Chicago Tribune article on Age 60...

[JP4user]

Why isn't ALPA lobbying to lower the age for ss and medicare benefits?

 

[GoABX]

He is turning 60 and his brother is 102?!! Guess good judgment runs in the family.

This guy started in 1970. He enjoyed all the airline good times and now claims not to have a pot to pi$$ in. Tough luck dude.

Sorry old guys, you got to go. Cutting the old guys a break, will cost some of the young guys (40s) over a million dollars.


If the geezers continue to screw up financially or their airlines border on failing should we extend it again in 5 years and keep doing so until they get it right or die?

FU there is too much of my money on the table.

 

[Flybynite]

Okay, bad analogy, I'll agree. If people want to fight for change, then that's fine, but knock of this whole "it's discrimination" and "it's not fair" garbage.

Ok, then stop using that crap line "they knew the rules when they hired on". Things change in every aspect of life. You sound like a bitter member of the entitlement generation.

 

[RightBettor]

Congress wants nothing to do with seeing that people get these bennies any earlier than possible. I look at the money that goes into that SS rathole every month and realize that it is gone. I may as well take some cash out back and set it on fire! What a f*cking scam (kind of a ponzi scheme really!) Ah, yes, government with their vote buying programs and a box full of IOUs laying around somehwere.

 

[RightBettor]

Things change in every aspect of life. You sound like a bitter member of the entitlement generation.

I have earned everything that I have through hard work, perseverance, and dedication. Funded my own flight training and college ed. via loans and work. My daddy didn't cut me a check for school or flying. Therefore, I don't think I am entitled to a danged thing. Entitlement generation? Really?

Am I bitter? Well, okay, maybe I am bitter about a few things in life... cynical would be a better term. Who isn't? Find someone who says they are absolutely happy about everything in their life and I'll show you someone who isn't telling you the honest truth.

Acutally, I am pretty happy about most stuff. I have a lot to be thankful for. Great family life, nice house, I drive to work, I go golfing when I feel like it (well maybe that makes me angry sometimes, but I did sink a 30-40 putt the other day... that made me happy.)

That being said, there are a few things that get me going and this age 60 "it's discrimination" thing irritates me to no end.

 

[Andy]

Starting in November, pilots up to age 65 working for foreign airlines will be allowed to command flights into the United States under an agreement the government fought to block. It was adopted this year by the International Civil Aviation Organization, which regulates international air travel and is relaxing its retirement rule to allow pilots to command an aircraft until age 65, as long as the co-pilot is no older than 59.

If (as is widely expected) the FAA files an exception to the age 65 rule, there won't be any over 60 airline pilots flying in the US.

"The kid who replaces me on the seniority list at United will not have been born when I dropped bombs on Vietnam," the U.S. Navy veteran said.

WRONG! A furloughee will be recalled to replace him on the seniority list. It might be me. I was born in 1960. There are 8655 pilots on United's seniority list. Of the 8655, the youngest, 9 were born in 1976 and 17 were born in 1975. The US withdrew from Vietnam in 1975.
Typical of the ones crying for an age change; always playing fast and loose with the facts.

E. Allan Englehardt, a 37-year United veteran, said the existing rule is "gross age discrimination" and would force him to become a burden on society.

"My big problem if I am forced to retire on Jan. 29 is how am I going to support my wife and 15-year-old son," said Englehardt of Lake Bluff. "I want to send my son to college and help him reach his goals in life. Isn't that what every parent wants?".

Maybe he should've tried to sell his airplane a few years ago ... nice find BN2A. I suppose if he gets desperate, he can sell his sailboat or powerboat. Perhaps even the S class Mercedes. But never the Porsche Turbo Carrera; that's a neccessity.
This guy sounds like Klako's twin brother; crying the blues while omitting a lot of key information that would disprove his 'poverty.'

 

[RightBettor]

Typical of the ones crying for an age change; always playing fast and loose with the facts.



This guy sounds like Klako's twin brother; crying the blues while omitting a lot of key information that would disprove his 'poverty.'

Thank you Andy. Oh, and remember the media will never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[Andy]

Dr. Anthony Evans, chief of the aviation medicine section of the international aviation group, said the organization decided to increase the retirement age after a study group in 2003 determined older pilots could safely continue operating passenger planes.

"The flight safety risk of aging pilots has been reduced. People are living longer, and the ability of aviation medicine and medical science to make an assessment has improved," he said, noting incapacitation training is now mandatory.

Geez, I just did an internet search on the 'esteemed' Dr Anthony Evans. Here's a link: http://www.iaasm.org/newsletter%20july%2002.htm

Copied and pasted from above:

Dr. Anthony D.B. Evans, Full Member, United Kingdom
Current position: Deputy Chief Medical Officer, CAA, UK
-1975- Commercial Pilot, British Airways
-1978-BSc. Sports Science, Liverpool Polytechnic
-1979-MSc. Human Physiology, London University
-1984-MBChB., Glasgow University
-1985-Diploma in Geriatric Medicine, Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons
-1987-Medical Officer, UK Civil Aviation Authority
-1989-D.Av.Med., Royal College of Physicians and Surgeonsof London
-1993-Head, CAA Medical Standards and Certification Dept.
-1997-Head, CAA Medical Dept.
-2000-promoted to current position
-maintains currency as B757/767 professional pilot




Dr Evans is also a pilot for British Airways. No conflict of interest there, eh? He's got to be very close to 60, if not over 60. It's like the fox guarding the henhouse. Sweet.

