed because of this, but you must look at the greater good. And those ExpressJet pilots can go over to CHQ and get hired.

Yes I know they will loose their seniority number but if you live by the union you’ll die by the union.

I'll tie in unions and also respond to the idea your conclusions on the greater good of all out of capitalism. Do you want foreign airlines to have all out access to US markets? If you do, quite frankly you're nuts. If not, then you're being hypocritical and should understand that there must be limitations on what is acceptable in regards to capitalism.

Ethical questions abound. Is it ethical that American companies create offshore accounts to avoid paying taxes? Is it ethical for Continental to outsource ExpressJet flying; when I was hired it was Continental Express and a direct subsiderary of Continental? Is it ethical to fly 70 seat or 90 seat aircraft at 50 seat rates, especially when there are thousands still on furlough at the majors? Back to foreign airlines trying for access into American markets. ALPA is a major player in hopefully helping this from becoming reality. They also work to assure safety is a top priority including rest requirements and so forthe providing benefits to all pilots. So is it ethical to decline being part of a union which still provides protections for your career, while other pilots pay for it through dues?

 

[paulsalem]

Do you want foreign airlines to have all out access to US markets?

I’ve never really thought about it, which results in better service and price to the flying public would be my first question. But isn’t that cabatouge?

Is it ethical that American companies create offshore accounts to avoid paying taxes?

That’s an easy one: No

Is it ethical for Continental to outsource ExpressJet flying; when I was hired it was Continental Express and a direct subsidiary of Continental?

According to Meridith Levinso writer of “Ask the Ethicist” for CIO.com

“Your primary ethical consideration as a member of your company's management team is to keep the company competitive.”

That is a response to a question regarding outsourcing. Now she didn’t answer you exact question, but its as close as I found from a professional Ethicist. I'm not sure of your exact circumstances, nor am I an ethicist.

Is it ethical to fly 70 seat or 90 seat aircraft at 50 seat rates, especially when there are thousands still on furlough at the majors?

Again if the pilots agreed to the pay, than I’d say yes. It’s not like its slave labor or indentured servitude. This is at will employment. Everyone is free to leave.

So is it ethical to decline being part of a union which still provides protections for your career, while other pilots pay for it through dues?

Is it ethical to force all people that work for a company to join a union? Is it ethical for the entire staff to walk out on a company to get what ever they want in a contract?


Just to be clear, I wish no ill will towards yourself, or any other fellow pilots out there, no matter whom they work for. I hope this is a friendly conversation.

 

[sewerpiper]

We stole mesa's flyin in PHL and I think DCA..........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

 

[sewerpiper]

We stole mesa's flyin in PHL and I think DCA..........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Ohh wait, they took a lot of our ORD flying........Screw you guys

 

[sewerpiper]

Ohh wait, they took a lot of our ORD flying........Screw you guys

Wait......we took United's mainline flying from like the 70s......scew us!

 

[sewerpiper]

Wait......we took United's mainline flying from like the 70s......scew us!

Ok i'm confused and I give up, don't bother replyin becase I hate this message board and only get on here when I'm drunk and board. Ahh if only I could go back to the day before I started college for my career, and slapped me. Yes regional jobs suck, and by the time i'm up to a major it will suck too. Why are pilots gluttens for punishment. I use to tell myslelf I didn't know how to do anything else, so i'm stuck with this. Nope not anymore. In a few years only flyin im gonna be doin is in my own personal plane.

Sorry I finished the rest of the story Paul Harvey.

 

[DoubtingThomas]

You nerds have to stop posting on this message board.. do you think your posts are educating anyone? Stop posting, all of you.

Nerds.

Whoops I just became the ultimate hypocrite.

 

[kngarthur]

Wow! 4 pages!!!!

 

[Axel]

Yep. Good one.

You are hereby promoted to master baiter.

 

[Ride Orange]

:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!

You F'n retard! First, we all KNOW your making that sh#t up, and second, decisions made by executives has NOTHING to do with pilots. What airline do you know of that lets the pilots decide their routes? You are still a CFI aren't you? Just trying to fit in here by being a wanker.

 

[ERJDRVR]

What if the owners of the new restaurant went to your family's place and pressed their bare buttcheeks against the front window? Might change your opinion a bit, dontcha think?

Cute females or are they CHQ Flight attendants? I am not going to lie, I would be offended to see our bare flight attendants Azzes.

 

[kngarthur]

You F'n retard! First, we all KNOW your making that sh#t up, and second, decisions made by executives has NOTHING to do with pilots. What airline do you know of that lets the pilots decide their routes? You are still a CFI aren't you? Just trying to fit in here by being a wanker.

I sorry I didn't make it obvious enough for you.

 

[Tina Fey's Scar]

At Chautauqua, we don't steal flying, we earn flying by being the best pilots in the industry!

I once landed my EMB170 in a 10 knot crosswind - a direct crosswind, mind you. Take that.

 

[pilotmyf]

At Chautauqua, we don't steal flying, we earn flying by being the best pilots in the industry!

I once landed my EMB170 in a 10 knot crosswind - a direct crosswind, mind you. Take that.

I once saw an EMB170 leave the gate AND takeoff, nope, didn't even return for MX. Scout's Honor!!!!!!

 

[Flybet3]

:angryfire We were pulling into Atlanta today, and I saw a 145 chq plane just taxi out of 5N. I saw the the Captain and FO give me the finger and they started laughing? We were like "WTF", that's pretty immature. When we pulled up to the gate, the gate agent told us that CHQ loaded up our PAX and just left, then our flight got cancelled. This has just got to stop somewhere, this is ridiculous!

The guy is just mad b/c some dome a$$ gave him the finger...geez what a
pu$$y! that's right I said it

 

[Flybet3]

At Chautauqua, we don't steal flying, we earn flying by being the best pilots in the industry!

I once landed my EMB170 in a 10 knot crosswind - a direct crosswind, mind you. Take that.

Ok you just got done with IOE did you? and have what... 500 hours total time? Can you please think before you type sh!t that makes you sound like a complete tool

 

[_BravoWhiskey_]

edited

 

[172driver]

But if anyone could explain to me where CHQ's contract is patently inferior to their competitors (especially in the 50 seat market in this case) I'd be all ears.

How about if someone were to explain to you where CHQ's contract WAS patently inferior to their competitor before their competitor was faced with stagnation, shifting of flying, furloughs and the threat of liquidation due to their vastly superior contract?

 

[McNugget]

e.

I ride the RJ's very infrequently and when I do I notice that the pilots rarely if ever turn off the seat belt sign, communicate an appreciation to the customers, give an estimated arrival time or weather. It is almost always as if the plane is unmanned. Maybe it is?

Well, back at ACA, we took a lot of pride in doing all of those things and taking good care of the passengers.

P.S.- While the UAL crews are a real class act, some of the CS people give your airline a bad name.