Chicago Express Question

[citabriapilot]

Hey All,

Any one flying for Chicago Express? I'd love to live in Chicago and be close to family, so that seems like a great choice for me. However, I can't seem to find any info on hiring minimums since their website goes into the ATA website and the only minimums/jobs they post are for the ATA jet jobs. Any info? How 'bout pay, upgrade time, etc. Thanks!

 

[banned username 2]

There is a guy on here who has been with Chicago Express about 8 months now... He is afraid he is getting furloughed soon... I don't think they'll be hiring in the foreseeable future...

 

[English]

Hey Falcon Capt,

You don't mean FlyChicaga, do you?

 

[FlyChicaga]

Here's my 2 cents: Yeah, we are worried about furlough. Honestly, the future is currently uncertain, and nobody will really throw us a bone. We just have to hang in there and wait it out, hoping for the best. Right now there are two alternatives to us. Number one is ATA buying lots of airplanes (Boeing 717s), which would mean a good future for us. We'd probably lose some guys to classes at ATA, there would be some movement in the seniority list, and our route structure would slowly change. Number two is ATA not getting the airplanes, starts selling assets, and we get sold off. Not sure what the future would bring then. Maybe furlough? Maybe the company getting picked to pieces by some other airline? Or maybe we'd get a new codeshare, get RJs, and all that.

Basically, we have no idea what is coming. It could be good, or could be bad. Sound familiar? Sure it does... it sounds like most other regionals out there. We all really don't know what the future holds. Sure, places like PSA and CHQ are getting all these 70-seaters, but they are still codesharing with what seems to be a sinking ship. Same with the United Express carriers. There have even been rumors about Comair and ASA getting sold by Delta. So this is nothing new, or unique.

I was getting concerned about it, but anymore I'm not worrying. This is just how the industry is. There are many uncertainies, and you won't really ever know what the right decision is until years down the road. I can tell you that working at Chicago Express is a blast. We have a great pilot group, and fly a really interesting airplane into a complex airspace system into MDW. We have our problems. Everyone does. But it sure seems that even with morale being low we are still usually the most upbeat crews in the hotel van to and from the airport.

We might start hiring sometime this summer, IMHO. We are losing a bunch of people to various places (both majors and regionals), so we might need a class or two coming up. Mins? Last I saw, 1500 and 200. We'll probably know a lot more in the upcoming weeks. Just keep an eye on the ATA B717 order, and you'll have a good idea about what's going to happen here. Don't expect to see RJs though. We all doubt they'll come, since ATA is looking at 100-seaters. Our market is just better suited for a turboprop... but don't rule out a new turboprop order.

Hope this helps.

 

[acapilot2003]

Flight Officer; Chicago Express Airlines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flight Officer Minimum Requirements:

1000 TT 100 Multi-Engine, ATP written, First Class Medical Certificate Preferred

2000 TT 500 Multi-Engine, ATP


Benefits:

Medical (Basic health-HMO, PPO, POS, dental-DMO/DPO, vision-VSP, long/short term disability and life insurance)
Training is paid for pilots over 1200TT.

75hr pay guarantee which starts the first day of training with Flight Safety

Aggressive upgrade period, currently 3 to 6 months.

Preferential interviewing with ATA for FO position in a B757, L-1011 or B727 with ATA.

Unlimited passes for family members and spouse on Chicago Express and ATA

Jumpseat agreements with virtually all major airlines.

Airline Training

Training is provided by FlightSafety, St. Louis, MO and San Antonio, TX.

Pilots under 1200TT are paid the full cost of training over a 2 year period of time. This is done to promote a 2 year commitment with the company for investing in a motivated lower time pilot.

Accomodations are provided and trainees are paid $1350/month. Accomodations are provided in St. Louis and San Antonio and in Chicago for new hires who live more than 60 miles from Midway.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

Help me out with this one folks...

Hi FlyChicaga-

I wanted to ask you why you were concerned about furlough. You mentioned two possibilities; one, ATA gets the 717's, and two, we don't and Express gets sold. Where did you get the idea that Express would be sold off? Is that a popular rumor, or something from the road shows, or?????
I can't imagine ATA selling off Express in any event. It would have an immediate and negative impact on ATA's financial situation.
As a former commuter pilot, I firmly believe that there should be a formal flow-thru agreement established between Express and ATA. I've read on this board, however, that some Express pilots are opposed to that idea. I can't come up with a single good reason for that position, so maybe you can help me out there too.

