CHQ or XJT?

[ILStoMinimums]

Is the furlough option only for Indy guys? I may be layed off soon, should I apply again through the furlough link?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Both are good companies and will treat you well. I would not venture to say that XJT is a much better company all around, but a better company in some areas. XJT's new contract is better than CHQ in terms of pay, and are equal in regards to work rules. I would say XJT is a safer bet because of Continental's financial situation, which isnt all that great but better than CHQ's partners. CHQ has treated me very well for the past year, but if I had to do it over again I would pick XJT just for the stability.

Just my 2 cents...

As one person has said on here, if someone is comparing the 2 purely on upgrade potential, they might want to go to CHQ, as they are much smaller than us and as such, require fewer deliveries to double the fleet size. With that said, XJT will lose roughly 450 pilots over the next 12-18 months. That is about 20% of our seniority list. These pilots are the remaining furloughed CAL pilots, the "113" group, and then the 200 or so pilots who have commitment letters from CAL. On top of that, we are also going to need another 150 captains or so for our last airframe deliveries. So we are looking at another 600 captain spots minimum...and this doesn't factor in pilots who leave for other airlines, who are terminated, medical out, or who bid FO for QOL, etc. But generally speaking, XJT isn't the place to come to if you expect 1.5 year upgrades anytime soon.

Upgrade potential aside, I think CHQ will be fine doing business for DAL and UAL for the near future. Time will tell what happens to US. We have a pretty good lock on CAL's business for now but anything could happen in the next 3 years.

Looking at the contracts...I have examined CHQ's pretty carefully, almost down to every word and I have a fairly good understanding of XJT's contract as well. While CHQ isn't as weak as some others out there (they have some nice provisions in some areas like the holiday pay as well as the no JM'ing/airport reserve)...It is my opinion that XJT has better work rules as well as a much better retirement match/401k system. Our compensation (higher hourly rates plus a real profit sharing program), vacation (trips that conflict with vacation drop off and we are protected to min pay guarantee...yielding us 20-25 days off and one 4-day in a vacation month), and scheduling sections (awesome displacement rules (for when the company needs your trip to give IOE)...better trip trading as well as better reserve scheduling rules...like a 12-hour long call out) are much better as well. We also have a higher sick bank accrual. These provisions will add up to more time off as well as a higher W-2 at the end of the year. Also, CHQ has PBS and XJT doesn't (how you feel about PBS is your own view I guess...our pilots detest the thought of PBS however).

Hopefully the CHQ guys won't view this as a slam on their company or contract because its not. It is just an honest assessment from having read both contracts cover to cover. I don't want this to degenerate into a pissing contest. Some CHQ guys will talk about their quick upgrades and our 5 year FO's...fortunately, that situation of ours is pretty much taken care of in the next 5 months worth of training as we are upgrading 64 captains a month.

If any CHQ guys want to bring up some counterpoints, by all means...but lets keep it civil.

-Neal

 

[rattler]

However, one thing I really like about CHQ is no airport reserve. 1.5 hour callout is not bad especially if you live on base. [/QUOTE]

First, what do you guys do if someone calls in sick, fatigued, timeout, etc, at the last min.? That's what Airport Standby's are for. I also know a few commuters that request Airport Standby, because when you're done you are released (unless assigned of course).

Second, I'll take the full two hours, plus the extra hour to push. But maybe that's just me. You really don't need to show your face untill 1/2 to push, and even then most CA/FO's won't call untill the last min..

 

[Paul R. Smith]

May I suggest a forum rule....NO MORE DIVISIVE SKW vs CHQ vs Eagle vs XJT vs threads...If you really want to know where to start your career figure it out for yourself. Don't listen to some unnamed hack on an aviation forum. And these kinds of threads tend to get people's blood pressure goin for no reason....or is that what you really wanted?

Or do we actually like getting our blood pressure going?


But seriously folks, Go where you'll be happy. Its like picking a college...whatever you do don't go to Embry Riddle. Thats all you need to know.

 

[Chip]

good post bluedev

 

[Axel]

good post bluedev

I concur. First objective comparison I've ever seen on these boards.

 

[kntrdr]

Neal (BlueDev),

Thanks for the objective post, without slamming CHQ. It's easy for a lot of people to want to do just that (slam CHQ) because we are the current "flavor of the month" as far as growth, upgrades, etc. I appreciate your objective opinion, it was in fact informative.

