check this PFT

[KATL8R26L]

well PFT, has hit an all time low,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I went on an interview the other day to see about getting back into sales,,, this was a copier interview,,,,,, Met with a sales manager, that said well if we higher you , even with the out side copier experance that you have , you would have to give up 50% percent of your sales to me and split the commission also.

i know that i have been out of sales for a while but to PFT for a copier sales job give me a #$%^&*(() break...................


i guiess i'll keep pounding sand,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

FLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY SAFEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[bobbysamd]

Xerox P-F-T

I usually regard a P-F-T situation as one in which (1) money must change hands from employee to employer as a condition of employment and (2) the training is applicable strictly to that employer, meaning that you do not receive a credential from the training that would be accepted elsewhere. That would be the two-prong aviation test of P-F-T . . . . . Yeah, it's P-F-T, alright.

And I thought that P-F-T was exclusive to aviation.

 

[172driver]

Of corse,,,,,,,,,,,it mit hav had sumthin 2 do with the weigh my aplacashun wuz filld out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i guess sand pounders dont do to well in teknikal jobs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Smokehouse]

for the ignorant....what is PFT?

 

[slickmagneto]

PFT

Probably Free Tomorrow

Just Kidding!

PAY FOR TRAINING

 

[Snakum]

I have seen PFT in the 90s in manufacturing, where Quality Engineers were asked to participate in ISO audits for free to get those coveted 'ISO Lead Assesor' credits, and to be asked to pay for ISO Assesor and Lead Assesor training.

Then I saw it in the IT industry where a company would give you enough classes on Visual Basic and ASP to make you dangerous and then send you to one of their contracting agencies to work for free for six months (they kept the $$) till you could pass the MCSD certification. Same thing existed for the networking guys and the database guys.

Now with eight out of every ten developers working at Home Depot (with the pilots ) the technical training companies have cut prices in half and will give you a loan for all of it by just signing your name. The sales pitch? "This year alone, 400,000 IT jobs will go unfilled." And this when one thousand developers and engineers with graduate degrees and 20 years of experience are applying for every $10 per hour desktop support job that comes down the tubes.

Reminds me of Kit Darby every time I hear it. And when I talk to these bright-eyed young IT wannabes I just have to tell them the truth ... you will spend thousands of dollars on training and then you will work at Walmart. Why not just go work at Walmart now.

So folks ... it ain't just pilots being 'suckered' by unscrupulous b@stards.

Minh

 

[enigma]

for the ignorant....what is PFT?

Just in case you really don't know, PFT is the practice of buying a flying job. The people who do so, and the companies who take advantage of those willing to do so, call it Paying For "Training" so as to camoflage the truth. PFT ran wild in the early/mid nineties when there was an oversupply of pilots.

The practice (pft) works like this; the newhire hands a check for between $10000 and $18000 to the company before he gets hired. This money supposedly represents the amount of money that his newhire training will cost the company. Sadly, the FAA dictates that all newhires receive initial training. The airline has no choice but to give the training, meaning that the PFT'r is paying for something that the company WOULD HAVE GIVEN HIM FOR FREE, had he not begged them to take his money.

Some defenders(offenders?) will try and muddy the waters by mentioning the programs that take a pilot from private to ATP, those programs are not what we are talking about. The pilots who go to those programs probably get ripped off, but they walk away with a certificate covered with ratings and priveleges. The person who PFT's (buys his job) gains nothing on his certificate.

Here is the bottom line, if the company requires money from the job candidate as the pivotal qualifier, and there is no way around paying; the job candidate just BOUGHT a job, no matter what they call it. That's PFT.

regards,
enigma

 

[1.3XVso]

play fire with fire

I've seen good results of people who went the PFT road. And to the dude who asked about "What is PFT". The war about the whole pft deal is just ignorant pilots who are jealous because they want everyone to go the CFI route. Then you got the other punks that talk like they have 10000 hrs. So in the results you get nothing. Just my ideal conclusion of everything. Just WATCH YOUR BACK!

And if you read more on other threads about PFT and GIA your gona read some F***** up $hit. Its just stupid its like being in highschool. Its a disgrace.

 

[Checks]

Sounds like you PFT'd.

