Chautauqua

[MetroSheriff]

Metro Sheriff is apparently envious of the prosperity of another airline and is having personal problems in his own security. As with most of his posts they show a bitter attitude and his colors really show. Unfortunately people like him are in every industry. Most company's HR people weed a guy like this out before he squeeks through training. Could you imagine sitting next to this dude on a trip? Some will be bitter no matter what the situation.

ROFLMAO. Nice try Burt.

Bitter? Hardly. Perhaps you could quote some of my bitter posts to prove your point.

I love my job and my company, and I want to see DAL succeed. I happen to think we would all be better off if Majors were required to own their regional feed partners (read scope). It would give us leverage when it comes time for negotiations.

Perhaps you enjoy the reduced bargaining power afforded us by the whipsawing of alter-ego carriers. I don't. Then again, given your profile, you may just be a neophyte bridge-program whiz kid who doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm sure you are sporting wood at the prospect of a few RJs coming to town. Keep in mind that will have an affect on the carriers you are replacing/suplimenting. Not to mention, in the long run,
your own career prospects.

As I have said before, if DAL chose to buy CHQ. I would welcome the pilots with open arms, and be the first to support integration based on DOH. You see, unity is what gives us (read labor) bargaining capital and leverage. Diversification puts the boot heel on our neck. It is not a difficult theory. Perhaps they didn't cover that in your bridge program.

Might I suggest a little extra-curricular reading for you. Go pick up a copy of Flying the Line, Vol.2. I would be happy to loan you mine. When you are finished reading it, perhaps you could log back on a brag a bit more about your "prosperity".

BTW, which colors are those???

 

[Flash 7]

Amen M.S!

 

[Eric]

Hey guys. Metro, I like your avitar or whatever it's called!

I'm hoping to ask some questions and get some clarification on a few things.

If you'll look to my left, you'll see I'm fresh into this game (go easy, I'm just trying to learn), and I'm not sure where I should stand on these issues.

Metro, I'm all with you about unity being the key to bargaining power, and I too would like to see better salaries, working conditions, etc. It seems to me you should be upset with your management (even though I don't think it will help). From their perspective, this seems to make good sense. They get someone who I'm assuming is doing it cheaper and won't collaborate with the other WO's when contract negotiations come up.

To me, trying to stop management from looking for the lowest bidder seems to create an artificial environment. Management will pay you as little as possible, up to as much as they can afford depending upon how well you negotiate. It's all about cometition isn't it? If you own a Chevy, and it breaks, do you vow allegiance to Chevy and take it to the dealer (assuming no warranty), or the local mechanic that charges half of what the dealership charges?

Another thing that confuses me is when people talk about 'Our Flying'. It seems this issue exists in two forms: scope within a company and between competitors. In a deregulated environment, is there really anything such as 'Our Flying', or does it go to those who compete best on price and service?

I admit, I haven't had the chance to read 'Flying the Line, vol 1 or 2', but I plan on it. Somebody correct me if this doesn't seem right, but this is what I've gathered:

Unions are there to protect the labor groups from getting walked on. I hear talk of raising the bar, and this seems like a good thing to shoot for if the airline is profitable. It seems like some people remove themselves from the business side of things though, and forget it is a business.

Is Skywest the enemy? This is another thing that confuses me, and I hope they aren't because I really like the routes and bases. Do they cheapen the profession, or keep it from operating in an artificial enviroment?

I apologize for the lack of flow, a specific point, or even well defined questions, but at my point in the game, I don't know much. All I garner is what I read. Metro is screaming the loudest, and I wonder if this is how the majority feels.

I don't mean to attack anyone, I'm just looking for more opinions. Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not turn this into a flame war.

Thanks
Eric

 

[super ed]

Metro, Crunch,

Again I say "Those that live in glass houses should not cast stones."

The pilots at CHQ, skywest, and aca have no more power to command more from their management than you do. If you guys would get more then you wouldn't be taking my flying, just like if you worked for less CHQ wouldn't be taking the flying that isn't yours in the first place(although you think it is).

To quote you again Metro "There is no need for you to get angry, but perhaps with a little more exposure, you may begin to understand the issues a little."

You are both Hypocrites. Quit bad mouthing someone while you are doing the exact same thing. Research the facts and then get back to me Jacka$$es.

Super

 

[Brother Francis]

Captain Crunch-

The arguments you and Metro Sheriff present are valid, but no more or no less valid than the opposing arguments.

