CHQ and probation

[wheelsup]

I was told CHQ recently fired someone for refusing to take a flight because it would take them over their duty day limits. There's an investigation pending, but anyone know anything more? I would assume the actual reason for firing wasn't refusing to take the flight, but you never know. They were still on probation so he was just 'let go'. Or atleast this was the story told to me. Is this common?

~wheelsup

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

H E double hockey sticks no!

I'm sure there's a bit of truth to that story, but it's been passed down a few times and has been warped. Remember that "telephone" game you played as a kid? Sit in a circle and whisper a statement to the next kid, then have them pass it on, and when it hits the last kid the statement has totally changed...

Welcome to the regional airline world where we are all just a bunch of kids playing the telephone game!

Anyway, the company cannot fire you for obeying the regs.

 

[wheelsup]

Anyway, the company cannot fire you for obeying the regs.

That's what I figured. How does probation work? Can they fire you for no reason, i.e. if they don't like the way you smile you're gone?

~wheelsup

 

[TWAER]

First of all, most airlines have a one year probationary period. And yes, they can fire you for not smiling at the chief pilot. It doesn't happen very often, but people get fired for stupid thing that they otherwise, would not get in trouble for one year and one day after being hired. With that being said, the above story you are talking about really should not be discussed on a public forum like this. That is my opinion.

 

[Bluto]

Why not? If the situation is unfair, hopefully others can learn from the mistakes of this individual. More importantly, if the reason was legitimate, it's even more important that we learn the details so others can learn from it. I don't understand why people are so hesitant to discuss why people get fired. As a person who would like to keep my job and support my family, I'd like to know as much as possible about these situations.

 

[TheBigH]

Why not? If the situation is unfair, hopefully others can learn from the mistakes of this individual. More importantly, if the reason was legitimate, it's even more important that we learn the details so others can learn from it. I don't understand why people are so hesitant to discuss why people get fired. As a person who would like to keep my job and support my family, I'd like to know as much as possible about these situations.

I agree on this, I've heard of a couple of shady actions on CHQ's part, that said though remember that a lot of what is rummored is told by the person who got the boot, and we always try to seem as innocent as can be, just like when your parents ask you if you really hit that kid in school and you make up a sad story about how he has been throwing pencils at you for years, etc ...

Anyhow, from what I heard, and this is just what I heard, nothing else ... the newhire that got fired refused to fly cuz his schedule for the day went past CHQs 14 hr duty limit (per contract), not the 16 hour limit. There's no way in hell you can get fired for refusing to take a schedule that's over 16 hrs of duty or for not departing with enough time to be off duty by the 16 hours ... No airline in their right mind would make you do that cuz they would be in DEEP doo-doo.

Anyhow, that's just what I heard, may or may not be true and there's probably more to it than that, perhaps some foul language at the crew schedulers, who knows ... but it does seem like CHQ will can guys on probation w/ absolutely no hessitation ...

 

[wheelsup]

for the day went past CHQs 14 hr duty limit (per contract)

So what should a pilot do? Didn't he do the right thing? I mean it's "per contract", and how could mgmt fire him if that was the case? As someone who might soon be in a probationary perioid I'm just wondering how to avoid this myself. Wouldn't your fellow pilots depise (sp?) you for not honoring the contract? Proverbial rock and a hard place it seems.

~wheelsup

 

[Bluto]

I think the semi-official ALPA policy is something along the lines of, "Fly it, then grieve it."

 

[TheBigH]

Proverbial rock and a hard place it seems.

And the award for understatement of the year goes to ......



Yea braw it sucks, I think something that adds to the matter is that you really don't have union protection during your first year, not that you get much afterwards anyway but that's a whole different topic ...


If I was the guy I would have flown my schedule, thanked scheduling for letting me help them, and then called up the CP or Asst CP to discuss the matter. Point is that unless you got enough seniority to ruffle some feathers OR it's a regulatory matter, don't risk your job AND career for a contract matter ... remember that the next airline you apply to is gonna wanna know why you got your butt canned from the last one ... and saying, oh I refused to take a schedule over 14 hours cuz of my cushy contract is not gonna make you a rockstar ....

Just my opinion ..

 

[TWAER]

Why not? If the situation is unfair, hopefully others can learn from the mistakes of this individual. More importantly, if the reason was legitimate, it's even more important that we learn the details so others can learn from it. I don't understand why people are so hesitant to discuss why people get fired. As a person who would like to keep my job and support my family, I'd like to know as much as possible about these situations.

First of all, you missed the "my opinion" part of the statement. I really don't give a crap what is said on FI.

Second, unless you are part of management, or the person involved, you will never get to the bottom of the issue. Every side has their own story, good or bad. From what I have heard from the terminated party, he got the shaft. But then again I do not have all the facts. And it doesn't seem like anyone on here has either.

 

[Bluto]

No, I caught the "opinion" part. It doesn't change my position. Unfortunately, in this world, most of us have to get our facts second-hand, from other people. I agree that it's tough to get the whole story, but simply avoiding discussion on the matter because we lack all the facts doesn't help anyone either.

 

[TheBigH]

There's no right or wrong opinion right ?

Point is that it's pretty evident that CHQ is somewhat ruthless when it comes to giving people a taste of the canning process. I don't think every airline is like this, and there may be some that are even worse (none that I know of) but hopefully posts like these make people aware of what goes on in these airlines, 100% factual or not doens't really matter, just know that if you go to CHQ don't count on the company taking good care of you that's all, it sucks for the poor guy that got the shaft, but from what I have heard he's not alone ....

 

[Bluto]

from what I have heard he's not alone ....

Even more reason to get as many of the facts as possible.

In this industry, where seniority is everything, I consider unjustified terminations a very serious issue. Whether this particular case was unjustified, I can't say. Regardless, though, just as I consider it valuable to research NTSB accident reports to ensure that I don't make the same mistakes, I think it's valuable to discuss the conditions that lead to a person's termination. I never suggested anyone's opinion was wrong, I just disagree with it.

 

[TheBigH]

Dude I agree 100% ....

 

[FlyingDawg]

Reserve is not rest and it is not duty. This also applies in the CHQ contract.

I'm not sure about the details of this incident, but it should be noted that your legal to work for 16 hours after the time your reserve starts. Duty however doesn't start until you show up for work (limited to 14 hours in the CHQ contract). So one could start duty 2 hours after reserve started and still be legal under the FAR's and the contract.

Again I'm not sure this is what happened.

 

[Cracker]

The union is supposedly still waiting on the phone call tapes regarding the conversation with our scheduling and FO in question. As it turns out, the company is having difficulties locating the recordings. Things that make you go HHmmm.

Either way, the FO is getting outside counsel for this matter, since our union is pretty much no help at all for Probies. More that several of our pilots have stated that they are willing to help the FO financially with the outside lawyer, which obviously shouldn't have been needed.

But, as Flying Dawg has stated, most of us are really not to sure what really happened. Chinese telephone, two sides to every story, etc.

 

[Popeye0537]

Hey Bluto...you still flyin out of PS Cali? I'm flyin for CHQ now and love it, hows SW treatin ya?? call me its been a long time