Thanks for helping to ruin aviation.

Good Day.

 

[1.3XVso]

How about this I'M GOING TO PFT!!!! Sounds like your attitude and childish remarks is what ruins aviation chump.

 

[enigma]

How about this I'M GOING TO PFT!!!! Sounds like your attitude and childish remarks is what ruins aviation chump.

What goes around, comes around. Go ahead and buy a job if you want. You will probably be the first to beg for unity when your company works to divide your pilot group. In that case, you will need for others to exhibit an attitude of selflessness that you yourself do not have. Good Luck.

8N

 

[A Squared]

>>>>>I've seen good results of people who went the PFT road.

Ok, I have to ask; with the 150 hours your profile claims, what exactly is your basis for evaluating "good results"?

 

[SquirrelDog]

LOOK 1.3xVso

Here's the deal with PFT. Its like an overpriced item in a retail store. If no one comes in and buys the item eventually the managment will see this and A. lower the price of B. put it on sell. Now I know this is not directly related but in this example it would allow many more customers to by the item since it is more affordable, and just the more wealthy not get the item only.

So, if you and all other pilots decide not to pony up with that cash then those of us that A. don't have it or B. refuse to spend it, will have a fair chance at the job. And in the end Pay fo Training will go away. (In a Perfect World). The key is to weed out all these employers that require PFT, then even you won't have to shell out the cash.

I had a chance to PFT but turned the job down and everthing still turned out OK. I don't believe in it just like many. But in doing the practice of PFT you might watch out, there are some really adamit (sp) guys/gals out there interviewing pilots that are just wainting for the moment to tare a PFT'er to pieces.

my take,
Squirrldog

 

[52vincent]

OH Boy here we go again for the umteenth time.
Have we not beat this dead horse dead yet???

 

[1.3XVso]

Re: LOOK 1.3xVso

Here's the deal with PFT. Its like an overpriced item in a retail store. If no one comes in and buys the item eventually the managment will see this and A. lower the price of B. put it on sell. Now I know this is not directly related but in this example it would allow many more customers to by the item since it is more affordable, and just the more wealthy not get the item only.

So, if you and all other pilots decide not to pony up with that cash then those of us that A. don't have it or B. refuse to spend it, will have a fair chance at the job. And in the end Pay fo Training will go away. (In a Perfect World). The key is to weed out all these employers that require PFT, then even you won't have to shell out the cash.

I had a chance to PFT but turned the job down and everthing still turned out OK. I don't believe in it just like many. But in doing the practice of PFT you might watch out, there are some really adamit (sp) guys/gals out there interviewing pilots that are just wainting for the moment to tare a PFT'er to pieces.

my take,
Squirrldog

Dude I respect and admire your feedback and by that i say your professional. I understand what you mean but some fellow pilots just take it out of hand. I attended comair got my ppl there and went to gulfstream . Although i'm finishing up my multi commercial i don't mind going the CFI route but the 250 to me its just advance multi training with 121 expierience. Dude every month classes are at the fullest and get this 80 % are students from comair, flightsaftey ect. Captains from Conntinental, American go there so whats the beef? For example i read a thread about some dorks laughing at this dude that grad from GIA and they said something about" oh we laughed at his face" i mean comon thats why i'm just going ape **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** with the PFT crap. I'll prob won't do it so that these cry babies can stop crying.


squirrldog ur the man dude.

 

[Checks]

Yup, I have the bad attiude.

So you buy that first job. Then the regional you work for asks for concessions. You are making 18K and they want you to make 16K. I am sure you will agree to that. After making less than 40K for 8years you go out and add to you student loan debt by buying a type rating to make yourself competitive for XYZ LLC Airline. You get lucky and get into the hiring pool. XYZ starts charging new FO's for their training. First year pay at XYZ is 28K but you will owe the company 35K for your new hire training. But hey, whats the problem?? You love to fly so it will all be worth it. 14 years form now you break 50K in pay.

Kid, That 150 hours in the mighty C-172 has given you a weird sense of reality.

Dont be a whore

Then again, be a whore, I could care less. Too many student pilots who MUST fly an RJ to give their lives a sense of self worth.