As someone who has worked for both companies (former furloughed Express F/O and current CHQ Captain) I'll give my 2 cents. First of all, either company is a very good place to work. I worked under XJT's old contract and it was a good place to work, I'm sure it is even better now, with all of BluDev & the other EXCO's hard work. It sounds as if XJT's new contract (which I HAVE NOT read) improved a lot of deficiencies. CHQ's contract does not have a lot of those provisions. We do however, have a great quality of life. As an F/O I wold routinely have 17-19 days off a month. As a fairly new Captain (6 months and counting) I get 13-15 days off, but I do work most weekends. The great thing about CHQ is your schedule is your schedule. They can't touch you outside of it (junior manning, roll days off, etc) To me, that is worth a few dollars an hour, but that's just me. Everyone hacks on CHQ's contract but it is not bad at all. Sure there are things I'd LOVE to see in there, and they will be things I'm sure we will be looking for in our next contract. Our's was the first NON-CONCESSIONARY contract post 9/11. We got rid of an alter-ego airline, we got raises, we got work rules improvement, all in all, we did fairly good. XJT did better, which they should have.
Don't go to either airline in hopes of a quick upgrade. That can change in a heartbeat. In INDOC at XJT they told me I'd be a Captain in 6 months. Didn't happen. If anything happens at USAir (or Delta or American or UAL) then I might be back to F/O. If you come to CHQ (or XJT) you might get furloughed. That's life in the airline industry.
Both airlines have lots to offer. If your lucky enough to get offers at both, then take the time to think about what matters most to you. For me, I think it would come down to bases more than anything. If I lived in Houston (or EWR or CLE) it would be XJT. If I lived in St Louis (or IND, SDF, LGA, CMH, BUF, MCO, FLL, RIC, or GSO) I'd go to CHQ.

 

[wahoo250]

bases are everything...you'll be there for a while at either place. If you like where you live you killed half the monster. If you like where you work...thats the other half. I didnt know CHQ had a base in FLL, how big is it? or maybe I should say how junior?

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Wow Im shocked....... lets keep it civil

See! We all can get along! I knew it

Being a new FO for CHQ Thats what I did Did my own research

Better yet, I have friends who fly for both XJT and CHQ and I picked CHQ because of the upcoming 170s and I was hoping I would get into that aircraft and I did and I am enjoying it a lot.

I know XJT is a great company to work for, I read Gordon Bethune's book From Worst To First. and yall are really lucky to have a great CEO

Both companies are good to work for...just your personal pref on what type of aircraft you want to fly.

 

[sweptback]

Better yet, I have friends who fly for both XJT and CHQ and I pickedCHQ because of the upcoming 170s and I was hoping I would get into thataircraft and I did and I am enjoying it a lot.

Why? What's so good about the 170? Especially since it pays the same as a FO? It's just an airplane, after all.

Iknow XJT is a great company to work for, I read Gordon Bethune's bookFrom Worst To First. and yall are really lucky to have a greatCEO

Gordon retired at the end of last year.

 

[TWAER]

Why? What's so good about the 170? Especially since it pays the same as a FO? It's just an airplane, after all.

One more FA to hit on. Maybe???????

 

[ERJDRVR]

Neal (BlueDev),

Thanks for the objective post, without slamming CHQ. It's easy for a lot of people to want to do just that (slam CHQ) because we are the current "flavor of the month" as far as growth, upgrades, etc. I appreciate your objective opinion, it was in fact informative.

As someone who has worked for both companies (former furloughed Express F/O and current CHQ Captain) I'll give my 2 cents. First of all, either company is a very good place to work. I worked under XJT's old contract and it was a good place to work, I'm sure it is even better now, with all of BluDev & the other EXCO's hard work. It sounds as if XJT's new contract (which I HAVE NOT read) improved a lot of deficiencies. CHQ's contract does not have a lot of those provisions. We do however, have a great quality of life. As an F/O I wold routinely have 17-19 days off a month. As a fairly new Captain (6 months and counting) I get 13-15 days off, but I do work most weekends. The great thing about CHQ is your schedule is your schedule. They can't touch you outside of it (junior manning, roll days off, etc) To me, that is worth a few dollars an hour, but that's just me. Everyone hacks on CHQ's contract but it is not bad at all. Sure there are things I'd LOVE to see in there, and they will be things I'm sure we will be looking for in our next contract. Our's was the first NON-CONCESSIONARY contract post 9/11. We got rid of an alter-ego airline, we got raises, we got work rules improvement, all in all, we did fairly good. XJT did better, which they should have.
Don't go to either airline in hopes of a quick upgrade. That can change in a heartbeat. In INDOC at XJT they told me I'd be a Captain in 6 months. Didn't happen. If anything happens at USAir (or Delta or American or UAL) then I might be back to F/O. If you come to CHQ (or XJT) you might get furloughed. That's life in the airline industry.
Both airlines have lots to offer. If your lucky enough to get offers at both, then take the time to think about what matters most to you. For me, I think it would come down to bases more than anything. If I lived in Houston (or EWR or CLE) it would be XJT. If I lived in St Louis (or IND, SDF, LGA, CMH, BUF, MCO, FLL, RIC, or GSO) I'd go to CHQ.