I respectfully submit, however, that the vitriolic nature of your posts tends to detract from your credibility. That's just for what it's worth.

That being said, the factual information you have posted regarding the misadventures at CHQ over the past year is essentially accurate, but is sufficiently incomplete so as to skew the description of what management did (and failed to do), what the union did (and failed to do) about it, and what the final outcome was.

Short version is that when the dust finally settled, the fired guys ended up coming out better than they would have had they been furloughed, and the out of seniority guys did better than most.

 

[temcgrew]

It sounds like CHQ is economically doing well in this economy. And It sounds like the majors are taking advantage of it (american and others). I believe there is more to the issue than "negotiating power" to the major airline that one happens to work for. metro, I am the one that does not work in the airline environment but I do understand economics and I do know a little about the airline industry. If alpa would not have used their leverage to skyrocket the payscales of the top airlines, then maybe there would be more pilot positions at the majors right now. sure in times of plenty they can afford the payroll. that is becouse they can gouge the customers with last minute fares that would be cheaper for the pax to charter my learjet!! In the lean times the large and spacious airlines cannot do it, this is why so many of you airlines guys are standing in line wanting to fly for my on demand charter company.
If chautaugua(sp?) can prosper right now, I think it is fantastic. I do not believe they need your union nazi mentality trying to control what they do when you think the airline industry revolves around paying the pilots $300 per hour. I am glad that the economicly minded people are the ones running CHQ.
Now let me say that I do understand your opinion, and that is just it....an opinion....there are always two sides to every story. Everything that I said here is my opinion and, I could be miss representing the truth becouse I am not totally educated in the manner....just my opinion. and I am sure I will read your opinion about my opinion later on...."not that there is anything wrong with that!!"

 

[MetroSheriff]

UJ,

There is nothing wrong with your opinion. It is every bit as valid as mine.

Just to clarify, however, my issue is with codeshare not payrates. I think that you are correct in that many pilot groups have focused too much on hourly rates and not enough on job security issues. It is that which I would like to see us endeavor to fix.

Some pilots are paid too much, and some pilots are paid to little. We "all" have to little job security, and codeshare is the BIGGEST threat to us all.

Thanks for the thoughtfull tone of your post.

 

[dogg]

Here is the deal: Fying does not " belong to anyone" and all airlines will do whatever it takes to be profitable ( as it is defined by that particular airline ) and to return a benefit to it's shareholders. So for pilots to run around and claim flying and claim airplanes and point fingers at each other and call each other names is just plain pointless.
This is not to say that there are not a bunch of arrogant SOB's running the various airlines (as has been neatly demonstrated by AA, UAL, DAL, USAIR etc. playing one upsmanship with each other and bankrupting their various airlines) but you all just work there, you don't own it and in general you will do as you are told or you will go work somewhere else. Contracts with pilots are one small part of the big picture for airline managers and believe me they don't expend a lot of energy on them.
So here is a thought, if you enjoy your line of work then go to work, be safe, be legal, and be efficient. Learn your trade, try to make your place of work better if you can, be happy if you still have a job. One thing you can be sure of, this is not just a repeating cycle that we are in. RJ's of whatever size can and do replace mainline jets and are not going away and the airline world is not going to go back to the rampant excess that it experienced through the 90's . The low cost carriers of today are smarter and better than they have ever been and they are going to take away and keep market share from the big guys. Fractional flying while it is expanding into excess right now, will correct and take away the cream from the big guys. So for the big guys that survive, there will be much less expansion and there will be a big push to increase the productivity of the various work groups.

Be sure of one thing, the day is coming when the majority of airline pilots fly for 50/70/90 seat operators. So I suggest that you read Flying THE LINE vol 1. It relates to the spirit of a union which is what is needed at this time. And realize that we are not all going to work for large jet majors, a lot of us will retire from the small jet majors.

All of that said, this is still the best doggone way to make a living that I can think of and for those of us who can afford to put in the time and wait for a better day or accept the compensation that we now make as adequate it is a great thing. And for all who have to go into other fields to pay for life, families etc. that is indeed a shame but it is also life and that is how it goes..... good luck all

 

[erjdriver]

Capt Crunch

you really need to learn how to spell man, and you should also add a math class (a low common denominator actually increases the product number). Since you're at it, why don't you add an anger management course.

Cheers.

 

[temcgrew]

thanks metro. I was hesitant to jump in and fuel the fire with what could be an ignorant comment. Your not so bad! talk to ya later.