 

[AA717driver]

It's not discrimination. It's an arbitrary rule. Age 65 will be an arbitrary rule.

Taking our pensions is an arbitrary act.

No one is guaranteed anything in this life. If you are 30 and in 29 years, just as you are getting ready to retire, the stock market takes a dump because the Chinese finally cash in their bonds, oh well. Them's the breaks.

Of course then YOU will want the age limit raised. TC

 

[glasspilot1]

now's not the time

My view is with thousands of pilots on furlough (over 2500 at AA alone) now is not the time to be upping the retirement age. If it has to happen, do it when the industry is in a hiring mode. It would be less painfull then.

By the way, I'm turning 50 in May. I'm seriously considering punching out then. This industry isn't what it used to be.

 

[Flybynite]

My view is with thousands of pilots on furlough (over 2500 at AA alone) now is not the time to be upping the retirement age. If it has to happen, do it when the industry is in a hiring mode. It would be less painfull then.

So if no one was on furlough it would be ok to raise the age? Its an outdated age that will change, maybe if you whine louder and more often on these message boards someone will feel sorry for you.

If you are in your thirty's look at this as a blessing. This job keeps deteriorating every year so what will it be in 20 - 25 years. Consider the changing of the age rule a good motivator to get the hell out and find a real job.

 

[Andy]

Its an outdated age that will change,

So, what age should it change to? 65? What is the safety impact of that age change? Why not make it 105? That's still discriminatory. Let's just repeal it altogether. [sarcasm on]With our highly ethical AMEs out there, I'm sure that all of the problem cases wouldn't get a new medical.[sarcasm off]

 

[Flybynite]

My final question: if this is such a horrible job that no one wants to work past 50 let alone 60, why are people lined up thousands deep just hoping to get an interview. Why would people who hate it that much even get in the industry or for that matter stay?

 

[Falconjet]

The guy is full of shiat. All he has to do is go corporate and he can fly around all day in the United States.

Yeah, I'm going to go cry to a newspaper reporter when I have to retire after 37 years when there are thousands on furlough. Selfish prick.

FJ

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Increasing the age to 65 is nothing but a scam for the guys sitting wide body left seat. It is a complete and utter windfall for them. Depending on the airline, it may mean a windfall anywhere from $800,000 - $1,000,000 plus. Guess where this money is coming from?? You guessed it, from the pockets of all those junior.

The junior pilots at the slow growth (or negative growth like AA) legacies will be especially hard hit.

If you don’t like the rule – LET YOUR CONRGRESSMAN KNOW!!!!! You can bet all these old farts are running to Capital Hill to change it in their favor. This is nothing less than abrogation of seniority. There is also another wrinkle in the bill. As Senate bill S. 65 is currently written, it will not let two pilots over the age of 60 into the same cockpit. Even Congress agrees that it is not in the best interest of safely to allow two pilots over age 60 to work the same flight. Image how that will impact operations.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

These days there is no medical reason why the retirement age cannot be raised, it is pure industry politicking at play why it still stands at 60.

Perhaps the retirement age should be set so at least you can pull in full social security benefits as soon as you leave.

 

[GuppyWN]

Marion Blakey, administrator or the Federal Aviation Administration, maintains the available safety data and latest medical research are insufficient for the agency to begin the steps necessary to change the age 60 rule. But Blakey said the FAA position on the issue has changed to "neutral."

So even if congress votes to change I'd suspect we're still a couple YEARS away from anything. BTW....... the congressional clock is ticking and there's only a month left.

Gup

 

[hateairlines]

Not raising the age is so idiotic I can't even believe people are serious about the current regulations. Other jobs far more difficult can work indefinitely.
Do you want a 39 year old brain surgeon with 44 operations or a 64 year old with 4400 operations??????????? This analogy works for almost any career.

 

[vetrider]

The line about the kid replacing him on the list not even being born when he dropped bombs on Vietnam is disingenuous at best, for it implies that a newhire steps into his widebody captain seat, which as we all know is not how it works. But what the hey, if you can throw a little bs in there to pander to the unwashed masses, why not.

If he wants to change the rule thats one thing, but he should keep the pandering bs out of it.

Actually, the guy who steps into the widebody seat he vacates will be a veteran with plenty of experience. Captain Pompous thinks he's irreplacable, what a r cranium.

Since 1959, there has always been adequate experience in the cockpits of commercial airliners with the age 60 rule in place. It is the height of pomposoty for these clowns to insinuate that their experience is so direly needed now. Are those that retired before them replacable and now they are all the sudden irreplacable? You need mud boots to wade through the pomposoty of these cry babies.

Quick, someone call John Stossel, there is a crisis in the airline industry, planes are gonna fall outa the sky because captain pompous is retiring and no one of adequate experience to replace him is anywhere to be found. This is a crisis, the FAA needs to act now!

 

[Andy]

One other note... captain englehardt is currently #9 on the UAL seniority list, with one of the eight above him on long term LOA due to illness. captain englehardt will end up retiring #7 on the seniority list.
He was hired by UAL at age 22. I hope that they recall me for a class start date on his 60th birthday, 29 Jan 07.