 

[brew3departure]

I've got one reason...

UpnDownguy,

I don't work for CEX - although I know people that do, and I haven't heard anyone officially "express" their opinion one way or another on here or otherwise.

All that being said, though, I can think of why someone would be opposed to a flow-through agreement. If the agreement were to take on the same properties as the one in place at American/Eagle or Continental/ExpressJet, then you've got a situation where it's fantastic in good times, not so great in bad times.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but if you're hearing that the pilots are opposed to it, it's probably because, like FlyChicaga said, it might be viewed as job protection for mainline guys - if they get furloughed, then, under a flow-thru agreement, they could flow back to CEX and boot the bottom folks onto the street.

Again, my disclaimer - I have no idea if this clause was even discussed, and I'm not privy to any inside information or anything like that - but there has been a fair amount of crabbing over the years about the flow-thru/flow-back type agreements at the aforementioned airlines.

Hope this helps -- personally, I think it's a great idea - but don't CEX pilots get a leg up on everyone else in the interview process anyway?

Take care,
-brew3

 

[vclean]

Flight Officer; Chicago Express Airlines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flight Officer Minimum Requirements:

1000 TT 100 Multi-Engine, ATP written, First Class Medical Certificate Preferred

2000 TT 500 Multi-Engine, ATP


Benefits:

Medical (Basic health-HMO, PPO, POS, dental-DMO/DPO, vision-VSP, long/short term disability and life insurance)
Training is paid for pilots over 1200TT.

75hr pay guarantee which starts the first day of training with Flight Safety

Aggressive upgrade period, currently 3 to 6 months.

Preferential interviewing with ATA for FO position in a B757, L-1011 or B727 with ATA.

Unlimited passes for family members and spouse on Chicago Express and ATA

Jumpseat agreements with virtually all major airlines.

Airline Training

Training is provided by FlightSafety, St. Louis, MO and San Antonio, TX.

Pilots under 1200TT are paid the full cost of training over a 2 year period of time. This is done to promote a 2 year commitment with the company for investing in a motivated lower time pilot.

Accomodations are provided and trainees are paid $1350/month. Accomodations are provided in St. Louis and San Antonio and in Chicago for new hires who live more than 60 miles from Midway.

This information is at least 3 years old. C8 does in-house training, no pft and upgrades are 2+ years.

 

[flyndesk]

I have also heard the flow thru rumors. But I don't think it will happen.

What's in it for us, the ATA pilots? C8 isn't big enough for any but a few of us to flow back into, like COEX was. I think a lot of guys wouldn't want to flow back anyway. At COEX they were flowing back into RJ's. I don't think a lot of guys would want to fly the Saab. (Nothing wrong with it, that's what guys I have been flying with say.)

I think some guys (not me again, so no flaming!) won't allow it to happen anyway- it doesn't benefit us at all, and some are still upset that C8 didn't join ALPA after 2 attempts.

We do have a scope clause, and someone specifically asked at the Road SHow if those 717's could go to C8. They won't and they can't.

Hang in there guys. You're still family. Let's see what is coming up....

 

[Dart]

CHico express is a great place to work! However.....with the current problems at mainline there is not going to be any movement right now.......that can change anytime!! With talks still ahead... the 717's are way off(maybe 6 months) Hopefully some news will come up this week.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Flight Officer; Chicago Express Airlines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flight Officer Minimum Requirements:

1000 TT 100 Multi-Engine, ATP written, First Class Medical Certificate Preferred

2000 TT 500 Multi-Engine, ATP


Benefits:

Medical (Basic health-HMO, PPO, POS, dental-DMO/DPO, vision-VSP, long/short term disability and life insurance)
Training is paid for pilots over 1200TT.

75hr pay guarantee which starts the first day of training with Flight Safety

Aggressive upgrade period, currently 3 to 6 months.

Preferential interviewing with ATA for FO position in a B757, L-1011 or B727 with ATA.

Unlimited passes for family members and spouse on Chicago Express and ATA

Jumpseat agreements with virtually all major airlines.

Airline Training

Training is provided by FlightSafety, St. Louis, MO and San Antonio, TX.

Pilots under 1200TT are paid the full cost of training over a 2 year period of time. This is done to promote a 2 year commitment with the company for investing in a motivated lower time pilot.

Accomodations are provided and trainees are paid $1350/month. Accomodations are provided in St. Louis and San Antonio and in Chicago for new hires who live more than 60 miles from Midway.

