Chautauqua or ASA?

[Mach92]

Year 1 52.87 50.96 -1.91
Year 2 54.45 52.49 -1.94
Year 3 56.09 54.05 -2.05
Year 4 57.77 55.68 -2.09
Year 5 59.50 57.35 -2.15
Year 6 61.29 59.07 -2.22
Year 7 62.52 60.46 -2.06



Double those pay rates at year 3 and that WHERE you both should be in your new contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whats your MEC asking for??

 

[maddog805]

And what about CHQs work rules? You keep making these rash claims that our work rules are so bad. Give me some SPECIFIC examples so they can be properly addressed. As far as I can tell, the work rules here are pretty good.

You guys must NOT be part of the group that your "great" company FIRED after 9-11. Well I have buddies that were and ask them how they feel about your beloved company. I know what your going to say, "but they called them back so that makes it OK, right?" WRONG. Any company that would do that doesn't care about their employees. If I were you I would hold out for ASA.

 

[sf340flyer]

Maddog805

Chq wasn't the only airline to fire pilots. AA also fired all new hires still in training. It took almost a week for the Union to resolve that issue. Our Union took longer to resolve the issue. I'll tell your friends the same thing I tell the rehires that I fly with, If you hate CHQ so much go somewhere else.

 

[ERJpusher]

Maddog,

I never said that the management here was not flawed. They made a poor decision after Sept. 11 to fire instead of furlough. However, the purpose of my post was not to defend the management group, but the pilot group. In this case, it was "the management, not the pilots" that made this decision.

Once again, the attack on the pilot group at CHQ holds little water. We cannot always evade the decisions of our management, just as you cannot evade yours.

I called for a specific example on our work rules. However, the only thing that has been produced so far is something that is not even outside the power of your own management. ASAs contract is worded almost verbatim to ours on reduction of work force. And as far as yours, Maddog, I couldn't even find any reference to it in Skywest's contract. Are you sure you're protected? It might be a moot point for you since you have a respectible management team, but you never know...

Maddog, it was a terrible thing that happened to our pilots, but it could have happened to any of our companies. Your company and others just chose to deal with it in a more mature way.

When our last contract went into effect, we could have never predicted the events that were to come. However, I can guarantee we will address these items in our new contract. I'm sure that everyone else will, too.

Give us some time to work out our new contract. We have been without a contract since 2001, and we are looking for the best deal we can get. I don't know who starts these rumors that we work for nothing and our work rules are horrible, but they need to do some research before they go shooting off their mouths.

Oh, yeah, compensation in our last contract and Skywest's last contract were practically identical (ERJ to CL-65). Skywest payscale revision only came out about the same time as CHQs contract expired.

 

[tedstriker]

This issue is hilarious. Maddog, I just read another post of yours about jumpseating that was very Mesa-friendly. Arent they the enemy too? My question is how did CHQ get to be the biggest problem in the industry? Our work rules are 10 times better than a lot of these companies. Whatever, I know we cant change peoples minds, Im fine with that. I think it would be nice if our pilot groups had a little more respect for eachother. And for all the Eagle pilots who keep blocking me on the radio, go ---- yourselves. Im totally serious, just go into the lav and work out some of that frustration.
By the way, I was one of the fired pilots. It sucked, but Im glad to be back with my old seniority, I work with some really outstanding people. Im about to become one of those 2nd year FOs responsible for ruining everyones lives.

 

[AWACoff]

SF340, if you believe that crew pay is the biggest hourly expense on an aircraft, you need to stop drinking management KoolAid. Secondly, the reason that places like Mesa and Chautaqua can underbid anyone is because they pay less (company wide), have less benefits, and spottier completion percentages. It takes money to have high completion rates. Aircraft have to be overly maintained. Moral has to be high enough that people give a rip. Like my grandpappy once told me...if it smells like it, looks like it, and pretty much sounds like it...it probably is. If you all wanted to get paid 25k a year, why not be assistant manager at Taco Bell? At least you can get a meal discount then...

 

[sf340flyer]

AWACoff, I was being sarcastic about the hourly rates. The crew wages are a small part of the hourly cost of an aircraft. We have prettty good benefits, and we have one of the highest completion factors out there. If you want to compare completion factors just let me know and I'll post them.

 

[ERJpusher]

Here's a response to another ignorant and undereducated pilot:

CHQ has all of the same benefits that AWAC has. We have medical, dental, life, retirement, disability, vacation, sick, and flex. In fact, we pay less for our medical than you ($15 self, $25 self and spouse, $35 family at CHQ--- $44 self, $75 self and spouse, $95 family at AWAC) and we have more coverage (100% at CHQ--- 80% at AWAC). We also have more life insurance (2X yearly earnings at CHQ--- $50000 for FOs and $75000 for CAs at AWAC). Anything else you want to say about our "poor" benefits?