Probally the MOST QUALIFIED person to answer this question. Good post Knight-ryder.


Don't lay your $$$$ on upgrades.. That stuff turns in a heartbeat. 1 year upgrade today, 9 year upgrade 2 months later.

Good luck.

 

[AirBoard]

Well I consider someone on probation a "new hire." If you are with Indy, put your stuff in with us and you will have a streamlined intervew in the very near future.

-Neal

Probation... that was a long time ago but I guess......Already put the cv into you guys, hopefully something good comes about. I applied 5 years ago and didn't hear anything, maybe they don't like my name.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

oh didnt know G B retired

airplane is an airplane

i didnt care but since i had the time to get into the 170 why not shoot for it?
going from a piston to a jet didnt matter which airplane I got but at least try for the 170 and work my way down

but again both companies are great to work for

 

[rattler]

,


As an F/O I wold routinely have 17-19 days off a month. As a fairly new Captain (6 months and counting) I get 13-15 days off, but I do work most weekends. /QUOTE]

Hey Mike, are those days off reflected on your bid packets, or do you get those in open time. Last month, we had most lines with 12 days off, alot of 13-14's in the middle, maybe 15 or so with 15 days off and less than ten lines with 16-18 days off. I can get 17-19 days off with a little Voodoo majic in the open time window, but not commutable. The best commutable line I have ever had was 16 days off. I built it myself. Normally I have 14 days off, weekends/hollidays off, and commutable.

Congrat's on the upgrade!

 

[kc1]

At ExpressJet, if hired today, would it be likely to upgrade within 5 years?

 

[kntrdr]

,


As an F/O I wold routinely have 17-19 days off a month. As a fairly new Captain (6 months and counting) I get 13-15 days off, but I do work most weekends. /QUOTE]

Hey Mike, are those days off reflected on your bid packets, or do you get those in open time. Last month, we had most lines with 12 days off, alot of 13-14's in the middle, maybe 15 or so with 15 days off and less than ten lines with 16-18 days off. I can get 17-19 days off with a little Voodoo majic in the open time window, but not commutable. The best commutable line I have ever had was 16 days off. I built it myself. Normally I have 14 days off, weekends/hollidays off, and commutable.

Congrat's on the upgrade!

Before when I was an FO, it was in the bid pack. Now we have switched to PBS, and it is what I am awarded. I never have traded a trip, picked up open time, etc.. Our schedules (for the most part) are really good. They guys that complain about it have never worked any where else. All in all, the schedules are really nice. One of the best parts of working here.

 

[rattler]

Before when I was an FO, it was in the bid pack. Now we have switched to PBS, and it is what I am awarded. I never have traded a trip, picked up open time, etc.. Our schedules (for the most part) are really good. They guys that complain about it have never worked any where else. All in all, the schedules are really nice. One of the best parts of working here.

Sorry, one more question. With that being said it is obvious you guys get more days off then we do. There has been alot of the PBS talk recently. I think most people are strongly apposed to it. So since you have bid using both methods, do you like the PBS better? In your opinion, are you getting better lines? QOL?

I am also amazed you are awarded line with up to 15 days off, with only 6 months in the left seat. That's great!

 

[kntrdr]

I'm still undecided about it (PBS). For me it has not been bad, but I have been really junior when using it. I think all in all, it is OK. I liked the other method as well. When the lines were being built for us (pre-pbs) I think the line values were less. Most lines were built for about 78 hrs. Now the line values seem to be higher in most bases (about 82 hrs). So with PBS it seems as if we are flying more, but also getting more $$$. Different guys have different opinions of it. I think the really senior guys like it (they can hand build there schedule) and the really junior guys seem to like it (seems to make us get lines easier, can have a better schedule, ie. a mix of good trips) I think the middle of the road seniority guys like it a little less. That is just my observation. The bottom line is, if you have bad pairing, you will have a bad schedule. They are working on improving our pairings, but some of them are very inefficient. Especially on the USAir side of things.

 

[E145Pilot]

I'll agree with Knight's response about the PBS. If you don't the schedule you get with it, you probably didn't like your schedule before we went to PBS either. A lot of guys don't like it because they aren't asking it for what they really want. Personally, as a commuter I try for early checkouts (basically get off before 6:30 pm on the last day - as commutable as it gets in SDF, but that's another story) and maximum days off. The last two months I've gotten 18 and 19 days off respectively with no vacation. Not to give away my secrets, but this can be achieved by asking for Min Schedule (builds a line until it reaches approx 78 hours) and then Awarding average daily credits as high as i can get them. I don't care where i go as long as I can get back early and am working my a$$ off while I'm at work. As a one year FO, I can't complain at all, but have friends at XJT and think that you will be happy at either company. Again, to second Knight, it would come down to bases for me too, as STL is pretty much CHQ's only commutable base. Good Luck