Like vclean said, that info is wrong. Minimums are 1500 ttl/100 me for external hires, and 750 ttl/50 me for internal hires. That was last time I checked (3 months ago).

Training is company paid for all hires. Pay starts your first day of training (hire date) at 65 hr guarantee until OE, then it's 75 hr guarantee. Training is done in house, not at FlightSafety. We utilize the Pan Am training center in Eagan, MN, where Mesaba does training. You are provided a $450 housing allowance after your first week.

Upgrade is 2+ years. In the past few years it was down to 18 months at one point, during an aggressive hire period.

Preferrential interviewing? Sort of.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Re: Help me out with this one folks...

You mentioned two possibilities; one, ATA gets the 717's, and two, we don't and Express gets sold. Where did you get the idea that Express would be sold off? Is that a popular rumor, or something from the road shows, or?????

The rumor about us being sold off came down the line from some people in ATA management. If the 717 deal doesn't go through, ATA might need to dump assets, and we are an asset that might be up for sale. Hence my concern for furlough, seeing as if we get sold, would we liquidate? Who would buy us? I can only forsee another airline buying our slots and ramp space at MDW. Maybe we'd get stapled, maybe not. Who knows. Right now I think it won't happen, but I hear the "F" word so much that I've started thinking about it.

I can't imagine ATA selling off Express in any event. It would have an immediate and negative impact on ATA's financial situation.

I'm not sure. I think if they did sell us, they would have the cash from the sale for a quick, positive cash flow.

As a former commuter pilot, I firmly believe that there should be a formal flow-thru agreement established between Express and ATA. I've read on this board, however, that some Express pilots are opposed to that idea. I can't come up with a single good reason for that position, so maybe you can help me out there too.

I think a lot of the fears about the flow-through stem from the experiences at American and Continental.

 

[tayas1]

Does anyone have any real info on CEX? I'm looking for pay rates, minimum days off, etc. Any help's appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[FlyChicaga]

$19.55 for FOs first year, 22.73? for second year. Min days off: 10. Last month average days off was around 13 I imagine. I've had 14+ days off since December. Right now I'm working on getting max days off. Some people want specific days off, so that might give them less days off in the process. We use a prefbid system, so it gets complicated. $1.30 per hour per diem.

 

[tayas1]

Thanks FlyChicaga. I left Mesaba almost a year ago due to family/personal reasons and I started flying a corporate Saab again this past November for a private company out of Chicago. I'm thinking about getting back in the game and wanted to find out as much as I can about getting a flying gig here at home. How many pilots do you guys have? What are captain rates like? How long did you stay on reserve?

Thanks.

 

[FlyChicaga]

We currently have about 180 pilots I believe. Maybe a bit less. Captain rates start at like 33.something an hour I believe. The payrates are out in my car, so I'll have to get them another time. I spent two months on reserve, but I got fairly lucky. There were something like 4 classes behind me, which pushed me into being a line holder (non-CDO). But right now the bottom 10-12 pilots have been on reserve for up to 3 or more months. They will be on reserve for about 6-7 months by the time we start up hiring again, IMHO. We actually had some people leave from below me on the list, so that might push me a bit closer to reserve again, but I think there will be more classes before that happens. Maybe hiring at the end of the summer. Take this all with a grain of salt, because I don't have the gouge from HR... just what I hear on the line.

Where are you flying a corporate Saab? I didn't know there were any in Chicago. Is it 135 or 91?

 

[vclean]

C8 Payrates:

Year Capt Fo
1 40.30 19.55
2 41.68 23.21
3 43.25 24.84
4 44.87 26.37
5 46.31 27.34
6 47.80 27.89
7 49.20 *
8 50.18 *
9 51.18 *
10 52.20 *
11 53.24 *

 

[tayas1]

I'm flying a Saab out of Aurora It's aircraft 36; one of only 2 with an APU. Not a bad gig at all. Just want to fly more. Thanks for all the info.

 

[flyswatter]

Make it a long story short. It is all really just a how is the lowest man on the totem pole.. We have been able to make a profit at C8, but have to bear the brunt with everyone else..

Rumors have been flying, so anybody's speculation is as good as the next.. Nothing on paper and nothing in writing..

 

[cuban8]

FlyChicaga,

There's one option you didn't consider....

...ATA gets a boat load of 717s, reworks their route structure, and finds no need for any regional flying, especially a 34 seat turboprop with a payload shortfall.....

Just theorizing.