How about completion percentages? We are running between 97 and 98% completion overall, which includes things that are beyond the power of the company (i.e. inclement weather, airport closures). One of our strongest marketing tools when entering codeshare agreements is our reliabilty.

I know that it takes a lot of money to maintain aircraft properly, and we do our part to allocate those funds appropriately. Our maintenance team has won the FAA Diamond Award 10 years running. I see that your maintenance team won the award back in 2000-- congratulations on that one. I can see how you think it may take more money than it actually does when your company sues the mechanics union for "illegal labor practices, slowdowns and unnecessary writeups." We don't have that problem here because our employees take pride in what we do and keep "moral" high, even while we are in contract negotiations. The customer is what this business is all about, and we still need to cater to their needs.

As far as bidding for codeshares, AWAC must not be bidding too high. You obviously were the lowest bidder on the Air Tran deal, a deal that we turned down as soon as it was offered.

I'm too old to drink Kool-aid, but I am old enough to get my facts straight before I go making random statements that I know nothing about. Don't believe everything you hear.

You seem to know a lot about the assistant manager job at Taco Bell, too.

 

[AWACoff]

On the Taco Bell coin, I worked there for 3.5 years to earn my PPL so yeah, I unfortunately know the TB thread all to well. CHQ does not have the same benefits as AWAC. There are similarities but we don't need to waste bandwidth going tit for tat (although I am really proud of the "missing, internment, prisoner or hostage of war" benefits we have...I'm joking, I hope I never have to use that portion of the contract). Suffice to say AWAC has a better overall bennies package (which obviously costs the company more). I did specifically say "less benefits" by the way, not "poor". As far as unneccasary write-ups go...if it's broken, it's broken. 121 airlines are not supposed to fix things when it's convenient. The Diamond Award isn't some magic award. It is based on a training doctrine, not actual mechanics' performance. 10 years running is still impressive and shows a commitment on your companies part. As far as the mechanics here, let's see you work on pay rates that are over 10 years old. Let's see you have high moral when a company promises one thing and does another. That's what happened to the mechanics and pilots (before my time here). Even though you doubt it, we still "take pride" in our job. On the AirTran deal, I wouldn't be too sure that we were the lowest bidder. I wasn't referring to CHQ when I mentioned on time percentage. I should have specified Mesa individually.

SF340, the semantics of this board did not allow me to understand your sarcasm. I apologize for not noticing it in the primary message. On a sidenote, did you hear the one about the guy's rooster? His friend's cat tried to eat it feet first. His friend's cat ended up with 2 feet of his cock in his friend's pu.....

 

[LAPD Airship]

This issue is hilarious. Maddog, I just read another post of yours about jumpseating that was very Mesa-friendly. Arent they the enemy too? My question is how did CHQ get to be the biggest problem in the industry? Our work rules are 10 times better than a lot of these companies. Whatever, I know we cant change peoples minds, Im fine with that. I think it would be nice if our pilot groups had a little more respect for eachother. And for all the Eagle pilots who keep blocking me on the radio, go ---- yourselves. Im totally serious, just go into the lav and work out some of that frustration.
By the way, I was one of the fired pilots. It sucked, but Im glad to be back with my old seniority, I work with some really outstanding people. Im about to become one of those 2nd year FOs responsible for ruining everyones lives.

I just thought I would chime on in here...Mesa and this supposed TA that they are muttering over is absolutely the worst thing that can happen to this industry. It is so horrifically lacking and pathetic that if it is voted in, will lower the bar further than the Comair contract failed to raise it. Closing down shop is a great threat, but how serious is he (JO) really?

Mesa IS the bottom dweller and IS the problem. Eagle ain't exactly helping things out either (16 Year Contract! WTF over) Our management is just salavating over this TA so they can come to us and say, "this is what the industry will bare." Do us all a favor, but most importantly do yourself one (MESA) - VOTE NO.

I am sititng here reading over the various contracts and CHQ isn't really that bad I suppose.

Additionally, I hear about all these guys that want 70, 90+ seat airplanes....good God people...we should all want these airplanes to be flown by Mainline carriers....I for one am happy that CAL pilots, although failing to control the numbers of our 50 seat jets, have at least scoped out 59+ seat aircraft.

This entire lack of Scope in the industry is a cancer that ALPA lacked the forethought and prowess to see coming and we all pay for that.

Does CHQ have pass privileges on Delta, or anyone else for that matter? Just curious, I don't know.

 

[maddog805]

OK.....

posted by ERJpusher:

ASAs contract is worded almost verbatim to ours on reduction of work force. And as far as yours, Maddog, I couldn't even find any reference to it in Skywest's contract. Are you sure you're protected? It might be a moot point for you since you have a respectible management team, but you never know...

Dude we don't even have a real contract. None of us are safe.


posted by Tedstriker:

This issue is hilarious. Maddog, I just read another post of yours about jumpseating that was very Mesa-friendly. Arent they the enemy too? My question is how did CHQ get to be the biggest problem in the industry?

Was that my post in reply to the friendly gesture by China?
We have to keep things civil in the jumpseat I don't care who you work for. We all use this benefit. (freedom is excluded from this statement of course)

Yes Mesa IS the "enemy". But No MORE than CHQ. You guys (I'm mainly talking management) are in the same cesspool.



posted by Tedstriker:

Our work rules are 10 times better than a lot of these companies.

Fine. This thread was about CHQ and ASA. I said hold out for ASA



posted by sf340flyer:

Chq wasn't the only airline to fire pilots. AA also fired all new hires still in training. It took almost a week for the Union to resolve that issue. Our Union took longer to resolve the issue. I'll tell your friends the same thing I tell the rehires that I fly with, If you hate CHQ so much go somewhere else.

So did United, BUT they weren't company pilots yet. They were NEWHIRES in training. As far as I know CHQ was the only company to FIRE pilots, line pilots, pilots who had been flying for the company for a while.

For the record I have NEVER made a Mesa friendly post. I have made a few "friendly" posts to individual Mesa Pilots. I have a problem with the MANAGEMENT tactics of a few airlines (SkyWest at times) I rarely will flame a pilot GROUP, but if you search my posts I'm sure you will find a few times where I have. Oh well.
Every pilot group has made stupid decisions at times, but management makes them on a daily basis.

Now I'm not making sense to myself.

 

[void]

Does CHQ have pass privileges on Delta, or anyone else for that matter? Just curious, I don't know.

Yes they do. Everybody in the company has privileges on America West as well.

American and US Airways gets a little more complicated. All office people get both AA and US privleges. Flight Crews only get the privleges if they fly for that specific airline.

An example is a CHQ pilot that flies for US Airways get to fly on US, DL and HP. A pilot that flies for AA gets AA, DL and HP. A pilot that flies for DL or HP only gets those two.

This makes sense right?

 

[FlyingDawg]

resistance-

Please shed some light on the Eagle scope arbitration. Is the ruling out yet?

 

[Skull-One]

Yeah, the ruling is out and Eagle lost. *shrug* I feel bad for them, but am I surprised? Management has been dancing circles around Eagle for years. Very sad.

As for CHQ vs. ASA, the only thing ASA has that CHQ doesn't (that's worth having), IMHO, is a Dallas base. CHQ is a great airline. Management isn't *all* that bad, but the great people I get to work with more than compensate for lower pay or shrewd signal-calling from the ivory tower.

We are going to grow, and grow fast. ASA isn't. If you are wanting to improve your quality of life quickly, this is the place to be.

CHQ isn't perfect--nobody is--but we take pride in what we do. We try *very* hard, EVERY DAY, to be on-time, safe, and fun for our pax. We take care of each other and work hard. It's a very positive culture.

As far as pay goes, where would you rather be a junior F/O right now, SWA or United?

Money ain't everything dooood.

 

[FlyingDawg]

Skull-one,

Just wait Chautauqua will have a base in DFW before you know it. According to people I've talked to in management, your (Chautauqua) flying will expand in DFW soon after Delta takes over the America West flying in CMH. Your completetion and on time looks very competitive in the Deltanet computers. The only connections doing better is Eagle and Skywest. You guys must be doing something right.

 

[Skull-One]

Gawd I hope so. I'll never have the seniority to hold it, but I sure would love to be able move back to San Antonio and commute to DFW vs. STL!

Ah...to dream...

Thanks for the kind words. We try hard. We really do.

 

[LAPD Airship]

Yes they do. Everybody in the company has privileges on America West as well.

American and US Airways gets a little more complicated. All office people get both AA and US privleges. Flight Crews only get the privleges if they fly for that specific airline.

An example is a CHQ pilot that flies for US Airways get to fly on US, DL and HP. A pilot that flies for AA gets AA, DL and HP. A pilot that flies for DL or HP only gets those two.

This makes sense right?

Hmm...interesting. I guess its better to be flying the AA stuff. How ridiculous and what a pain that must be to have the company deal with. What about jumpseat priv's on the mainline carriers?

Saw a CHQ E145 in SDF not long ago...looks very nice in the Delta colors.

 

[Junioriuie]

Hmm...interesting. I guess its better to be flying the AA stuff.

Why is that? From my experience trying to travel on AA is a pain in the &@#. I personally love the Airways benefits and wouldn't trade 'em for anything.